Apr 062014
 

Bob CoyBob Coy, pastor of  megachurch Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale has been fired for moral failure.

The buzz that started as an anonymous comment on calvarychapelabuse.com has been confirmed.

 

According to numerous sources and documents we have obtained, Coy has already been dismissed by his board.

We have confirmed  that Coy has admitted to at least two affairs in the past year alone and has had a long standing “problem with pornography”.

There are suspicions among leadership that he has not yet fully confessed to all his infidelity.

No mention was made of the scandal at the church’s Saturday evening service, but attendees were informed that the church would hold a “family meeting” tomorrow at 4:30 EST.

Coy is also said to be releasing a “public apology” at that time.

His wife and family are said to have left Florida already.

The church is home to over 20,000 attendees and has over 1000 employees.

The shockwaves over Coy’s firing started spreading early this morning as the news leaked out.

The family and staff are naturally in shock, as is the leadership of Calvary Chapel nationally.

He was also a board member for the Calvary Chapel Association, which has already removed him from it’s ‘leadership” page.

  825 Responses to “Bob Coy Removed For Moral Failure: Updated”

  1. Bummer. What a disappointment especially as I know many who have thought well of him.

  2. Thank you for sharing this hard news, Michael. This will certainly be a season of emotional turmoil for CC Fort Lauderdale, as they lose their senior pastor. I sincerely hope the congregation not only survives it all but even thrives.

  3. So do we go to punishment or restoration? Do we expose a fraud or recover a brother? Do we take measures that heal or expunge the record of his existence? I will be curious to see how available his teachings are after this. We gotta start getting this right. He has been the father and leader of a house. He has been overtaken in trespass now it is time to win.

    The church only loses if they go to the punishment and exposure message without hope of recovering a brother. I am not telling them to let him keep his job. I am telling them to let him recover his heart, name and honor. Let him be restored to the church’s love.

  4. EricL,

    I will be giving more information as it is vetted.
    My heart is with his family and that congregation.

  5. BD,

    Now would be a good time to write us a full article on this issue…

  6. Ok Michael, let me get through the weekend.

  7. BD,

    If Bob Coy is truly repentant we go with restoration, recovering a brother, and we take measures that heal. There of course will be natural consequences for his sin (as there for all of us) when we too sin, but his will be on a much bigger stage.

  8. There should be no quick fix restorations. It should take time and healing.

  9. The p0rn habit is insatiable, gotta treat it like a heroin addiction and view it as just as dangerous to you or it will eat you alive if you want to be married and be a father to your kids and if you want to remain a public pastor teaching against such things.

  10. “the news leaked out”

    A CCFL employee posted it on my blog and I started asking questions all over the place and then published the question.

  11. The devil laughs with glee, the mockers will mock and scorn, those who are hiding their own sin will tremble that they could be next.

    Those who understood their own propensity, weakness and past personal sins and failures might be better off placing a hand over their mouths and silently praying for mercy to be extended to this man and his family.

  12. Coy’s not alone…I know of quite a few CC pastors who are just un-caught for similar sins and other equally bad or worse stuff.

    These guys are not special and they are not anointed. That is a myth that needs to be wiped out.

  13. BD,

    That works…I have my hands full too.

  14. Lots of pain and fallout behind the scenes, I’m sure…. everybody is broken by stuff like this. I hope that real love and compassion for his wife & kids are available. I always kinda felt sorry for his wife…..now more than ever. The superstar life isn’t good for anyone.

  15. RiBo,

    I’ll note #10 as I update the article shortly.

  16. Thanks Mark Driscoll ;-)

  17. # 8. I agree. Very long period of time needed for restoration and healing.

  18. He can be restored as a brother … but I wouldn’t give him the keys to another church.

    He can get a job at Walmart.

  19. He can immediately be restored to God. It will take much longer possible years for healing with his family but it is worth it and will take work. Unfortunately don’t think he should ever be restored to ministry.

  20. Well, Coy will have a chance b/c it sounds like it’s women and not men.

  21. By now we should have learned how to come to these matters. Let there be no hint of rejoicing in this sad day. A man has been overcome in a trespass, perhaps a series of trespasses. Let the people of God rally to those who are hurting and those who have been sinned against. Let the body of Christ refuse to sever a member. There are many adversaries to the life of a believer. One adversary is seduction. That is not a word to blame another person but to remember that we are often seduced by our own desires. We are all vulnerable.

    Let the rescue mission begin. Let the people who preach the forgiveness of sins demonstrate the message. Refuse to let that man and his family go. I am not talking about positional but relational restoration.

    Anyway weep with those who weep.

  22. Dread/Alan, thank you for the way you express things. It’s a gift you have that really helps me have a better understanding of things.

  23. Some who have been mistreated by Coy will rejoice and have an “I told you so” attitude and I understand that. Lots of times these powerful pastors mete out some discipline or are heavy-handed with a churchgoer and not as gracious as they could have been or maybe the pastor was wrong the “sheep” was right…and then the pastor gives them the left foot of fellowship and the rest of the ginormous following does the shunning etc….so I understand why some will have their moment of glee over this. It’s human nature. We all do it.

    I do agree with Dread as well in general and for many folks as well.

    Thanks for the attribution Michael, that’s how it went down. I attribute you and/or the blog here whenever I write about something that you broke, it’s just how it’s supposed to be done.

  24. Erunner,

    There is blood on my sword. I am just trying to do better myself. Thanks for the words. We are so angry at one another so jealous, so accusing. Want it to stop.

  25. Wow, this is shocking and very sad… I will pray for healing for his wife and marriage, and that he is broken before God because of his sin, and takes full responsibility for all of it. I hope there is a place for restoration to ministry someday also, God has used this man in a mighty way in multitudes of lives. But, if he is restored he will be like Jacob who limped for the rest of his life after he finally won God’s blessing over his life.

