Aug 282013
 

esv_studybibleESV, NIV, NASB, KJV, HSB, NKJV,NLT, RSV or another from the alphabet soup?

Study bible or simple bible?

Why did you choose that one?

 

 

Bonus question: There is a big controversy in some quarters over the new ESV Gospel Transformation Study Bible…because the some of the articles were written by women…who will thus be teaching the men who read it.

Is this an issue for you?

I use the ESV Study Bible…and the reason for that is because J.I. Packer was the editor for all the notes.

That’s the whole reason…all of these bibles are good translations of the Scriptures.

 

  152 Responses to “Participation Required: Bible Versions”

  1. I use a NKJV Bible for reading and my notes, but when I look up verses online, I usually go to ESV. I need to get me one of those.

  2. NKJV to teach, ESV for reading, NEB for an alternate…All are reference only. No study bibles. I like to get to Genesis 1 right away, though I was given a NKJV study bible recently, so I might use that one publically. I love evangelicalbible.com, which has furnished me with some great Bibles that I plan to read for the rest of my life and then give away to my kids, which will be clean but well used!

  3. ESV for me, simply because the church I was in when it was released required it. I read it now because I like it, and it’s familiar.

    A few years ago, I received a beautiful, expensive ESV study Bible as a gift from my kids. It looks great on my shelf, but I never open it. I can’t read the small print, and I don’t do that kind of study anymore. Don’t tell my kids…

  4. Jim,

    I need a large print ESV Study Bible…but I’d need a hand truck to carry it in.

  5. fjsan,

    Great link…
    http://evangelicalbible.com

  6. I prefer NKJV for public reading, ESV for private. When I first read ESV it was like a kind of freshness like when I first read NIV in Old Testament. I use NKJV in pulpit because I really like that it leaves in stuff like, “See here is water, what hinders me to be baptized?’ ‘If you believe with all your heart, you may.” I don’t like dismissing the TR too quickly.

  7. NKJV for my teaching & personal study, though I regularly cross-reference NASB, ESV, HCSB, KJV, NIV(84), and NET.

    For my primary Bible, I love my simple wide-margin. (Splurged on a Cambridge goatskin.) But I also love the notes from the ESV study, Zondervan study, & HCSB study, and I consult those along with my commentaries on a regular basis.

    Why the NKJV? (1) I’m a majority-text/byzantine priority kind of guy, (2) I’ve studied from it the longest & it’s the most familiar to me.

    The Transformation Study Bible isn’t a big deal to me. It’s one of hundreds of other “new” English-language study Bibles, some of which I’d agree with, and others with which I wouldn’t. I don’t see any reason to get stressed about this one.

    I’d actually be pleased as punch to see all the publishing companies which dedicate so much time and money to new English translations & new English study editions to use all of it on other languages instead. We have enough in English; the rest of the world needs something, too. Even beyond the many languages around the world that don’t yet have a single translation…just try to find too many study helps in languages other than English. I’d love to see some more materials translated into Spanish (if not Chinese, Hindi, etc. of which there are *billions* of speakers).

  8. On your other question…Karen Jobes is the author of the 1 Peter commentary within the Baker Exegetical Series. I bought it, used it, was edified and educated by it, and didn’t hesitate to do so in the least.

  9. Have loved the NASB for decades, have several and now attend a church that teaches from it (a Reformed church,btw, but Pastor refs to ESV). I have a comfy old NIV that was my mom’s, thus I ‘love’ it…. and open it to browse, knowing it’s missing important verses.
    I’ve never been able to ‘get a feel for’ the NKJV…. Most of my memory verses are either KJV or NASB. Totally enjoy blueletterbible site to peruse various translations.
    Study Bibles are too big and not ‘comfy’ for me 🙂 (can’t read them in bed…too big)…:-)

  10. AMP for just about everything. It was written by a woman, so there’s that…

  11. Simple NASB. I use the exact same one every time, because I remember where verses are visually on the page better than I do references. So, page 379, is exactly the same in my last 4 Bibles.

  12. None of the above.

  13. I grew up on the NIV but found later into high school that I like the NASB better. I now regularly use the ESV because of the study bible and I find it similar in style to the NASB.

  14. as an old layman, not a teacher, i am a firm believer in the principle that we need teachers – we need people who are disciplined scholars proficient in both the original languages and English (those of us who speak that language)- BUT our primary teacher is God the Holy Spirit, Himself – we can’t dismiss the personal need to be prayerful and honest with Him as we approach the Word (this isn’t easy as, whether we like it or not, we almost always come to study the Word with some agenda or other foremost in our consciousness)
    i read every morning from a New Scoffield Reference Bible that i received years ago – an old friend – but studying requires more than thata and, thanks to Michael, i am most apt to pick up, with effort, my ESV for that purpose…
    Amen to Pastor Tim’s observation: “I’d actually be pleased as punch to see all the publishing companies which dedicate so much time and money to new English translations & new English study editions to use all of it on other languages instead.”

  15. Well, since its required:

    I read the KJV, NKJV, ESV, NASB, HCSB, NET , the interlinears and the English translation of the LXX that I use on Logos…… but not necessarily in that order. I have a several study Bibles but I rarely use them.

  16. A Bible should have:

    The Apocrypha
    The Septuagint translation of the Old Testament
    No “Protestantisms” in the translation, for example, no swapping out the word “tradition” and replacing it with the word “teachings”

    As far as notes, Protestant study Bibles would not be acceptable.
    References to the writings of the Holy Fathers is a plus.

    Icon illustrations are a nice touch.

