Jan 252014
 

Jacob Prasch posted this video a couple of days ago and then abruptly took it down.

It has been reposted and I post it here for your perusal.

It’s full of misinformation and erroneous conclusions, but it also represents the views of one wing of the movement.

Prasch isn’t calling for a split because it’s his idea…he’s acting as a mouthpiece here.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/i4qKLKhTL8Q[/youtube]

  112 Responses to “Prasch Rips Greg Laurie, Calvary Chapel”

  1. Michael, there’s nothing to see????

  2. It’s showing on my computer…I’ll post the url if you’re on a device that isn’t rendering it.
    http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/discernment/a-word-to-calvary-chapels

  3. Goodness gracious I’m glad The Lord gracious guided me out of CC after less a year in Tom Stipes church in Denver. Very sad in many ways

  4. Such BS I couldn’t make it past minute 12. Yeah we should b real worried about Prasch and his 940 followers. Gimme a break. Not a single thing of substance in his screed

  5. Kgnikon,

    I take it you agree with Prasch?

  6. Stipe is one of the best pastor/teachers in the movement.
    I highly recommend him.

  7. Also Prasch himself admits he is NOT part of CC so how could he speak for CC

  8. Mark,

    Whether you like it or not, he (and George Bryson) speak for more than a few CC pastors.

  9. Mark,

    My guess is that he was asked to do this or did it in response to what he has heard on his speaking trips.
    CC people are loathe to speak for themselves…but they will feed others to speak for them.
    Trust me on this…

  10. I remember all too well the run in I had with Prasch. I had refused to allow someone to post one of his links on my blog and of course the commenter ran to him complaining that I called Prasch a “one trick pony who rarely gets anything right” and Prasch ripped me, called me names and a whole bunch of other stuff via email to the commenter and some of Prasch’s associates (he refused to copy me). He also ran down his list of “good works” just like the Word of Faith people do. He is a piece of work and yes he’s only a mouthpiece Michael.

  11. My guess is that he was asked to do this or did it in response to what he has heard on his speaking trips.
    ————————————————————–
    This was made for some conference involving John Higgins, David Hocking, and Paul Smith – per the opening minute.

  12. Ah, the “usual suspects”, John Higgins, Dave Hunt, Paul Smith. The usual lies about Warren, fear mongering, etc ad naseum. Sad but not surprising. I am more convinced than ever that rapture theology is one of the most divisive, secondary issues of christendom. Also, JP may have been silent to Chuck’s face 10 years ago, but the lines were being drawn and alliances being formed by JP and those he mentioned as being the “good guys” vs those they thought were “going off the rails”. And it was not that subtle, from where I sat.
    Having CS speak at the end as if from the great beyond an ironic touch. Talk about using an emotional hook to validate JP’s warning and call to arms.
    Any word on why it was removed?

  13. Phil,

    As you know, I’m not a fan of Prasch… πŸ™‚

  14. Anne,

    I don’t know…but my guess is that it will disappear again.
    In that case, I’ve already downloaded it. πŸ™‚

  15. Maybe he had to get permission from someone to use the Pastor Chuck clip at the end.

  16. There is a conference this weekend…and all the speakers share Praschs view.

    http://www.godlyconferences.com/old-path-word–spirit-conference

    “John Higgins, David Hocking, Warren Smith, Greg Young, Paul Smith, Gary Cowan, Jeremy Higgins, Lawrence Day, Benjamin Ring, Chris Quintana, George Bryson, Ruth Smith”

  17. Isn’t this what you would expect to happen when the visionary leader of a movement dies? Isn’t this what commonly happens in all churches? Don’t most denominations eventually fracture into the fundamentalists/ conservatives, the reformers (small “r”) and the wing nuts who want to ordain lesbian women? Why would CC be any different?

  18. Michael,

    I don’t want to slander the guy but doesn’t Prasch believe that only someone who knows Hebrew can correctly interpret and teach the Old Testament? I think it’s called “Midrash” or something to that effect.

    The other thing about Prasch that I will never forget is when he referred to Ted Haggard as “sister Ted”…..real good guy that Jacob Prasch.

    Sorry Michael but everytime I see that man’s name my blood pressure goes up.

  19. Ha! I wonder if Ruth Smith’s segment won’t be live-streamed to avoid the horrendous possiblity men could inadvertantly be taught by a woman 😯

    Another irony I’m pondering after the video: are those favoring continuation of the Moses Model supporting a particular new head moses to replace Chuck or content to be their own individual moses’ w/o that pesky financial o pastoral accountability?