  26. I have absolutely no sympathy for the adulterer. First it is absolutely dishonoring and disgraceful to his wife (whether he is caught or not) – dipping his pe… in strange waters and bringing it back to his marital bed is about as low as you can get.

    If he is not happy with the wife, divorce her first and then if you want to go spread your seed, go ahead.

    I have no thoughts about his church – pastors in that arena are a dime a dozen – they can find some other untrained funny man to take his place..

  27. I think child molesters and child abusers are much worse, but then again I’m neither of those two so I am probably a bit biased.

    I’m pretty sure if it had been men, that Coy would have got nuked at a higher temperature.

  28. The vision of this church is multi-sites everywhere all under the umbrella of one man. I think they had about 10 so far. I hope they reconsider that vision in light of his failure. My ex CC pastor is following Coy in his vision of mult-sites and to me its just not a good vision at all especially when the pastor falls like this. It leaves a lot of multi-sites in the dark.

  29. My anger and frustration with Bob today is finally slipping toward thoughts about those poor souls who have to listen to 3 services of unrelated sermons in order to make it to an afternoon meeting where sadness and disappointment will rule the day. Two thirds of the congregation will be seated already knowing. I would not want to be the substitute teacher tomorrow morning. Finally starting to pray. I’m a little slow like that.

  30. There is a lot more mercy proffered on this blog this weekend regarding this matter than I read last weekend when the subject was the WV matter. Make your own application.

  31. Dear God. What are we all doing?…..

  32. Prayers for restoration and healing of the flock and his family. I must say that in knowing very little about the build up to this story, it appears that the church took much faster action in dismissing Coy than in the case of Mike Kestler. Literally, from the time of my outcries it took 10 years, many spiritually manipulated and demonized women, and a pregnant young woman (not his wife) to cause the church and his wife to finally kick him out. So, in this regard bravo to this church. God’s speed in healing for all.

  33. I would imagine if Chuck Smith were around he would probably have Coy restored in about 3 months. Chuck would say that its a shame for all the talent to be wasted. I hope wiser minds prevail.

  34. And prior to my outcries there was at least an additional decade of no accountability for the same sins. I pray Kestler hasn’t moved on to another church where he can keep the same pattern going, Unless he is truly restored spiritually to the Lord. I believe with God all things are possible. I pray Coy takes the time needed before he returns to the ministry. Unfortunately, we have seen too many pastors rush back to the pulpit without being ready and honoring God with true repentance,

  35. As far as I can see Bob Coy hasn’t been allowed to stay in his sin like the WV thing was about last week.
    He is being made a point of so that repentance can take place.
    Much different than accepting people in without repentance IMO.

  36. Lori,

    Well said…and good to see you as always.

  37. From what I heard Coy had a dozen or so businesses which were probably all ministry related. He might have resigned but I doubt the cash flow is stopping for him.

  38. For weeks we have had to listen to bozos saying that we are hypocrites for saying certain unmentionable behavior is wrong while not dealing with this type.

    This guy got thrown out immediately.

    So much for the “hypocrite” accusation.

    Sin is sin.

    This man was struggling with sin. He calls it sin, we call it sin. Now, like all humbled sinners should, may he experience effective and redemptive compassion from those that love him.

  39. Diane Coy is scheduled to speak at woman’s conference in ccphilly in a couple of weeks. I hope Joe Focht can get her story and reconsider the Moses Model and other vision casters in his region.

  40. It would be interesting to see how Bob spoke about this topic in his messages.

    I am curious about when men have this happen to them (especially if they’re caught as opposed to confessing) if there are other issues that need to be looked at?

  41. Michael, one of the best messages I heard was when you posted Bob Sweat’s message on this topic. Maybe more need to hear it. Bob is an example of what God can do with a man open to His correction.

  42. Please remember there are family members who may well read the words you are writing one day.
    Use grace.

  43. Grace indeed but the truth needs to come out. Calvary Chapel is notorious for their cover ups. lack of accountability and lack of transparency. That needs to stop and maybe this will be the watershed moment for that to happen.

  44. erunner,

    Bob asked me to remove that message, but, I completely agree.

  45. Let me also say this.
    All I have published are the bare facts that I could verify through multiple sources.
    There is obviously far more to the story that I don’t have sufficient verification on.

  46. This is awful. It’s always awful, no matter the denomination or the size of the congregation.

    It was equally awful telling a pastor friend this. It took him completely by surprise and his first concern was for the church.

    At it’s core, this is not a CC failure or a megachurch failure or a Moses-model failure. This is the real price of sin in our lives, fully on display.

    I hope that people take notice, get right if they need to and get accountable and stay that way. The cost is too high for all involved.

  47. @MartinLuthersdisciple “I have no sympathy for the adulterer”

    Hmmmm….wonder how you would’ve responded when the adulteress was thrown down at Jesus’ feet….and he responded “let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her”. Sounds like from John 8 that Jesus sure had sympathy for the adulterer.

  48. Laura,

    Good word…

  49. Thanks for sharing that Laura. I agree 100% with Michael.

  50. Lori, I can’t help but remember the hell you went through and how long it lasted. You’re a special woman. God bless.

  51. Nothing special about me, only the strength the Lord provided. And much of that strength came from the wondrous friends and counselors he put in my path such as Michael, your support and the support of so many on PP. God bless you all. Sure glad it’s over.