  17. The Orthodox Study Bible, which I have and read regularly, is a subject of controversy in Ortholandia. The very idea of a study Bible is problematic. Read all of St. Basil’s writings, not just a snippet as a proof text, would be the EO ideal for studying a subject. The notes in the Orthodox Study Bible ring false to many an ear- they sound too much like they are trying to convert someone to the Orthodox world view, rather than matter-of-factly explaining a passage. But, it does have the Septuagint version of the OT and some very nice icon prints plus the lectionary and some other useful info. It uses the NKJV for the New Testament, which could be worse but could also be better.

    For the New Testament, I prefer the two-volume New Testament translation from the Holy Apostles Convent. The footnotes are all references to writings of the Holy Fathers.

  18. I use the ESV and The Lutheran Study Bible which I wish wasn’t called that because I think it puts people off to some of the great notes and Church Father quotes.

  19. Like Patrick, I use the Lutheran Study Bible. The notes contain Church Father sources and the Lutheran Confessions.

    http://www.cph.org/p-11334-the-lutheran-study-bible-hardback.aspx?SearchTerm=the%20lutheran%20study%20bible

    You can also get the Apocrypha

    http://www.cph.org/p-19305-the-apocrypha-the-lutheran-edition-with-notes.aspx

  20. If the premise holds that God’s “word” is perfect, infallible, inerrant…and that not one jot nor one tittle can be wrong and not one jot nor one tittle can be added to or subtracted from God’s “word”…then which version/translation of the bible is God’s true correct word…and which have added or deleted jots and tittles and are in error?

  21. In fact, most bible versions omit a whole passage from the book of Mark…and many use differing names for the same stories (one version says it was one person, another version says it’s another person altogether) and many use different words that change entire meanings, etc.

  22. The same one that Jesus reads, the NKJV. Thompson Chain Reference is good for me. I thought about switching to ESV but don’t know why. About 6 mos. ago I went to the site that Michael recommended, evangelicalbible.com and bought a very nice Cambridge Wide Margin for teaching on Sunday’s and I love it.

  23. RB,
    Where do you get this stuff? I don’t think that there is anyone who claims that the translations are 100% correct.

    See, you make up false comparison’s to fit your argument. You are a walking non sensible fallacy.
    All who have led RB to believe that you think translation are error free, please raise your hands.

  24. MLD, ironically, you support my point…I am pointing out the Fallacy that is common in Evangelicalism…especially among Fundamentalists/Literalists who appeal to the “Jot and Tittle” verses

  25. niv. got it free since it was a blem. I’m not sophisticated enough to fuss over the supposed controversies…my platter is full enough attempting to integrate my life into conformity with what my bible clearly states. I’m sucking enough on that front to give everything else a pass.

  26. If I had to chose, it would probably be the KJV because it calls the male sex organ the “privy member”…which I find absolutely hilarious 😆

  27. I primarily use the ESV. I bought an ESV Study Bible, but mainly use the online version of that.
    I also have an NLT, NASB, NIV, and a KJV.

    I remember the first bible I ever owned, a KJV/NIV parallel.
    ________
    Wow, RB, you are sort of being a privy member on here today.

  28. But then again, it would be foolish to think that you would ever follow Wheaton’s Law.

  29. RB,
    You still have it wrong. Jesus spoke of the jot and title verses . – he knows what they are… we may not.

  30. TIL “Wheaton’s Law, and the value of arcane language when referencing body parts in polite company.

    If only Thabiti Anyabwile had rephrased his misspelling of said “thing” it would have been appropriately entertaining.

  31. Bible version?
    The one that communicates clearly to the person I am sharing with. Generally I avoid arcane Olde English. There should be no “in other words” when the words are plain.
    paraphrases which are faithful to context are great.

  32. ISV, ESV, and the NT Wright Kingdom NT

    As for the ‘big controversy’ …irrelevant drivel.

  33. ESL Bible – english as a second language bible. My first bible was missing the 2nd half and at that, we only read and studied the first five books of the OT.

  34. Bible reading is like prayer: Christians spend a lot of time talking about doing it, but not much time doing it.

    Or, put another way: More time feeling guilty about not doing it than doing it.

  35. The ESV has been my steady companion for the last 4 years.The NASB…NkJV are a close second.The NLT is a good side reader.

  36. Study bible or simple bible?
    -Simple 1611 KJV with Apocrypha

    Why did you choose that one?

    -Initially because I was raised on the KJV (calvary chapel costa mesa), but later because I’m an ‘old soul’ and prefer the archaic English. I’m very much a “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” type of a guy.

    [Women teaching] Is this an issue for you?

    -Depends. Are they ‘reading the scriptures’ or ‘giving me their opinion’? I’m not interested in their opinions, but don’t much care who is ‘reading’ the scriptures to me.

  37. crownedone1,

    They are scholars writing for the churches edification.
    Why wouldn’t you be interested in that?

  38. Usually, if you look at the translation committee of the different bibles you’ll see a bunch of names who are much better qualified to interpret Hebrew and Greek than I am. In that sense, I usually stay away from the one-man translations, as it would seem easier for bias to creep in. My main bible is HCSB because it is completely readable…and I’m baptist.

    I do sometimes check it against KJV, ESV, and NIV.

    I have the ESV study bible but I don’t reference the notes often. I spend so much time in full commentaries that I don’t find much use in them. It is funny to me though, when I’ve studied for a week, multiple translations, several commentaries, and I’ve got a good grasp on what I’m gonna say. Then one of my students will say “My study bible says…” and read a few sentences which basically teaches my whole lesson 🙂 Coulda saved a lot of time.

  39. Yes, all of the above.
    I’m constantly adapting recommendations as more and more folks I work with have great difficulties with reading. For some I’ve worked with, the NLT was even a bit wordy, so I’ll try and use the CEV. I always hope to transition to ‘sturdier’ translations, but I’ve found that hasn’t happened much. Literacy is once again a huge challenge for encouraging people in the faith.
    My own favorite is my NIV Disciple’s Study Bible that my Dad gave me for my 18th birthday. It’s the approved 1984 translation. The one they’re trying to obliterate from the planet. Holman is pretty close to that version. Most of my memory verses are memorized in that version, cause I grew up with NIV, that’s why I still use it.