  20. Xenia,

    It should not only be expected, it should have been anticipated.

  21. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_gst-Ryh3g

    And so it begins…. Calvary Chapel will implode from within, all in the name of “removing a cancer or gangrene. He’s right about that part.

    And while he decries getting into the ministry for mixed motives, it is funny to see him pimping books and conferences. You think maybe that he’s upset with CC pastors who don’t host his conferneces and sell his books? How does he make a living?

  22. I feel bad for all the good people in CC this will hurt.

  23. Anne,

    This isn’t just about the continuation of the senior pastor model.
    That is never going to change, in my opinion.
    This is about having very hard lines drawn around doctrinal issues and emphasis and the traditional “distinctives” of Calvary Chapel.
    The biggest issue that this group has is a lack of leadership that can speak to other factions…they are considered wing nuts by too many.

  24. Phil,

    This is in reality a good and necessary thing…it’s about time that some lines were drawn publicly.

  25. Papias,

    Most of these guys were cut off from the mothership the day after Chucks funeral…

  26. Is there a fault in working to keep a movement’s doctrines pure? (I do not agree with these doctrines, I am just asking a general question.)

  27. I don’t know that what he said was all that bad or controversial. If you look at early Lutheran history the same was true. When Luther died in 1546, within a few years many were falling for the “Purpose Driven” or “Emergent” of it’s day … Calvinism

    After 20 yrs of Lutheran discord, it took the 2nd Martin (Martin Chemitz) to come on the scene and straighten things out and bring the church back to it’s true teaching and foundation – which culminated in the formation of the Book of Concord.

  28. You’re probably right Michael and they definitely found the right guy to do the line drawing. The only problem is that Prasch’s line seems to change whenever it suits him lol…..I’ll shut up now Michael πŸ™‚

  29. GAG I see the tool shed has another member.

  30. What’s the big deal if some of the Calvary Chapels leave.They are all voluntarly affilliated.If some of the pastors are unhappy then simply start afresh.Instead of doing dumb you tube vids why not be proactive move on.

  31. In Ortholandia, us Ortho-fundies always freak out when Patriarch Bartholomew seems to be getting too cozy with the Pope and people who I admire post videos not too different in tone than the one presented here and I applaud.

  32. What’s the concern with “purpose driven” from JP’s perspective?

  33. Michael @ 16.

    So his rant WAS to promote the conference.

    Like a salesman who tells you that you have a problem (one that you didn’t know you have), and then tells you what you need to buy from him in order to take care of that problem.

    Only, in this case, he’s trying to sell himself to CC pastors to host his conferences.

    He’s got chutzpah. πŸ™‚

  34. Jean,

    He didn’t write it and probably wished he had.

  35. I’m sure he was asked to do this..what he is saying is something many of have know for yrs (over 10 at least). I was getting all caught up in this and the Lord spoke to me that it is still His church and He will guide us.. The CC’s I’ve attended and been apart of will more that likely split if it is needed. It’s just a wait and see time now and prayer..I for one have too many things going on in my life to let it rob me of joy and peace.I know personally Chuck was talked to about 6 months ago by a brother for over two hours about everything. Yet, no changes.. Perhaps as Jacob said his health was just to poor to do anything. for that I can not blame him.. I want to remember him as the man that taught me more that I can ever say and am thankful it was CC’s God led me to right after I got saved.

  36. What a joke. Is this the best mouthpiece they could find? He foams at the mouth and can’t even pronounce the big words he tries to use.

  37. I think this is healthy for the body as a whole.

    If these guys want to go their own way, let them.

    If they feel that everyone else has gone off the tracks theologically, then it is best that they stick with people that feel the same as they do than to stick with the movement and just have strife over their differences.

    I agree with Michael’s #24 and with X’s sentiments on the matter.

  38. You could see this coming from miles away. 40 years of “Brother Bashing” trains the mind to hate. Chuck’s private war with Robert Schuller then Bob Mumford then John Wimber then Rick Warren then Brian Brodersen kept everybody in this camp well practiced in the fine art of vilification. I don’t think JP took an English class however.

  39. Also, I agree with “Dude” in that guys truly given ministries by God are just going to put one foot in front of the other and and be busy being faithful. Not enough time to fight these kinds of battles.

  40. “but saved into what?” I guess this guy’s God isn’t sovereign.