  52. I wonder if MLD has ever been tempted, and is not realizing that anyone of us could fall given the right circumstances. This is a subject matter that is common and not just to Calvary Chapel but to all churches and to all spheres and walks of life, and something that no one has mentioned is the spiritual warfare we are in, and how anyone who is seeking to serve the Lord or preaches his word will be attacked, it’s not surprising that Bob Coy fell, what is surprising is that more men who are serving the Lord aren’t falling. The problem with fame and fortune is that the temptations multiply a hundred fold, so don’t be surprised if you hear of more men of renown to be found out eventually as to their secret sins. When you have availability and opportunity it’s just a matter of time. This becomes a learning lesson that the bigger the church the more safeguards it has to have and the less pastor-centric it has to become. These pastors are lifted up and deified and made into celebrities, so then it becomes Bob Coy’s church Raul Ries’s church Greg Laurie’s church instead of the Church of Jesus Christ, and when these men fall the little gods we had erected fall and then we can hear God say, “I am God and I am still on the throne!”

  53. Antonio. As Chris Rock once said, “A man is as faithful as his options”. Lol.

  54. You got that right, MLD is probably 300 lbs., sitting on a big leather sofa eating popcorn as he writes, with three cats purring around him, while his wife yells from the other room, “get off the computer and take the trash out” as he answers “in a moment, I gotta write one more thing,” “I have no sympathy for adulterers, may they rot in hell!” And then he prays to himself, “Thank you God that I am not like that Bob Coy!”

  55. Antonio, I think you were best served by disagreeing with MLD. Instead you drew a caricature based on his post for your #54 and made anyone reading who might be 300 pounds feel even better about themselves.

  56. Antonio,

    Please disagree with vigor if you choose, but let’s not make it personal.

  57. Antonio,
    No I have not been tempted – but I have always made sure that i never put myself in the position to be tempted.
    I have been married over 45 yrs and am almost Muslim like when I come in the presence of other women. Doesn’t the Bible tell us to avert our eyes and not look on the oher woman?

    Now, tell me how you play around and allow yourself to be tempted. I figure that is why you are now circling your wagon around Coy.

  58. My apologies to all people who are 300 pounds or over it wasn’t my intention to insult you or hurt your feelings and my apologies to MLD in reading your post, they seemed very callous and cruel without regard for the scripture that says that we need to consider ourselves lest we also be tempted, so this caricature came to my mind but again my apologies and I want to ask the moderator to take down my previous post since I’m unable to do that,
    Thank you

  59. Antonio,

    Thank you.
    We just don’t want to have this degenerate into a personal feud.
    We’ve had too much of that here lately and it hurts us all.

  60. We all have the propensity. The Gospel is forgiveness and reconciliation. Let’s flesh this out peeps. Thank God we are saved by grace through faith…

  61. I understand, my apologies once more to the forum and MLD, how each one wants to handle their feelings in this situation whether with condemnation or mercy is between them and God! We all know the scriptures and as a previous poster mentioned “let he who is without sin cast the first stone,” to that I would add, “…considering ourselves lest we also be tempted!”

  62. Antonio,

    One more thing.
    Welcome.

  63. It’s interesting that it was Jesus who made it personal when in essence he said; you can condemn this woman if you’ve never sinned, I think specially the men need to search their hearts and ask, have I ever committed adultery, whether the actual act or lusting in my heart, have I ever viewed pornography, the scriptures say to the young man, “flee youthful lusts…” The sexual desire is stronger in our youth, so if you’re a man who’s 65-70 years old, you probably won’t have a problem or temptation in this area, your problem might be with pride, or something else, If you’re a woman you probably can’t relate to someone who has a problem with pornography, since men are visual creatures and women are feeling oriented, thus a woman’s problem might be more with gossip or romantic fantasies like they portray in these Harlequin novels, and no wonder these pastors are so idealized especially by women. We are living in times unlike any other time in history, when did you ever hear of kids sexting, porn at the click of a button, drugs (marihuana) legalized, same sex marriage being made the law of the land, it’s a war the Bible says that is raging with the devil knowing that his time is short, “woe onto you inhabitants of the earth for the devil comes down to you with great wrath knowing that his days are short”
    So we have casualties of war, BC is a casualty of this war,” one who needs healing and restoration, not expulsion and condemnation!

  64. It is surreal that the reason why I visited here over 6 years ago was because of this man and his actions against my family. Now the Holy Spirit is prompting me to pray for him and all of a sudden, the anger has been replaced by compassion. Miracles are still happening on earth. The Holy Spirit is still at work.

  65. The Lord bless you!

  66. MLD is too old to be tempted. But they do have these pills now.

  67. I said way at the top that Bob Coy can be restored as a brother. And I also said that I would not give him the keys to another church.

    When I say I have no sympathy for the adulterer, I mean I don’t but the excuses – oh, he was tempted (the other woman’s fault) – oh he is a celebrity (other people ‘s fault for putting him up too hign) -oh, well his wife got fat and ugly … you can go on and on.

    I don’t – the adulterer always chooses to dishonor and humiliate his wife. Oh, he doesn’t think that on the surface, but he knows what he is doing

    So, that’ right – I have no sympathy – especially for what may be coming Bob Coy’s way.

  68. :( one more bad guy to add to the never ending. list . The CC dove poops again

  69. Dusty, no, Steve will tell you there’s nothing but “good fruit” and clear skies and smooth sailing.

  70. You guys amaze me.

    I still recall your attitudes when Jimmy Kempner got exposed for solicitation of a woman for sex…a woman who turned out to be undercover officer for the Tustin Police. He got caught for intent and not the deed.

    Lost his church.

    Jimmy kind of got thrown under the bus, he did not get all of these gracious words for his infraction.

    On another note,

    This time around you guys got it right. I honestly applaud you. Grace and mercy abounds.

    I think that older men with less testosterone can dodge these bullets.