  40. Michael @ 38 “They are scholars writing for the churches edification. Why wouldn’t you be interested in that?”

    Because I studied so many ‘opinions’ in a previous life, and always found myself returning to the Word to verify everything they said. Which then begged the question, ‘why didn’t I go to the Word to begin with and bypass the third parties?’

    And thus started my journey of sola scriptura.

    Could there be beneficial commentary out there? Sure, but I have found that Jesus Christ has filled my mental library with so much of Him, that I don’t have any room or time for commentaries.

    I know that’s not good for the ‘business’ side of Christianity…but it has been extremely beneficial to the health of my soul.

  41. “Sure, but I have found that Jesus Christ has filled my mental library with so much of Him, that I don’t have any room or time for commentaries.”

    Amazing.

    Then you should be able to solve every controversy in the history of the church with your Jesus filled mind.

    I look forward to your commentary when published.

  42. Michael @ 42 “Then you should be able to solve every controversy in the history of the church”

    Why this focus on ‘me’? God has all the answers, yes

    “with your Jesus filled mind.”

    I rebuke your insult Michael.

    Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

    “I look forward to your commentary when published.”

    That will never be forthcoming, I would instead defer you to the Word of God.

  43. ‘why didn’t I go to the Word to begin with and bypass the third parties?’
    —————————————————–
    Not trying to be snarky, but unless you read directly from Hebrew and Greek (and a little Aramaic thrown in) – aren’t you reading from third parties right out of the gate?

    You see my point? The translation committees do (often) make decisions as to best translations from the original languages. Not in some sinister or agenda-driven way, but just because it is the nature of language translation.

  44. LOL!

    You’re a hoot crownedone1.

    Actually, you’re not.
    You’re every bit the self confident idolater that you accuse another member of this community of being.
    You just cloak your nonsense in holy sounding horses… to play to the painfully “orthodox” among us.
    Unless you’re reading from the original Greek or Hebrew you are consulting experts whether you like it or not…

  45. Steve @ 44 “Not trying to be snarky, but unless you read directly from Hebrew and Greek (and a little Aramaic thrown in) – aren’t you reading from third parties right out of the gate?”

    It is an honest question. I do some translation from time to time, but I am speaking more so of extra-biblical opinion of an existing English text.

    I haven’t seen a bible translation mess up John 3:16, Love God, Love your neighbor as yourself, and love your enemies yet, so I do not worry too much about mistranslation. Seems that even if someone forgot to add a comma, or dot an I, God ensured the truth was intact.

  46. @crownedone1 Do you have any Biblical text(in context) to prove that you have a “Jesus filled”mind that is completely unstained from you? Oh sure, we have the mind of Christ and we have the eyes of our understanding open etc., but where do you get the idea that NONE of the sinful Adam nature is lurking in your mind that could possibly lead you off into false doctrine?

    Also, what if your conclusion on a text differs from those from Church history? Are they wrong? How would you know?

    Sola Scriptura doesn’t mean “Bible Only” it means “Bible Alone” (meaning free from Popes, councils etc. determining the meaning of a text as well as so-called “ex-Cathedra” experiences or “words” being put to the level of Scripture.)

    And how about this, I rebuke your rebuke of Michael, so there!

  47. The only difference between Steve and I is that I was intending to be snarky.

  48. “but where do you get the idea that NONE of the sinful Adam nature is lurking in your mind that could possibly lead you off into false doctrine?

    Also, what if your conclusion on a text differs from those from Church history? Are they wrong? How would you know?”

    Well done, Patrick!

  49. Also @crownedone1 “Love God, love neighbor” isn’t the Gospel and left to your natural(even “Jesus-filled” mind) would be all that you could understand and do to be accepted by God.

    The Gospel is outside of us and is alien to us. Therefore it must be preached and heard from the Word(not saying you don’t believe this).

    Jesus is not to be found inside of us to for proof of our faith. He is outside of us in bread and wine, baptism, and His Word.

    But you already know that because you have a “Jesus-filled” mind 😉

  50. Here’s another honest question crownedone1

    Would you be willing to read a book or take a college course on the Roman Empire around the 1st century? Purely from the politics, culture, economics, chief cities and so forth – no direct connection to Scripture or Christ – just a history class.

    Because that is where I find commentaries of most value – in drawing connections in areas that I may not know about, not just history but maybe references to some Jewish Targum citation or something that Paul might be working off of. These are things I can’t just check-out with the Bible itself.

    And for the record, though I disagree with your take on commentaries, there is no comparison between what you are saying about trusting the entire counsel of Scripture and the Holy Spirit, and the heresy that continues to be espoused around the interwebs.

    Thinking one has the sole right interpretation of a Scripture is far different than one rejecting Scripture.

  51. Ricky Bobby wrote @ # 27,

    If I had to chose, it would probably be the KJV because it calls the male sex organ the “privy member”…which I find absolutely hilarious…

    You know what’s also hilarious? Way back in the day I went to a fundamentalist church that was KJV only. Even so, it was always Balaam’s donkey that spoke and it was also the rooster that crowed after Peter’s denial of the Lord, never what the Elizabethan text called for. It was funny to watch them squirm over the King James renderings.

  52. crownedone1 makes a good point.
    All these translations were made so we didn’t have to know greek or hebrew.
    It reminds me of how at one time the bible was in Latin and only known to a few.

    “If God spare my life, ere many yeares I wyl cause a boy that driveth the plough to know more of the Scripture, than he doust.”~William Tynedale

    Not pointing any fingers and not putting down scholars….just sayin’.