  41. This group behind this video are irrelevant to the CC movement. They r dinosaurs with no influence and they speak for a tiny tiny minority of CCS. by the way Dave Hunt was provocative but in no way represented the mainstream of CC even in his heyday

  42. We need a comment from Jackie – isn’t she friends with this guy?

    I watched the video again, and I am still trying to figure out the controversy. Is it his message or is it who he is delivering it to. Are the guys at the conference considered the last holdouts for truth and the rest are going to hell in a hand basket … or are the conference goes those who have left the fold.

    Anyway, I see his message as “OK, Chuck let it get a little out of hand, a bit loosey goosey with some non CC teachers – now let’s get back to business of being CC – which I think is good.

  43. Mark,
    “by the way Dave Hunt was provocative but in no way represented the mainstream of CC even in his heyday”

    You had better jump back in the time machine and check it out. Dave Hunt practically lived in CC in the early to mid 80s. What Dave Hunt thought of the end times, CC thought of the end times. What Dave Hunt thought of the Roman Church, CC thought of the Roman Church. What Dave Hunt thought of the Rainbow mystics, CC thought about the Rainbow mystics.

    His books and tapes filled the CC bookstore shelves.

  44. Mark,

    I have a bunch of emails and my ear is worn out from people way above your position that are saying something totally different.
    This split will happen, is happening…and there are some shocking things happening behind the scenes as I write this.

  45. There is no “movement” within CC to “go off the rails ” doctrinally or trash the distinctive s. that is blatantly false. Maybe a few renegades but the overwhelming vast majority of CCs r the same whether in southern cal central jersey or Auckland

  46. MLD,

    These guys believe they are the true holders of the flame…and they are ready to set fire to the rest.

  47. MLD,

    You spoke well of Hunts influence…

  48. Michael you’ve been saying this for years. You really have. Your inside information just hasn’t proven true. “Flying the dove” still means the same thing.

  49. MLD I agree Hunt was provocative. I said that. He was a big conference draw. But his teachings never took hold in the distinctive s and he is irrelevant today

  50. Mark,

    I’m right.
    You will have to recognize this soon enough.
    I’m watching a CC conference right now…live…about how the rest of the CC’s have gone off the rails.

  51. Mark,

    Where are the distinctives on the CCA page?
    Let me help you…they’re not.

  52. All’s I can say is Dave Hunt was an author we all read in my CC days. He fell in my estimation when I was writing a paper for a CC Bible college class about a particular episode in church history and consulted his “The Woman Rides the Beast.” Comparing what he wrote with what (I now realize) are serious church historians was a real eye opener. I had to ask myself if his errors were the result of carelessness or a willful desire to be blinded to certain inconvenient truths. Who knows. God bless him, he meant well and he has gone on to be with his Lord but I think he’s going to be pretty surprised at who all’s up there in heaven with him!

  53. Well..we had the ‘distinctives’ discussion in the past. I thought all agreed it was a good move forward and not the sign of the great schism.

    Here they are in their new form… http://calvarychapelassociation.com/general-information/philosophy/

  54. CC has had its heyday. God has used it in some specific ways. One in particular is the emphasis on expository teaching of the Word to equip the saints. There comes a time in many organizations that it is best to cease than to continue. There is a real danger that followers of C Smith will continue to venerate him, and be distracted from placing their full trust and loyalty in Christ. We can thank God for what he did in and through Mr. Smith’s life, but now that he is gone, it may be best to gift all the assets toward other genuine movements of God, and close down the formal organizational aspects of CC to avoid unhealthy schisms among those who may bring shame to the name of Christ. Not unlike a family of a very wealthy father, it is best to plan the estate transfer so to avoid deep generational conflicts. If this was done, it would not prevent the advance of the Kingdom of God. No movement or denomination holds the exclusive keys to theological truth. My suggestion is to encourage the full formal shutdown of CC for these reasons.

  55. Xenia,

    Well said.

  56. Steve,

    It will be part of a schism…the only thing preventing it from splitting like a ripe melon today is that many of the rank and file think things are as Mark says.
    The “leaders” know better…those that will speak to each other…

  57. So, he waited until Chuck died to share his concerns and not while he was alive? He “shared the platform” with Chuck throughout the years and never said anything about the “direction of the movement” with him face to face? Must not of wanted to interrupt the revenue stream he was reaping by hitching his wagon to Smith. Sad, but all to common.