    Even some well known senior pastors have some unopened closets from the days of their youth.

    Every man of God gets tempted by the three “G’s.”

    Glory—(Pride)
    Gold—-(Obtaining personal financial advancement from the ministry)
    Girls—-(giving in to self serving sexual pleasure from Women)
    I think that older men with less testosterone can dodge these bullets.

    We teach the young men of God to watch for these three attacks. They are always the main arrows in the enemy quiver that are fiery darts.

    Kill the wounded!

    No, we give first aid and rehab, knowing full well that all of us have faced the same arrows. Some of us can duck arrows better then others.

    Pull the wagons in a circle and regroup.

    Lets go after Bob and not let him go from our love in Christ! He can survive this and serve the Lord. Just as Peter recovered after his denial of Christ.

  71. “CC is not all bad….its the best there is…” for getting away with bad behaviors!

  72. Your right Dusty.
    We should have stoned that adulterer. The woman got away without a scratch. What was Jesus thinking!?

  73. Sorry Michael force not biting my tongue harder and spoiling your thread.

    Night all
    (((hugs))) Michael

  74. Sorry, been in and out…long night on many fronts.
    Dusty…no issues, sis…hugs right back to you.

  75. Monk,

    Kempner had a history…and was unrepentant…until I posted the arrest record.
    You probably don’t want to go there with me, as I may know more than you want to hear.

  76. Some times I come in so late that I just leave again. But this situation hurts my heart so much. I weep for his wife and family. Not only has she been publicly shamed, in front of her friends, family and all whom she held dear, but she has been shamed by a husband who found her lacking and inadequate. Because of their public persona, people like us are also passing judgement on her personal life.

    I may know what she is feeling, how she is running it all over and over in her head trying to make sense of it, trying to protect her family.

    Someday, all our sins will be revealed, you may be surprised who has hidden this type of sin, how prevalent it is, and how many are struggling to not be exposed for fear of being treated like we are treating Bob Coy.

    I am praying for healing and peace and for the hate to be put aside and the mercy and grace of God to be poured out on all.

  77. Agreed Michael. I know nothing more then that he got caught. Did not know he was unrepentant. Changes things greatly.

    Dusty, sorry for shooting from the hip on that one. Forgive me, I was callous.

  78. Way to take it out pf context monk. And aside from that she was not making millions telling others not to do like wise

  79. Ouch

  80. GG,

    I’ll say the amen.
    Right now, my concern is for the wife, the children, and the congregation.

  81. Dusty you make an excellent point. Had not thought of that. The two faced aspect of all of this. He was divided, must have been tormenting at some point?

  82. Guess how many mainstream Christian media outlets have run this story.
    None.
    Zero.
    Nada.
    and they wonder why we need blogs…

  83. Blessings and sleep well big brother…love you

  84. Blessings and peace to you as well, Dusters.

  85. Michael, mainstream christian “media” is PR only. You won’t get hard news from them on one of the Sacred Cows…unless maybe a Ted Haggard b/c it was dude on dude.

  86. There is so much female “perfection” on the internet. They pop up on our husband’s e-mail, Facebook, etc. Did anyone see Fireproof? His wife was beautiful and she still had competition for her husband’s desires.

    How can we middle aged women compete with an image of a physically perfect 25 year old? I know I personally struggle with being physically attractive enough for my husband’s desires. It is a real problem in the church as it is in the world.

    In the days of the 6 channels that some of us remember, the temptation did not exist as it does today. The ads were not provocative- no Victoria’s secret..women did not wear undergarments in ads.. They had to buy men’s magazines to see those images. It was not readily available.

  87. Anonymous – don’t buy the lie – men do not cheat because an ad pops up on their FB page.

    A man who cheats does so because he is a cheater and has no respect for his wife.

  88. Bob and family obviously don’t want to face any more humiliation. He really should have thought this one out.

    Has happened before…

    Jimmy Baker ended up serving five years in jail of his 45 year sentence. All after his Jessica Hahn scandal as a minister. He wrote a very good book, “I Was Wrong” in 1996.

    The IRS went after Jimmy. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported that Bakker still owes the IRS about $6 million.

    Jerry Falwell took over after Jimmy.

    Jerry Falwell called Bakker a liar, an embezzler, a sexual deviant, and “the greatest scab and cancer on the face of Christianity in 2,000 years of church history”

    In 1988, Falwell said that the Bakker scandal had “strengthened broadcast evangelism and made Christianity stronger, more mature and more committed.”

    Bakker’s son, Jay, wrote in 2001 that the Bakkers felt betrayed by Falwell, whom they thought, at the time of Bakker’s resignation, intended to help in Bakker’s eventual restoration as head of the PTL ministry organization.

    I wonder how this Bob Coy episode of Christian failure will end.

    So sad and troubling!

  89. I suspect the local media in Florida will be all over this as things unfold. When a Todd Bently or a Jim Bakker fell it was a totally different reaction for me as I saw them as dangerous men due to their teaching, etc. With Bob Coy I immediately think of healing for him and the family as I didn’t consider him as dangerous to the body. Either way it’s wrong to take satisfaction as I did when others have fallen. At least it is for me….

  90. Michael and erunner, thank you for the kind words.

    MLD, you have the right of it. I actually have a lot of experience in having to deal with unwanted attention from married men both at work and at church. I am not honking my own horn here, either. I am not particularly attractive and it never ceases to amaze and disgust me when men will make a fool out of themselves in front of me and horribly, in front of their wives.

    Lust mixed with selfishness is one of the more toxic cocktails we can create.

    And it is so very easy to fall prey to.

  91. I watch and listen at work, family gatherings, wherever it might be – the way married men will talk to women who are not their wives, the sexual jokes, the sexual innuendos, telling private stories about themselves and their wives.