  53. The Tynedale quote was about the pope.

  54. Ironically, and at present day, I use Bullinger’s Companion Bible. It contains a wealth of scholarship in both the margins and the appendices which is found nowhere else for the English reader and layman.

  55. Derek,

    The basic doctrines of Scripture are so clear in the Scriptures that a literate child can understand them.
    If all one desires to attain to is that level of understanding, then me and my Bible is probably sufficient.
    For those who want to go deeper, teachers are needed…and God has put many fine ones in the Body over the years.
    There is not a day that goes by that I don’t learn something new or see things from a different angle…without ever compromising on those fundamental first understandings.
    That’s what keeps me going…and makes me truly love the gift of the Scriptures.

  56. I understand, but you would think that with all that deep knowledge some of you would be a bit less snarky than you are to crownedone.
    Snark looks like…well I mentioned it on another thread this week, but won’t bring it up again. Lets just say it sure doesn’t shine the light of Christ, just looks like pride.

  57. Patrick @ 47 “Do you have any Biblical text(in context) to prove that you have a “Jesus filled”mind that is completely unstained from you?”

    Of course, the bible in its entirety. I’m going to keep reading it over and over until I die. Parts that are unclear in this life will be cleared up in the next, that way I don’t have to entertain guesses (which is my scholarly preference).

  58. Didn’t even need a commentary to see that. 😉

  59. Patrick @ 47 continued – “Also, what if your conclusion on a text differs from those from Church history? Are they wrong? How would you know?”

    Which facet of church history? Even church fathers don’t agree with each other.

    “Sola Scriptura doesn’t mean “Bible Only” it means “Bible Alone” (meaning free from Popes, councils etc. determining the meaning of a text as well as so-called “ex-Cathedra” experiences or “words” being put to the level of Scripture.)”

    I am aware of its full meaning.

  60. Derek,

    Over on another blog, crownedone1 is roasting my friend the Gman.
    I don’t agree with G about much biblically, but I love his heart and his journey is still in progress.
    I’m not going to post over there…but I’m going to give the pious crownedone1a taste of his own medicine.

  61. @crownedone1 You said,

    “Of course, the bible in its entirety. I’m going to keep reading it over and over until I die.”

    There is not a single Jehovah’s Witness or Mormon who couldn’t say the same thing.

    So, since you ONLY read the Bible, you must not believe in the Trinity, or women taking communion, or any other doctrines/terms that aren’t expressed in Scripture?

    I mean if it isn’t in the Bible, it must not be true and the Historic Christian faith, doctrine, and practice must be all wrong if it looks to any kind of tradition.

    You are aware that there have been 1000+ years of Christian teaching from which we find both truth and heresy?

  62. I am sure G can defend himself. Let the owner of the other blog take care of that or not. We all know not.
    We all know it is a free for all where you speak and not the safest of places for some believers right now.
    You go on there you will take your lumps, since it has been allowed, nay encouraged, to be a warzone by the owner.
    Heck, G is stealing my lines. He will be fine.

  63. @crownedone1 The Church Fathers agree on much more than people give them credit for. The vast majority of them upheld Christ and His substitute as the ransom for sin, they upheld baptism(infant and adult) as salvific, they upheld that Christ’s body and blood are in the bread and wine etc.

    Of course there were some wingnuts and for the most part Church Councils were held to deal with these issues. From these we get things like the Nicene, Apostle’s, and Athanasian Creeds which are a wonderful summation of the Christian Faith taken from Scripture.

    As for my question, how do you test what is being “revealed” to your Jesus-mind? How do you know it hasn’t been condemned as heresy by a legit Council already? For example, if you believe that man has the ability to “respond” to God’s call in himself, that heresy(semi-Pelagianism) has already been condemned.

    Or if your Jesus-mind told you that Jesus was created by the Father, that heresy was condemned as well(see Arianism).

    But how would you know?

  64. Patrick #62
    Unfair comparison, The JW’s have a purposefully distorted translation of the bible and the Mormons have all kinds of extra stuff.
    The KJV is in no way in the league with that.

  65. Derek, I know that, but I’m trying to make the point that just reading the Bible alone isn’t a strictly Christian practice.

    There have been lots of wackos who just read their Bible and became convinced of things that were heretical or untrue.

    I don’t think it’s an unfair comparison. But I do appreciate you calling me on it 🙂

  66. The basic doctrines of Scripture are so clear in the Scriptures that a literate child can understand them
    ————————————–
    Agreed. And there is a word the Church has used for centuries for those who deny the basic doctrines of Scripture that are so easily read and understood by even a literate child.

    And probably a few choice words for such a one that encourages others to do the same in their time of wounding when most vulnerable.

    Since YOU chose to mention “the other blog’, I doubt that Q, Hannah, TC, Uriah, and of course CrownedOne1 are exactly in my fan club.

    But they ARE fighting heresy over there. Not just picking on someone in this community.

    And I for one am glad to see it.

  67. Well, about half of them think I’m a heretic too, so I’ll pass on encouraging them to drag G to the brush pile for burning.

  68. No one forced G to post there.
    You sign up to go to the warzone, don’t fuss if war type stuff happens.
    I understand the need to defend someone over there, but that place is a free for all now.
    No rules, no moderation.
    The author posts his views and then sits back and writes notes for his thesis on the outcome.
    It is like some big experiment that has been left untended and has grown wild.

  69. You know, the first couple of times I went over there to defend someone, I felt a little bad when someone said said that was a place of healing for CC people.
    Well, not anymore. The last article on CC flopped, because it was CC versus the government. Not exactly a good guy that everyone is rooting for there.
    I suggest someone who really cares about CC abuse there start up a real blog on the topic so all the regulars can have someplace to go to without having to talk about how wrong the bible is all the time.