  58. I was with over 30 CC pastors just this month, many of whom are very longtimers with recognizable names, and not a word was spoken about disgruntlement or for that matter “the movement” in any general sense whatsoever. We engaged in discussion about how to be a better pastor. That’s it.

    I am curious though. We were told on this blog last summer that John Higgins had left Calvary Chapel. The title was “The Split Begins” – I believe the report initiated with Jackie..

    So what happened to cause the change of heart for him to remain (and thus the split NOT to begin). Or was this erroneous reporting initially?

  59. The formal closing would honor the original vision to have a fellowship among fellowships. It was never meant to become a denomination. The biggest hinderance to folding operations is the lure of money. It would be a testimony to the world to do something so radically contrarian. God’s ways are not our ways…

  60. Who Cares, he said he did have a long phone conversation with Pastor Chuck who agreed with everything he said but didn’t act on any of it due to ill health.

    No need to make stuff up.

  61. Steve,

    Neither.
    It’s my understanding that Higgins will continue to use the Calvary Chapel name because he believes that he is one of the “real” Calvary Chapel guys.
    He is also on the forefront of those claiming that most of the rest of the group are falling into apostasy.
    The report was Higgins own words.

  62. The most confounding thing about writing about CC is that there is an almost complete lack of communication from the gltterati to the rank and file.
    These people will speak to me or a Jacob Prasch, but won’t address the issues themselves.
    The ‘no talk” rule is so deeply engrained in this culture it’s amazing.

  63. Thank you Michael. Not only does he use the name, he remains on the Calvary Chapel Association website – so that’s why I framed my question in that manner @58

  64. The “ill health” excuse is a load of crap, by the way…Smith was a consummate politician and…I’ll just say it…as duplicitous as any politician.

  65. If I was Greg Laurie I’d wear this as a badge of honor. But he doesn’t give a rip either way.

  66. I think the explanation is simpler. Smith appeared on TBN and had no trouble sharing a venue with TBN. Why would he have a problem sharing a venue with Warren? TBN is certainly worse theologically speaking, not to mention in terms of money. Smith knew that not rocking the boat equaled a continuous cash flow.

    The problem with Mr. Prasch is that he thinks that CC is a significant movement in the history of Christianity. Its not. Its a flyspeck on the map which will probably not last too much longer. In any given country there are a number of sects centered around personally charismatic leaders.

    The formula is simple. Remove responsibility from the laity. Make worship structured to evoke feelings people enjoy. Preach some basic Christian message, but nothing too substantial and stay out of people’s private lives (divorce-remarriage.) Do this and you can make a lot of cash.

  67. Michael I was the assistant youth pastor in the late 90s and also used to answer the phones for Crossroads church of Denver. I know we are all broken and full of sin…but the attitude in upper leadership in his church was beyond terrible. Tom is a gifted teacher who has failed to ” watch his life” the lack of church structure in nearly all CC is appalling. Pastors aren’t held accoable nor are the people they profess to “pastor” code for peope who pop in to listen to me preach on Sunday”

  68. Ps. Rick Warren is a blessing in more than one way

  69. In my online and offline experience in the faith of the Lord Jesus, Prince of Peace. There are people I know, who literally loath Rich Warren with a deep, holy and eternal God ordained hatred. They think he is a servant to Satan leading people back to Rome. I believe a few would even use physical violence if they could towards Mr. Warren. They do pray for his downfall and eventually being judged and cast into the lake of fire. I wont go into what a few said about his son’s passing.

  70. What is controversial about Rick Warren?

  71. Earlier this week there was a post on FB where folks were using RW like a pinata. I believe they were CC folks. I left a post asking them what were they going to do with Chuck Smith and Greg Laurie and my post was deleted.

    Now I listen to this guy and am greatly saddened. I don’t mind if people have issues with RW as it seems everyone is being exposed for one thing or another in today’s environment. But to talk of him as an unbeliever is just plain dangerous.

    If you believe RW is that dangerous I believe you are walking on very thin ice in judging the state of this man’s relationship with God. If you believe that way I can understand your obligation to call out Greg, Chuck and Brian Brodersen, etc. At least you aren’t playing the hypocrite.

    Taking a shot at Chuck Jr. who no longer is a part of CC is pathetic. Does it follow that Jacob believes Chuck Jr. is not a believer? Is eschatology a major or a minor doctrine for these folks?