    I have always been amazed … I wouldn’t know how to tell a dirty joke or swear in front of a strange woman.

  92. What’s the rationale for removing all of a guy’s teaching from the internet when he fails morally. Is it all false because he fell short. Better perforate your Bibles if that is so.

  93. Babs,
    As we were talking about a couple of weeks ago – perhaps Coy owns the intellectual property. So, when they said, “clean out your desk, he did.”

  94. Hey,
    Open Blogging was closed and I would usually post something like this there, but I really liked this book and wanted people to get a review of it and see why I liked it.

    http://derekthornton71.blogspot.com/2014/04/fallen-king-cirian-war-saga-by-eric.html

    This is the book advertised by EricL on the side bar.
    I loved the book and I want y’all to pop over, read the review and see reasons why I think you would like it too.

  95. Interesting point and something Brodersen/CCCM and Smiths/TWFT are battling over…the IP of Chuck Smith and if his work was his or the property of CCCM.

  96. As an attendee of this church I am shocked and disappointed. The worship leader left a few months back with no explanation. I now wonder how long leadership has been aware of issue.

  97. It could very well be that Coy had them take his stuff down, not the other way around. Time will tell.

  98. I totally agree anon. The internet and increased availability of sexual content, both in the explosion of “adult entertainment” and media in general has really opened the door to men (and boys and women and girls) to be exposed to so much. you can sit in your home, not spend a dime and the world of sex is at your fingertips.

    MLD, I would love to meet you someday, as you are the only man I have heard of who does not struggle with this in some way.

    I was exposed to pornography at a very early age. Every man in my life has had some struggle with it, in some way. I struggle with hate for it, and my own self image because of It. I have trust issues and the thickest walls imaginable.

    Please try to have compassion and understanding for those who struggle with sexual sin. Even through my anger and hurt, I know that it is just a sin, and that they are no worse than me when I lie or steal.

  99. “MLD, I would love to meet you someday, as you are the only man I have heard of who does not struggle with this in some way.”

    LOL. That’s getting copied and pasted and saved to be used a lot in the future :-)

  100. Gomer
    “MLD, I would love to meet you someday, as you are the only man I have heard of who does not struggle with this in some way.”

    Have you surveyed all men to know that I am the only one. My point was that I do not put myself in a position to be tempted. As I said above, look how many men think that the light casual joking around is not harmful – when they are actually sending out and allowing themselves to receive horny vibes.

  101. I’m out for the night.

  102. RB,
    “LOL. That’s getting copied and pasted and saved to be used a lot in the future ”

    So Coy gets the pass because it is normal and I get the ridicule. Sounds typical.

  103. David,
    Jerry Falwell despised Bakker because of his theology and his lifestyle. It probably didn’t help that Doug Oldham had defected and gone from the Old Time Gospel Hour to Jimmy’s show. He circled Bakker’s property like a vulture and tried to save it or use it to his advantage. it really bothered me what Falwell said and how he acted. Bakker was a victim of his own beliefs. Jessica Hahn was a plant and Bakker was a willing stooge but I still felt bad for him.

  104. This is really funny – have all of you married guys been tempted and have actually struggled to not have an affair.
    It’s actually a struggle for you to keep your commitment to your wife? It is a struggle not to disrespect and dishonor her?

    You actually contemplate cheating on your wife because something as trivial as an ad pops up on your FB page? You had better get pants with a stronger zipper if that is the case.

  105. Tammy Faye took her make up and ran.

  106. I meant no disrespect. I have been tempted to be unfaithful, yeah, and it’s not funny. I love my husband and I don’t want to be divorced, but when things have been unhappy between us, I have had to literally run away from sin because I was tempted to allow someone else to give me emotional support that should have come from my own husband, but wasn’t at the time. I craved the emotional and physical support I wasn’t getting. I have consciously stopped being friends with certain guys because there was too much of a bond being created that could have gone on to be something more. And what about the women who throw themselves at a man saying suggestive things zany wearing provocative clothing with the intent of tempting them? You have been well shelterd if you are so unaware of what happens in the real world.

  107. This thread is too important and affects too many people to allow the personal conflicts on it.
    Gary, if you have an issue you can email me .
    phoenixpreacher@gmail.com

  108. Michael
    Can the post I sent last night at 11pm still be posted?

  109. We all need to take the telephone pole out of our own eye before we look at the speck of dust in our brothers eye. Bob has helped save thousands with his teaching and we should leave the punishment up to God and pray that he will repent and use this fall to come back stronger than ever. Don’t give the devil his way and cast stones. Pray for Bob in this very dark hour for many.

  110. Bob,

    You must have wrote it after I closed the thread.
    I can’t find it on the backend.

  111. Amen

  112. Bummer!

    I don’t know if I can remember everything I said.

  113. I am deeply stunned, sickened, hurt and devastated about this news. I have just called the church and confirmed. God loves Pastor Bob and so do I. We all fall short of the Kingdom and I was just feeling very deeply convicted this morning about how I fail God. Show me one person who has not or does not. We are all sinners and can do nothing without God. I pray for our fallen pastor and his family and all of my brothers and sisters in Christ who are hurting. Please remember the mercy and forgiveness that out Heavenly Father has shown you before you judge or cast stones.

  114. Once again MLD is right. This is irritating.

  115. I agree, let’s drop the rocks and pray for Pastor Bob and his family. It is not material at this point whether anyone was complicit or the Moses model created this situation. Not one is perfect and we all fall short.