  70. What goes on over there is none of my concern…except for the fact that some of the same folk post over here or send me emails about the folks who post here.

    The Gospel that any child can understand is this…
    God became flesh and dwelt among us.
    He died for our sins and rose again.
    He will return someday to judge the quick and the dead.
    If you trust in Him for the forgiveness of your sins, you too will rise again.

    Now, if you believe those simple doctrines we are in fellowship…even though we may disagree vehemently about a hundred other things.
    Some of those things I will consider very important.
    That doesn’t break our fellowship in the Spirit.

    I would rather that doubters and skeptics and those whose doctrine is aberrant in my opinion hang out with me rather then be cast out on their own for their differences.

  71. Obviously it is your concern or you wouldn’t have brought it up.

  72. Derek,

    My concern was for my friend, not for anything else that happens there.
    It’s not my blog and frankly, I don’t enjoy it when I’m talked about there and I extend the same respect I hope for myself.
    You seem to want to take an antagonistic stance toward anything I write these days, so I’ll work to make myself clearer in my communication.

  73. Michael,
    Sorry, but just because I don’t give a big thumbs up to every book recommendation you hand out is not being antagonistic.
    I have enjoyed many books you have put recommended.
    Sorry, but you yourself seemed in a sour mood that day also, as evidenced by the fact that the whole things I think was nearly dedicated to how much you didn’t like the whole Harvest Crusade thing. That added to not as many people liking the book recommendation, also factored in I am sure.
    I myself got tired of how many times I was told that I was unfairly judging the author for snippets, when you unfairly judged Phil Robertson based on one quote.
    I admit I have my pissy days and that was one of them, but dang can no one else ever admit they are wrong on here. Or is it just pile on time like on “the other blog”?
    Crownedone only comments a little here, but I would think pastors could have a little more than snark for him every time he shows up?
    Live some of this head knowledge you have if you want to convince someone they need a bit more head knowledge themselves.

  74. And speaking of Phil Robertson, the new Duck Dynasty comes on in 30 mins….Happy, happy, happy

  75. Derek,

    I didn’t “judge’ anyone.
    I didn’t like the quote…it might be a hoot in the context of a TV show, but not in the context of an evangelistic outreach.
    Celebrity driven religion is the biggest issue in the church today in my opinion…and to me this was just another example of it.
    I’ll let those I live with decide whether or not I live my “head knowledge”…they may have a similar opinion as you.
    I’m more than ok with people not liking the book, it was “head knowledge” that has impacted my heart in a big way.
    It may do so for others as well.
    If not, God knows I’ve got my hands full trying to live what I think I’ve learned.
    In the meantime, I’m glad you’re here and hope you continue to speak your mind.

  76. I love Duck Dynasty. I especially love Uncle Si.

  77. Obviously, I have been misunderstood.
    I wasn’t trying to make fun of “head knowledge” as your quotes indicate.
    You know, what I meant by head knowledge was that what you have learned from the bible and study would possibly lead you to being not as snarky (read mean) in application towards people like crownedone.
    You know show a bit more love. I used to think that pastors would be a bit better about this, (not perfect just better) I have been disabused of that.
    No one would want to dig a bit deeper in commentaries if the person telling them to do it responds on the attack first off.
    Anyone who just reads the NT, without commentaries can figure out that snark is sinful.
    Instead, RB’s warzone extends here also.
    I guess Jesus said “Be snarky to those who attack your friends”
    Nope, can’t find that in there.
    He did say ““But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.”

  78. I think there is an Uncle Si in every family.

  79. I don’t think Paul would have survived the current climate of disdain for celebrity preachers. Sort of sad, since all celebrities are not bad.

  80. Michael,
    Thank you for your kindness toward me

  81. (|o)====::: @ # 81,

    Kindness trumps doctrinal correctness in my book any day of the week and six ways to Sunday.

  82. Michael,

    I guess I’ll be the one to bite on your bonus question regarding The ESV Gospel Transformation Study Bible. Some of the most moving things I’ve ever heard in Christian writing were done by women. And what’s more, I think that Christendom could profit greatly by having more women in the pulpit.

  83. Muff, my tribe would not agree. I choose to leave it to the Lord. He can do as He pleases. I have absolutely no interest in the pulpit, but I have seen what you see.

  84. I knew an elderly missionary lady in the Philippines who went there to teach children. Over the years the children grew into men and women. This elderly lady continued to disciple these young men and women. One day a visiting short term mission team came. The pastor from the USA short term team gently corrected the missionary lady and told her that she should not be teaching and discipling these young men. Her reply was something like this” “Oh, thank you!! As soon as you move here and begin to disciple them, I will stop. When can I expect you?” Needless to say, he didn’t move there and she continued her ministry of loving Jesus and loving others, and teaching the precious word of God to whoever would listen.

  85. RE: Nonnie @ # 84 & 85,

    It’s not important that our tribes agree on all the jots & tittles. We can peacefully coexist in spite of ourselves when we unite on the basis of a common and shared humanity. I believe that what’s important is that we work toward building a better world for all.

  86. I guess all those pictures that G is posting on the other blog are now evidence for G’s persecution.

    As I said on the other blog.
    G is like the peasant in Monty Python and the Holy Grail yelling, “Help, help, I’m being repressed! Come and see the violence inherent in the system!” while making sure to cause the events that lead to his “seeming” persecution.

    Cry me a river.