    I would be happy if Greg or another “apostate” would go public in rebuttal of this although it just might be entering into something that you lose if you do and lose if you don’t.

    When it comes to living the Christian life some times it appears the spiritual giants of our day are sitting in the pews. How is it the body can be at war with one another seemingly not caring about nothing but winning arguments with their bullet points?

    John 3:16

  72. “What is controversial about Rick Warren?” From what I have heard some say he is a pawn of Rome seeking to lead souls astray as the one world religion is emerging in these last days. Of course I think that is utter nonsense on its face.

  73. The formation of different camps within Calvary has been happening for some time. Prasch’s (who is just a mouthpiece) call for a split is not the first one. The problem is that there are many CC pastors who are completely unaware of what is going on, and that it appears that the different camps all have blood on their hands. And instead of being a watchman, these pastors prefer to stay in the dark as they the deny the possibility that there could be anything wrong in the land of Oz.

  74. Just because a guy can’t pronounce things right doesn’t mean he should be taken seriously.

  75. I had nothing to do with the guy in the video’s shirt. I don’t know where he came up with that stuff. Besides, I’d never wear a solid pink tie with a solid blue shirt. Anyone knows that.

  76. Can Dave hunt? Did Paul smith? Will Jacob prasch? Was the purpose driven?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

  77. Prasch mentioned that the CC movement is being infiltrated by replacement theology. I wonder if simply means to include those who embrace a reformed friendly movement? There are brethren who are reformed yet remain dispensational.

  78. Dave Hunt was a big gun in the CC’s in the 70’s and 80’s. Xenia and MLD are correct on that. Prasch is singing the same song he has been singing for years. It is his only hit on the charts and he keeps coming back with it. What he said on that video is no different from what he has said for years. However now that Chuck is gone, he is not afraid to name names in CC, and even call out Chuck. He didn’t dare do it before, as he knew he would lose his platform in the CC churches. He has faithful groupies in the UK, who follow him around from conference to conference, and they will continue to swoon to his song.

  79. I remember the first time I read Mr. Hunt and listened to his radio broadcasts. First this is totally my fault and I am personally and totally responsible for believing this, know that I am ashamed and it was totally my fault. Ok and yes I mean that, I actually believed that Christ would come back before 2000, I framed much of my life with that in mind. It was stupid and it is my fault alone. I have repented of that and begged God for forgiveness for hoping He would return. I no longer do that.

    But so many of these people peddled this idea and it really caused alot of damage, I get they were branding and developing marketing channels and that is its own justification. I get that. But Mr. Hunt would play the Jesus is coming back real soon or some other chicken little the sky is falling nonsense. It is nonsense because not one think he predicted came true, not none single thing, this is true for all the profitcy rhetoric, not one single event came true. They do sell books, dvds, fill conferences and so on. Again that is justified and always will be.

    I have seen people have their hearts broken, that means nothing at all and its all their fault because they, like myself, were stupid and pathetic enough to buy into it. But it still hurt, which is also irrelevant.

  80. More doctrinal hair-splitting in a war where all parties are shooting each other with rubber bands and have zero to appeal to other than their own minds/opinions.

    Meanwhile kids get abused, funds get misused, women get mistreated, etc. Those are the real issues.

    If God exists, this is certainly more evidence that he or it doesn’t present himself or itself very clearly as evidenced by all the confusion and lack of consensus etc.

  81. Where are the real verifiable miracles? Where’s the beef?

    All these claims of “this is the right way!” yet no one can deliver the goods. It is what it is.

  82. The sower of the tares came at night…

  83. Whatevs, it’s technically morning, but you fundamentalist idiots do similar all the time: “The earth is 6,000 years old despite the overwhelming evidence it isn’t!”

  84. “but you fundamentalist idiots…”

    Nope, nothing’s changed, same old name calling RB

  85. Ricky – can you name one of us who says the earth is 6,000 yrs old? I am not a young earth or old earth person – I just believe what the Bible says and it makes no mention of 6,000 yrs.

    I always take what the Bible says on the subject literally “In the beginning…” the Bible does not say when the beginning began … so I don’t either.

  86. Hey, I will say it.
    I believe the earth is 6000 yrs. old and I could give a rip what RB thinks about it.

    Don’t let him co-opt another thread into something it was not intended to be.
    There is a post up there and a lot of comments engaging the post.
    This is more distraction of the same old same old.

  87. Blessed Be God and Messiah Jesus this first day of the week!

    I watched the video and basically it’s just a bit of sour grapes and “look at me” talk.