  116. I do not judge him. I forgive him and i still love him. Hes a great teaching no matter what. Nobody should jugde him he is human NOT god. Everybody sins. Nobody is perfect. God doesn’t jugde nor hold this against him. Pastor Bob has said time & time again that you dont go to church for him you go to church for a connection to god. NOBODY forget that because yes i kniw he did something bad but god doesnt deserve you walking away from him for a mans mistake

  117. Pray for Bob and his family.He is only human.We are all sinners.The devil is hard at work all over the world.Follow Jesus.He will not foresake you.

  118. Was awake a lot last night both praying and reliving my own similar, tho much smaller scale experience. No way around the fallout. High profile and untouchable positions can only lead to catastrophic collapse like this. Their lives will never be the same. Ever. Total identity loss. Loss of friends. Loss off ‘place’ in church culture. Loss of respect. Loss of a job, insurance, future employment, loss of career. For Diane, all the skills gained at being a pastor’s wife are now useless. Decades of life wasted. Yes, wasted. Lots of questions now. “What else was I wrong about?” “Who cares about me now that I’m not influential or important?”. Life now consists of unfair scorn for Diane and the kids…. I actually feel sorry for Bob. Sin nature is pervasive no matter who you are in church culture. We are sinners. Always til Eternity.
    IMO, in many ways, this is a ‘good’ thing. Truth and reality may arise for all involved.

  119. My Prayers and heart go to Bob Coy and his family. God has not finished the work that He started in this man, and He will work His miracles to restore what we as people see doomed. We are all vulnerable and weak!! At times like this we as Christians need to be more like Jesus and have lots of compassion towards a man who at least for me taught me how to have a true relationship with God and no one can take that away from Bob. The hearts that through him were opened to accept Jesus as their saviors will always be in God’s heart. Regardless of what Bob has done, that should not interfere with our relationship with God, we have to stand strong in our faith and love for Him. We need to pray hard for this man and his family because the enemy is fighting intensely to bring the faithful down. Calvary Chapel will always be my church, I never went there thinking that my pastors were saints, I went their to learn how to become a better person, how to live a faithful life with God, how to try and become more like Jesus “TRY” because no one in this planet has walked without sin except JESUS.

  120. His congregation will continue to thrive and fight the good fight of faith. Pastor bob always taught us to keep our eyes on Christ not man. I hope you all dont choke on these morsels of gossip. Tell me why you need to be the first w news rather than respecting the church body and unity of faith and respecting that as a congregation, we need to be together to receive our family update. Whether it be true or not we will always love Pastor Bob and Diane. To know love is the greatest…..certainly the church body has some seeking to do. I could.just throw up from the intentions of the church, surely the Spirit of God is more grieved in this than the sanctification process that may be happening in my home church

  121. I agree with CLEMENCIA

  122. I told Michael he could post a thread to what I shared at Grants Pass almost 8 years ago. The sin that I spoke about happened 24 years ago, but the hurt caused is still fresh in my heart. I have been told my counselors, pastors, and friends to let it go because God has forgiven me. Yes, Praise God He has, but forgiveness does not always cancel consequences.

    For the people at CC Fort Lauderdale, and the family of Bob Coy we should grieve and pray for the pain and disappointment, and even betrayal they must feel. This is not a time to gloat that a prominent CC pastor has fallen. I pray that Bob would be broken over his failure as a husband, father, and pastor. I pray that his marriage survives, and his children will forgive him. I pray there would not be a desire for restoration to the pulpit, but a desire for restoration with God, his wife, children, and others that he has let down.

    Most here know of my desire to minister to pastors who have fallen, and God has allowed me to reach out in the past as names where brought to me. I hope in time Bob will have someone reach out to him as I have dear people and pastors reach out to me.

    I appreciate what Alan wrote last night, and look forward to what he will continue to share. In the meantime, I trust we will mourn and pray for a fallen brother.

  123. My husband and I were members of Calvary Chapel Ft. Lauderdale for 14 years, we left 7 years ago to move to South Carolina..We loved Pastor Bob and his family and what he and Pastor Fidel did to bring Calvary to where it is today it is amazing……. Satan is a liar, a thief and that is why it is soooo important for the body of Christ to pray for ALL pastors and their families and for all churches…and for our own families….continually…….I can’t be there for the meeting but my friends will be and they will be heartbroken……..but we need to pray for Diane and the children and Not look at them wrongly……Pastor Bob needs continual prayer because I know with all my heart if he could turn back the clock he would have asked for help….. Calvary was his life and his families…… years ago in another church I was in a similar thing happened …..the pastor had built the church up to an enormous congregation in Orlando…….and years later he came back not to his church but to ministries and the end of his life was his best……. We must forgive him………it could happen to anyone and remember to watch your words,,,,,,don’t ever say you would never do it……because those who say it……..always seem to fall in the area they say they would never…… God Bless Diane….the children and Pastor Bob and all the Calvary Ft. Lauderdale Families and everyone he affected…..

  124. jma,

    This story broke yesterday morning online before I ever wrote a word.
    I was able to get some details on the matter and published yesterday afternoon.
    I do not have an exact timeline for when the board fired Coy, but they are the ones who have chosen to not speak to the situation yet.
    They had the opportunity to speak clearly to this before anyone else.
    Coy has had a national ministry, not just one to the local church and his fall is a matter of national news.

  125. Jesus,Jesus, Jesus…….in everything I’ve read, not one has acknowledged that He died for this very reason………EVERYONE OF US IS GUILTY…. Look at bob through the eyes of Jesus…then post your comments on how you see him…..

  126. I’m glad Pastor Chuck was spared from this. Lets not forget that we are all susceptible to sin and God can heal broken hearts. God forgives immediately upon repentence, so are we going to condemn Bob? Can Bob recover? I think so in time. Can the congregation recover? In time. Lets start with forgiveness and reconciliation and look at the bigger picture– as a sinner he will be more effective as an example to the unsaved. If Bob leaves satan wins.