  87. No, Derek, it’s called “humor”.

  88. I claim no persecution. Persecution for ones faith is what is experienced in North Korea, Egypt…

    there is a huge disconnect between the kind of birds Jesus told us to be like

  89. I call BS, the pictures messages and the whole circling for the kill thing made it obvious.
    Poor little G.

  90. Derek,
    I wish you only the best, only goodness, only a day filled with wonder, excitement, realization, answered prayer, phone calls from those you’ve missed, the answer to the troubling problem that has been nagging you, assurance of continued and steady employment, recognition where there has been none, renewed love, and an abiding sense of Gods presence at every moment of your consciousness.

  91. I would actually call what you are doing over there, not humor, but a violation of Wheaton’s Law.
    I think I already said something about that recently to someone else.

  92. Im definitely NOT being a d*ck, just being graphically inclined.

  93. Derek
    if you have to say something about what someone is posting “on the other blog” (when did it start getting called that anyway?)
    Then, I think you should say it over there…not over here.

  94. The curator here brought it up first on this thread,
    Sorry London, but I say, No. No more to ignoring all this crap.
    The main character over there brings his crap over here all the time.
    Don’t invite the warlord to your house and not expect the war won’t spill over.

  95. I’ll make it a rule.
    I’m tired of the spillover and I’m tired of being in a crossfire.
    If you want to comment on something over there, say it over there.

  96. It will happen again if not me, then something RB says will cause a furor from someone else.
    Wanna make bets on how long? Probably the next thread.

  97. But it won’t be me. We are gonna see the common factor in action.

  98. I only have one blog that I’m responsible for.
    That’s this one.
    This is the only one I can worry about.
    They have said awful things about me over there for a long time and I don’t answer…it’s their blog and their right to say what they think.
    Having conflict is pointless…I have my hands full writing here.

  99. I’m going to say something directly to those of you who are going back and forth between the Phoenix Preacher blog and CalvaryChapelAbuse blog.

    If you have a problem with the concept of freedom of association and are demanding that either Alex or Michael “take a stand” or “speak out against ( |o )====::: ! ” then you are indeed small minded.

    I make no apologies for choosing to focus on The4Gospels because much of the rest of it appears to conflict with what Jesus says & does and adds a whole lot of stuff that He didn’t say or care about.

    I make no apologies for admitting publicly that I take a “liberal” approach to many parts of the bible. It simply makes more sense to me.

    But I make a huge apology for thinking that you who I am addressing this to are capable of being mature enough to leave our mutual friendships out of any disagreements we have here or there.

    I continue in two unique friendships with Michael and with Alex because each is a patient and forthright man who is living true to their differing beliefs and willing to be cordial with me knowing full well there are things we see differently. Each of you who are taking these men to task are petty, small minded and a laughingstock to any casual observer outside of our faith.

    Honor each by ending your silly demands that each of them speak out against me. It only proves how shallow, vacuous and ineffective each of you are in trying to persuade based solely on a respectful dialog with anyone who is in a different place in their spiritual journey or has reasons for their beliefs.

  100. “If you have a problem with the concept of freedom of association and are demanding that either Alex or Michael “take a stand” or “speak out against ( |o )====::: ! ” then you are indeed small minded.”

    I’m sorry did I ever advocate any of this, or did I just point out the fact that you weren’t poor innocent G being persecuted by the Inquisition. So it is “repressing” you to say things like that. See, told you so.

    I never called for Michael to speak out against you. I just made sure that people here knew that you weren’t going over there and being beaten up on.

    See, look at all the words you use in that paragraph that support the fact that this is all about G and his persecution complex.

    And that is all I have to say on that matter.

  101. In general, I’m banned from typing the name of the other blogger. Don’t know if I’m the only one.

    My problem has never been with G, but with the other guy. (If I type his name, it gets moderated). HE is not nice or patient. If you share a weakness with him, he attacks it over and over again. G doesn’t see it, but that is what he has done at the other blog. A lot of the people came there very vulnerable, clinging to a shred of faith. The other guy sucked them in when he though they could help, but now he just tries to destroy their faith over and over. Its a terrible thing for a person to do. I can’t condemn those actions enough.

    MIchael has been a friend for a few years, and that won’t change on my end. However, I’ve to learn that you can’t have Michael without the other guy. It’s a package deal, and I don’t want the other guy.

    Guess my only choice is to move on?

  102. I have no “persecution complex”. Images of the Monty Python Spanish Inquisition I found were contextual attempts at humor to get twits like you to lighten up and see how silly and absurd you sound when you dog someone for their lack of orthodoxy.

    There is no “persecution” when someone knows full well that standing up to bullies will end up in fists.

    So, Derek, will you now respect Michael and end your back and forth?

  103. Josh,
    Your other choice is to patiently endure, keep reaching out to find a way to coexist, if you find grace to do so.

  104. I guess that’s the thing G. If this guy lived in my neighborhood, there would be obvious reasons for enduring the abuse and trying to make peace. If this guy is online, I could just avoid places where he hangs out.

    Furthermore, is your statement to Derek an example of the patient coexistence that you are talking about for me?

  105. It’s part of the dialog to explain the dynamic. It’s patient for me right now because I could use far more insulting and strident language but I am choosing the best I can.

    I use the term “twit” because it makes me think of John Cleese doing funny walks whilst wearing a business suit and bowler, and I am a self admitted twit.

  106. ” It’s patient for me right now because I could use far more insulting and strident language but I am choosing the best I can.”

    That being the standard, then we are all being very patient with one another.

  107. So, Derek, will you now respect Michael and end your back and forth?
    ——————————————-
    That’s a ballsy statement to make considering that post 101 which was made a full hour after Michael made his request.

    Michael makes a request…an hour later G fires off his missive at many in the community…THEN demands silence in return under the guise of respect for Michael

  108. Since this is a thread on favorite translation of the Bible, I was curious which translation contains the verbiage of the majority of the posts.