    Here’s what I predict:

    In spite of the nay slayers and those who don’t like Chuck Smith, over the next few years the CC brand will solidify and Chuck’s place as an icon and farther will grow stronger.

    In death one of two things tend to happen to men like Chuck, either their alter-ego evil side is revealed or the mystery of his presence actually grows into epic status. I believe the latter will happen. Chuck as a whole does not have a record of evil so I predict at some time in the near future his name will be revered and the legends of his meetings will told time and time again to audiences who will dream of another revival that mirrors the days of Chuck Smith.

    Bless the name of Jesus and may we all live in His house!

  88. Michael I don’t appreciate your condescension. U r reporting a non story. There is not and won’t b a ” schism”. Everyone who is CC will stay CC. new CCs will share the CC philosophy. I don’t know why u insist on reporting this. What do u think is brewing? That someone will remove the dove from hundreds of churches? That is NOT happening. U continue to await some break that is just not gonna happen

  89. I agree with what Ixtlan said at #73, but I’m not holding my breath. Mark, I don’t know what part of the country you live in, but what Michael and Ixtlan are saying is pretty common knowledge where I live.

  90. Mark,

    Do you really think I wake up in the morning and make this stuff up?
    Was Prasch speaking from ignorance or information?
    When I write something about CC it’s based on hours, days, weeks, and sometimes months of research.
    When I write something it’s out on the internet for all to see and judge, friend and foe alike.
    I have to work harder than any journalist to be fair and accurate…people like you would love to discredit me.
    I’ll be damned after all these years if I’ll let that happen.
    The reality of Calvary Chapel leadership is that it’s a divided, dysfunctional mess which grows more bitter by the day.
    You may not recognize that, but that won’t stop the inevitable.

  91. Mark,
    no one will remove “the dove” in any CC–that isn’t the issue. What many are saying is the fellowship between CC’s will be interrupted–divided by controversy, disagreement, and competing values–and the characteristics/distinctives enjoyed in the past will, indeed, be past. I think those concerns have already been realized in degrees, but the full scale lies ahead.

    besides, the dove is merely a symbol–copyrighted–but meaningless in and of itself. Flying that symbol in no way guarantees anything. At least when I see a “golden arches” I can get a quarter pounder with cheese.

  92. “sower of tares” was the first name calling…I counterpunched as usual.

    Hit me, I hit back.

    Don’t call me names, I won’t call you names. Your choice.

  93. It’s the god of the Old Testament smiting principal. You fundamentalists should like it. “be like god!” OK, smite me, I’ll smite thee back πŸ˜‰

  94. There will be no smiting and no unnecessary strife.
    We are doing well without it and that will continue.

  95. Mark,

    Have you found the “distinctives” yet on the CCA page?
    Why is that?
    Who made that change?

  96. OK, then why do you not enforce that principle equally?

  97. What you are essentially demanding of me is to be a willing victim and not respond to attacks. You tie my hands and enforce a rigid law with regards to my participation, yet you don’t apply the same standard to others and you rarely intervene or moderate when others take the first shot (and they always take the first shot, I speak to Ideas and Institutions, not persons…until I’m attacked, then I respond to the person).

    It’s a glaring Problem with this blog that many many others see and have told me they see clearly.

  98. I’m not usually up in the middle of the night.
    You post things that the majority of the community here find offensive and they react.
    The simple answer is not to post things that you know will gather the reaction you always get.
    This isn’t a democracy and I have limited time and energy to invest here, so I’m going to do the best I can and trust people to moderate their postings and responses as much as possible.
    Failing that, I will have to moderate them.
    We are regathering some former readers and commenters and I very much like the current direction of the blog…and it needs to continue on this trajectory.

  99. I won’t be a victim ever again. If you fluffy bunny with me, I will fluffy bunny with you (the “you” is in general and not directed at any single person).

    That is the example, ironically, of what “god” who never changes supposedly gave to the Israelites. god has a “don’t fluffy bunny with me” policy in the OT and Revelation, no?

  100. “The simple answer is not to post things that you know will gather the reaction you always get.”

    Every thing about much of your belief system is offensive, yet you post it over and over.

  101. Calvary Chapel’s existence is offensive, yet it is discussed and defended here regularly.

    Life is full of offense. Put your big boy and big girl pants on or continue to selectively enforce and continue to selectively silence. I know you to be about as principled and unmovable as an autumn leaf so I won’t hold my breath and will go to my blog.