  127. Bob,

    I listened to it again and it’s as powerful as the first time we posted it.
    Thank you for giving us this resource.

  128. This is exactly why we are to rely on God and not in man. Coys teaching was always excellent. The problem is that he is human. We have to consider this each time we place anyone near to or above God.

  129. Thank you Bob Sweat, Paige and others who have gone through this…thank you for speaking truth and speaking with love and grace.
    My heart has been so heavy since I heard of this. So many people will be hurt by this.

  130. I’ll be blunt.
    I’m not too concerned about Bob Coy right now.
    I’m concerned with those whose lives have been shattered by Bob Coy’s choices.
    No one is denying that grace, forgiveness, and redemption are available to him and all of us who are sinners by birth and by choice…but lets focus on the wounded before the wounder.

  131. Devastated, I left my home church because of Bob Coys candid sermons that are always delivered with been there done that backround..I,m on my knees for him and his family knowing that what Michael before me said is all true..very sad

  132. As I read posts of support, I want to point out that there were many of us who attended this church faithfully for many years..and we were indirectly harmed by this church under this man’s leadership- If you did not fit into the “box” you were forced out. If you were trying to help and that help in some way exposed something evil-there were plans to rid of you.

    I suffered many years after leaving this church. Physically and mentally- and this blog helped me tremendously because there were others here who shared the same story.

    I have sympathy for this man (and especially his innocent family) because the Lord is instructing me in compassion, I also know that it has taken many years for my family to recover from the harm and hypocrisy of the leadership of this church under the helm of this man. We were very involved. We have been waiting for him to make things right. It hasn’t and will never happen. Maybe perhaps there is hope.

    I don’t take pleasure in his fall but it appeared inevitable.

  133. Michael

    As an attendee of Calvary FTL I disagree. We are called to put our faith in Jesus not Bob. Yes I am disappointed but Bob is a man. He failed, that’s what men do. Put your trust in the One who will not fail you. I have prayed mightily for Bob, Diane and their two teenage children and I have prayed for all the saints. We have an enemy and it is not Pastor Bob.

  134. findre,
    “This is exactly why we are to rely on God and not in man. ”

    No, there are 2 parts to this – God’s and man’s. It is good if god wants to forgive, show grace and restore Bob Coy.

    However, on man’s side if Bob Coy were married to my sister, things would be different. If he had been going around dipping his quill in several other inkwells and coming back to sis for access … you get the picture, I would personally go over to him and beat him up and help toss his butt out of the house.

    Is there a man here who would NOT do the same. Is there a man here who would go over and console Coy at the expense of his sister.

    Time to man up folks.

  135. This bears to be repeated:

    “I’ll be blunt.
    I’m not too concerned about Bob Coy right now.”

    Why?

    Because the whole reason to deal with this kind of sin in the community is what it does to the community. Bob knew all the more well what he was doing, there wasn’t some demon forcing him into this action.

    Bob deserves what ever happens to him and has others said that does not include returning to his post as pastor.

  136. The fig tree was a representation of the leadership in Jerusalem and what did Jesus say to it when it had no fruit?

    Even the disciples were surprised by what happened.

  137. I’m more sympathetic to the people like Anonymous above than to Coy. Coy is a big boy and knew full well what he was doing, he got caught and now it’s time to pay the piper.

    Of course there is grace for sinners, no one is arguing otherwise. If there wasn’t grace then all would be toast. In fact, I personally believe in a good and loving God who will forgive all his enemies in the end…of which we are all enemies of God as well as his children. Man has a dual nature.

    The earthly issue? Well when you do bad stuff and get caught sometimes you have to pay a price and I’m not sure it is the best thing for churches to put guys right back in Positions of Trust and power over folks telling them how to live and what to do etc.

    I’m not really a fan of the pastor-centric model for this reason. I don’t think any men are really qualified to be put up on that sort of mega-church pedestal.

    I am glad to see the Board either making a deal to buy Coy out or maybe the Board had the power in the by-laws to deal with a moral failure like this…dunno, but do know that you can’t really have a CC-style church that puts some much emphasis on their brand of “transformation” Gospel while pointing fingers at those outside the church for stuff like gay marriage etc…and then have a guy in that CC pulpit that is addicted to p0rn and having relations with multiple women who are not his wife.

  138. A core of my current belief system is that none are truly “transformed” when they are saved. We’re the same sinners as before. Too much evidence to convince me otherwise. Coy isn’t “not saved” for his moral failure, he’s simply human with a dual nature that can produce both good and bad fruit from the same tree….just as atheist friends of mine and Mormon friends of mine produce both good fruit (sometimes more than evangelicals) and bad fruit from the same tree.

    None are anointed in this age, none are special, none are “transformed” in a practical sense. We still sin, we still are capable of the same evils as prior to being saved and that’s why accountability measures in the churches and checks and balances to power in both religion and politics is vitally necessary.

  139. “To err is human…to forgive..divine.” Pastor Bob has always reminded his congregation that they should look to Christ…and not to man. My prayers are with Pastor Bob, Diane, and the kids. My family loves Pastor Bob and his leadership and every week he led hundreds to our Savior. Thank God for grace and mercy…since none of us is without sin. Let’s come together as a body and shame the devil.

  140. I hear the CC folks come on hear and proclaim…”well we’re all sinners and only Jesus was perfect!”…yet they give Jesus-like powers to their Pastor rock star leaders in the form of the Moses Model where the Senior Pastor has all the power.

    Power corrupts and if you know your pastor isn’t Jesus, then don’t tempt him and stumble him with all that power that only a Jesus wouldn’t be corrupted by.