  109. ding dong is funny 🙂

  110. ding,
    its the colloquial, sitting at coffee version

  111. yeah Josh, if we only knew

  112. its sort of like being overweight after having lost 35lb. I’m better but still not good.

  113. ding,
    its the paraphrase that pastors break into when after reading a bible chapter aloud they then fill in spaces between the letters with their own commentary.

    you do it, I do it, everyone does it, some with pictures, some with words less or more colourful

    there’s a lot to be said for storytelling, the personal experience of how something impacts a person. that’s why the fascination with hearing pastor/teachers, guest speakers, poets

  114. yeah Steve, I’m ballsy, but I’m working hard to become Banksy

  115. I watched a documentary on Banksy, and don’t really get him. Stencils?!?! I’m more of a SAMO guy. 🙂

  116. No, G.
    I am still waiting for the examples of where I either told Michael not to be friends with you or Alex. Or even where I advocated either one of you banned.
    I guess just showing someone’s actions means that to you.

  117. Banksy is great in his iconic ironic imagery

  118. Well, going back to work. The three day weekend beckons and a cold ale calls my name from the house.
    Have fun continuing to call all that SCCL kind of stuff humor.

  119. I guess. In that sense would you call him a derivative of Warhol? See, I get Warhol…Basquiat, Keith Herring…with Banksy I kind of just think of a guy putting a sticker on a stop sign.

  120. Have a good one Derek! I have a few minutes before lunch is over, and I’m back to the grind. Think I’ll take the wife and kids up to the hills this weekend.

  121. no Derek, its not

    aren’t you getting tired of all this? I know I am as are everyone else

    there is art to create, songs to compose, poetry to write

    let’s get past all this. I need to know you as a person, perhaps we can find some things in common

    If you like,
    tell me what you like in terms of your favorite bible translation
    -mine is variable but I tend to like paraphrases that stick close to the meanings expressed in the NASB

    tell me what you like in terms of your favorite artists (use links)
    -here’s one of mine…http://chapter-56.blogspot.com/ I like this artist because I’m learning to be a digital media artist

    share with me one of your favorite songs, perhaps using a YouTube or Vimeo link
    -one of my favorites… http://vimeo.com/18655382 I love the groove the bass player lays down, I bet Josh might like it too

    share one of your favorite poems
    -one of my favorites http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/making/warprayer.html I first encountered this poem in 1971

  122. It seems that a lot of the strife here is not about real issues, but about “you said”, “I never said”, you did too/did not, jr high girl stuff. Seems to be the usual suspects, as well.

    Maybe we should remember that people will die today because they have no clean water, and shrug off our first world problems.

  123. “Maybe we should remember that people will die today because they have no clean water, and shrug off our first world problems.”

    great reminder, thanks Jim

  124. “Maybe we should remember that people will die today because they have no clean water”

    And what are you doing about that…other than guilt-tripping me?

  125. That’s not quite a Jesus Juke, maybe a social justice juke?

  126. It’s more of a some people have real problems juke. I will tell ya this, I’m not going to argue about it, because some people have real problems. The chronically offended can argue with each other.

  127. A few things about me, G. And we’ve talked about this stuff before, but I have a point with all this:

    My favorite artist ever is Van Gogh. I really like a ton of artists though. Many of them are personal friends of mine, and they are brilliant. I like alot of the 80’s New York stuff that I mentioned earlier. Would have been exciting to be there at that time. There’s a musician / artist from around here named David Childers who has done some really cool paintings.

    A favorite song is quiet afternoon by Stanley Clark.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6hbmchAjVM
    Love the horns in this, wish you could hear the woodwinds betters as they add a lot to the whole vibe.

    A poem I love is “howl” by Alan Ginsberg. Now, Obviously, its a little rough to post here, but here’s a snippet that always grabs me:
    “I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked,
    dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix,
    Angel-headed hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection
    to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night,”

    Now, for the point: I LOVE the Bible. Love it. Love reading it, thinking about, talking about it, believing it, understanding it, wondering about it. I love the parts I don’t understand, the parts that make me uncomfortable. I love discussing the bible, and trying, though desperately failing to live the Bible.

    I don’t particularly love being told over and over that I am an idiot for loving the Bible. Ya know?

  128. Jim, we’re talking on a blog. Of course all of this pales in comparison to children dying. As does your post rebuking us. And your post defending your rebuke.

    Drop the guilt trip. Join in conversation or don’t. We all know that there is a world outside of this blog. Some of us actually live in it.

  129. Well, Josh, you might like this image I found last night…

    http://i.imgur.com/w58l5.jpg

    “I don’t particularly love being told over and over that I am an idiot for loving the Bible. Ya know?”

    Yep, I know. So ignore anyone who tells you you are an idiot for loving the bible.

  130. But you rebuked those of who might have wanted to ignore that guy. Understand?

  131. I wanted to give a brief summation of answers to questions before bowing out of this particular topic:

    Regarding the “Jesus filled mind” snarky-ness. I consider it a blessing to have Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and ministering in my life while allotting me time on earth to be a witness for Him and study His Word.

    Michael, I do not believe it was your intent to insult me. But like Peter, I do believe that satan insulted my faith ‘through you’. It was truly he, that was the target of my rebuke. If my rebuke was taken as an insinuation of a ‘lack of faith’ on your part, my deepest apologies.

    Patrick, I am content with a child like faith in Christ. If I do not unlock the secrets of the scriptures until post mortem, that is okay. As far as church history goes, most of the ‘fathers’ don’t even agree with each other…so how would I know which one of them to pick? I end up back in the Word again, which is simply where I prefer to stay.

    Steve Wright, my history with CC goes back to my birth, I was dedicated at CCCM. The dove logo is enough to keep me outside of church doors. And while our theologies will never fully align, I appreciate your thoughts & prayers as I continue to work out my own salvation in fear and trembling.