  102. Michael, I was really taken by surprise when I read brian’s link regarding what is going on at IHOP/Bethel. It sounds like things are out of control. Is this something you will be following up on?

  103. erunner,

    Not really.
    I posted the link on Facebook, but I don’t have the time to go too far out of my area.
    I am following up on the situation in the Philippines and there are some truly bizarre things happening in CC that I’m gathering info on.
    I hope to start a church history series next week as well and that’s a lot of work.
    Other than that, I have to find a job, take care of T, and teach in our own church.
    I will see if anyone else decides to follow up on it and put those links up.
    IHOP has had the support of some heavy hitters, so it’s worth looking at.

  104. Maybe someone here may follow up on it? They are very influential and to read of what is going on there is quite alarming. Yeah…. your plate seems full!!

  105. erunner,

    It is full…and T competes for the state of Oregon tae kwan do championship next weekend, so this week will be shorter than most. πŸ™‚

  106. Coming split?……..Christianity American style.The Body of Christ is at war with itself in America anyway.Every denomination has split apart at least once.The departing factions claiming to be more pure in faith and doctrine over the bretheren they depart from.Calvary having a split….sounds like the norm

  107. Ricky,

    No matter what name you post under, it’s always so obvious it’s you. Listen, I side with you. I feel for you. I can relate to you. I agree with much of what you have to say. It’s just how you say it. I have been through similar family abuse and negative experiences with CC as well, only to a much lesser degree than you. I relate to you and you have helped me a great deal in my struggles. I read everything you post on your blog. I am very interest in what you have to say, and I am guessing I am not alone in that. But you come in like a wrecking ball. Why not tone it down a little and still say everything you want to say. I’m interested, and others are too. What is it accomplishing when you come in here like a bully and start attacking people. Show a little civility. You can still say everything you have to say, and tell others how wrong you believe they are. I do not run across many people with the intelligence and knowledge that you possess. I’m not trying to placate or compliment you. I’m serious. You are gifted.

  108. Michael please clarify what u r referring to. Im calling u out because you have been reporting this coming”schism” for so long that u have become the boy who cried wolf. There is no one man leading CC. Chuck always said the movement was not about the man. It never was. I challenge u to show me any vast movement in CC away from the distinctives. You can’t. I challenge u to show me any one leader in CC preaching a theology at odds with the distinctives. U can’t. I challenge u to show me a CC sr pastors conference,an east coast pastors conference, or any other gathering oh hundreds of CC leaders where a theology at odds with the distinctives is preached. U can’t. So what if someone is fighting about control of money or radio or CCCM? That is not the CC movement. So what r u really talking about ? Stop beating around the bush. What exactly is the coming split in CC that u cry wolf about for several years now?

  109. Mark,

    I’m about to leave for church.
    Why aren’t the classic distinctives on the CCA page?
    Let me answer for you.
    They are gone because a large group of leaders wanted them gone and wanted them rewritten much more generically.
    That group also is open to ecumenical relations with Calvinists and other groups, different models of church government and a modernization of the whole system.
    Doctrinal differences on the Rapture and other secondary doctrines (such as the use of alcohol) are not going to be emphasized.
    There is another group…the one represented by Prasch in this video.
    They are not ecumenical, love the classic distinctives, believe that relationships outside the group are unprofitable and place high importance on secondary doctrines.
    They are at great odds with each other.
    I will have more in the coming weeks…some of which will be shocking to you, but which will be fact.

  110. Good to see that new Calvary Chapel going more liberal theologically. It’s the right path. The old school Taliban wing of Calvary Chapel is a joke. They are a laughing stock and most of the CC abuses occur in that sect of the sect.

  111. Michael. Here’s where u r suspect. Chuck and today’s CC have NEVER been against ecumenical relations with other groups. Thee had never been a ban on alcohol. There r many many many calvary chapels with differing forms of govt. the pre trib rapture is still front and center on the cc website. U did not respond to my various challenges. Where is this major shift at the conferences that are the MAIN and often ONLY connection a local CC has with the mother ship? There is none. I guess I will let u go on crying wolf. I will let it go. I will go back to serving in my local CC, fellowship ping with my other local CCs and visiting CCs all over the world. And unlike what someone else posted about McDonald’s Golden Arches I will continue to experience the same CC distinctives at every church flying the dove. Goodnight

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