    Derek, your skill at mediation is evidence of our Father working in your life.

    Regarding “G”: I would like to go on record as saying I believe them to be a very warm & loving person. Which is why even more so, I want to share the truth of God’s Word with them. I want to hug them in heaven, I do not want to mourn their loss.

    If my “roasting” of G prevents satan’s plan to roast them post mortem, then I will gladly wear the mantle of ‘bad guy’ by preaching the Word.

  132. And yeah, that image is kinda awesome.

  133. So ignore anyone who tells you you are an idiot for loving the bible.<<<

    That's what I do.

  134. G said yesterday at 11:30 –
    “I reject anyone’s call to ignore you, Slicky Lobby.”

    Edited so I don’t get censored.

  135. Josh,

    You are not being censored in particular.
    In order to moderate a person, you must enter all the information associated with that person to do so.
    In order that I could moderate him (and sundry comments about him) that name had to be entered as a tag.
    If anybody wants to ignore anybody else on this blog, that’s the prerogative of the reader.

  136. Some do make it more difficult, but thanks for the clarification on the moderation. I saw others using the name and was not aware that they were moderated too.

  137. There are two factors at work for me.

    1) This is a community. I’ve been a part of it for five years and that still makes me younger here than most who still post. Most of the people here are friends, and so when I see my friends insulted – staying quiet is not always something I can do. This is especially true when I see some male keyboard warriors going after the sisters here.

    The irony is that most here (myself included) believe bully, insulting behavior in a church community is not to just be ignored or to ‘find somewhere else to hang out.’ Nor is duplicitous hypocrisy. It should be marked, challenged, and rebuked. So the sort of “advice” to just ignore the exact same behavior when it comes to a blog community of believers (and friends) likewise rings hollow. One of the lowest days for this blog was the day both Em and Xenia were torn into and not one person but yours truly took a stand for their defense. Another low day was to see the mocking of Josh’s life threatening medical issue in his past

    2) This is a community, mostly, of Christians who see the Bible as God’s Word. There was a time (as noted by the creation of the wrangling sidebars) when most of the debates centered around doctrinal issues of the Lord’s Supper, Baptism, Eschatology, and Calvinism. It was easy to excuse oneself from those in-house debates. And even if one engaged the wonder of the community is that everyone stayed friends.

    But lately the debate is towards the Bible as an Authority from God, His revelation to mankind. And given that there are readers who do not post, who either have questions or doubts about Scripture, it is not proper to let ignorant comments stand unanswered. It is not proper to see falsehood about beliefs be passed off to readers who do not have five (or more) years of history here to know the truth. Sometimes a good discussion could be pursued – such as why the Bible does speak of coming in boldness to the throne – and yet when verses are used as punch lines and not offered in the belief they have authority, then that too becomes impossible.

    So those are my two factors. And not only have they been prevalent, but they have been seen in combination for quite some time. I don’t know the answer – but I know Michael is a good friend, a Christian brother, and he knows I will support him in any way I can to make this blog a better place – any way at all.

  138. Steve,

    Well said, and I agree that there are things worth fighting for.

  139. Steve, I remember Josh sticking up for Em and me as well.

  140. But I am sticking up for Steve and Josh, who have been trashed by certain people. The Blog Host may be loyal to his friends but I am loyal to mine.

  141. Oh G, ever the peacemaker, as seen elsewhere with your SCCL mockery humor.
    Ok, if you want a response go read the “other blog” or can I actually say “Calvary Chapel Abuse”. Sort of seems like a misnomer nowadays, shouldn’t it be called “God’s Word Abuse”?

  142. Xenia,

    The Blog Host honestly considers almost everyone here to be his friend.
    That’s what makes it so very difficult at times.
    I long for the days when my shell was harder.
    You and I go back even farther than the blog online…and I would hope that you know that you are both loved and appreciated, by me and by those who read here.

  143. Michael, I consider you to be a friend as well but there are things that happen on this blog that simply don’t add up. And you must have your reasons for the things you do here, I don’t doubt that. But I will just say that some things are incomprehensible.

  144. Well Derek, no problem, it’s entirely up to you. Have a day and many more.

  145. Basically, what goes on here is that I try to keep the blog up while keeping the time I need to spend here to a minimum and without too much collateral damage.
    As I write this I’m helping Trey with schooling and I spent most of the morning looking for work.
    My attention is very divided on a good day…and most of my other writers and moderators have left in the wake of all the controversy.
    I’m trying to do the best I can for all involved and it is no small grief to me that it isn’t working out well at all.

  146. Michael,
    I’ll be praying for your continued job search & new school year with Trey.

    Taking a break, lots of project opportunities, new music opportunities.

    See you on FB & email!

  147. “Derek,

    Over on another blog, crownedone1 is roasting my friend the Gman.
    I don’t agree with G about much biblically, but I love his heart and his journey is still in progress.
    I’m not going to post over there…but I’m going to give the pious crownedone1a taste of his own medicine.”

    And your a Pastor?

  148. Yes, Solomon, I am.
    Pastors have friends, they have emotions, and they take a stand when appropriate.

  149. Michael,

    People are wanting you to take a stand, you are trying to be all things to all people. I have no issue with anyone here and to be honest I don’t take things here so seriously. I like this blog and I like RB’s blog but I think many get way too sensitive on both blogs. At the end of the day its the internet not real life.

  150. Solomon,

    I am tired of people judging the salvation of people they neither really know or care for based on some standard other than the Gospel and I really don’t care what blog they do it on.
    All of us are wrong on some point of doctrine, but if we’re in Christ we’re alive and growing and he’ll get us home before dark.
    If you confess Christ and Him crucified and trust in Him for your salvation, then I’ll accept that confession of faith.

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