  141. Calvary Chapel has a flawed view of Leadership.

    All the CC folks on here are quick to point out that the CC leaders are sinners and flawed.

    Yes, they are.

    OK, then don’t tempt them by giving them too much power and authority. Share the power. Chuck Smith didn’t like sharing power with the congregation which is why he started his own brand of doing church, his own denomination in essence, that consolidated the Power into the role of the Senior Pastor.

    Bad, dangerous.

    You know these guys are sinners and men and not Jesus, just like the rest of us…yet you allow your Church System to put them on a pedestal and give them all the Power at a particular CC franchise by design…it’s a CC distinctive. This is bad for the pastor, bad for the general congregation. It’s too much temptation, too much power, causes too much pride, etc.

    That is Calvary Chapel’s biggest failure, an arrogant view of the Pastor and his ability to be Jesus…and it’s made worse when the congregants know this and still support a flawed leadership model that is a corrupting force among the Pastors in Calvary Chapel.

  142. RiBo, A man posted yesterday on FB that something like 40% of pastors struggle with some sort of sexual sin. If true that absolutely stuns me. It also seems to be an across the board thing crossing doctrinal and denominational lines not limited to one type of church governance.

    Reading Paige’s comments really brought home for me the absolute horror for the wife of a pastor who falls in such a big way. Right now I agree that the church in Florida needs to rally around Bob’s wife and children while at the same time taking necessary steps in church discipline towards Bob that he would overcome these sins and salvage his marriage and the relationships with his children if that’s still possible.

    God takes this specific sin very seriously as He allows for divorce when it takes place.

    More details are sure to come out and let’s hope and pray for the best as time moves forward. And in this case the best may not be for Bob to return to active ministry.

  143. Bob Coy is a man……….one of the main problems with “sheep” is that they start to put too much into “the pastor”, instead of putting it all on the Lord. People have gifts, given by God – apt to speak is one of them. Problem is it turns into pride and a business instead of a ministry. Too many people look at their pastor or sr. pastor, vs.the congregation being pointed to the Lord.

    Feel bad for the whole situation

    All parties suffer

    The devil is busy

    Set your mind on things above

  144. E said, “A man posted yesterday on FB that something like 40% of pastors struggle with some sort of sexual sin. If true that absolutely stuns me. It also seems to be an across the board thing crossing doctrinal and denominational lines not limited to one type of church governance.”

    Yes, all the more evidence that men are still sinners after they are “saved”…there is no “transformation”…men still sin in the same or different areas as before they were saved.

    Governance Model does not dictate whether a pastor is more or less a sinner…it recognizes the fact the pastor is a sinner and provides checks and balances against too much pastor-centric power that is a corrupting force.

  145. I had a CC’er proclaim on the other blog one time, “Chuck would NEVER lie!”

    …and I commented, “wow, that’s amazing…you mean Chuck Smith is perfect now like Jesus and he’s never lied since he became ‘saved’? That’s rather incredible.”

  146. I understand giving Bob grace. I need it just as much (or more) than he does. The one thing I’d point out is that like so many other CC he was always preaching about behavior as well as “keeping our eyes on Jesus”. Things like not drinking beer or lusting after women. It’s the theology of sin management so inherit in CC theology. If he was a preacher of grace and not telling me what to do on the radio this might not be so hypocritical. Where am I wrong on this?

  147. The danger with the Calvary Chapel “transformation Gospel” is that it makes your ‘walk’ and your “fruit” the evidence of your official saved-ness.

    This dynamic makes guys like Coy hide their sin for a long time b/c they know if they’re caught, the game is up and they’re exposed for not being “saved” or not being “specially anointed” etc in the CC mindset…and they lose their power and career.

    We aren’t saved by our actions, we aren’t saved by our morality, we aren’t saved by our ‘correct doctrine’

  148. I find it ridiculous to blame cheating on power and authority.
    That seems to say that if you are have no power and authority then you won’t cheat.
    Someone needs to tell so many of the poor men with ordinary jobs I have known throughout life who cheated anyways that they were breaking a stereotype.

  149. Derek I blame cheating not on power and authority but on man’s dual nature and non-transformed salvation.

    I am pointing out the fact that giving flawed man too much power and authority is corrupting in both politics and religion…no matter how “specially anointed” they claim they are or how endorsed they are by Chuck Smith etc.

  150. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Fact.

  151. The way we are transformed is by accepting the Rest that remains.

  152. RiBo @ 145 “Yes, all the more evidence that men are still sinners after they are “saved”…there is no “transformation”…men still sin in the same or different areas as before they were saved.”

    I admit that I sin regularly yet there has been a transformation that has taken place within me. The things I did before coming to Christ came naturally and I had no problem doing them. Lusting, stealing, cursing, etc.

    The transformation that has taken place is that when I sin there is conviction that takes place reminding me that what I have done or thought is wrong.

    So yes we still sin after salvation as our flesh and spirit do battle and will continue to do so until the day we die. As time goes on we grow and are sanctified as we choose to do those things that are right and lament the things we do wrong.

    There is a reason God forgives us. It’s because we do sin. He knew that all along. If we find ourselves taking joy in the sins of others we need to take a serious self inventory as we aren’t what we imagine we are and in need of forgiveness ourselves.

  153. We aren’t really transformed in a manner any different than Mormons or Atheists or others who make a decision to be more or less moral in our lives. We all have Consciences and generally know right from wrong (some disagree on some issues as being moral or immoral but in general).

    Many get off drugs w/o evangelical christianity, many turn themselves around from alcohol or gambling or other vices w/o evangelical christianity.

    Many evangelicals get ‘saved’ and still do the same sins as before or trade them in for worse sins.

    We are all human and all the same essentially…though fundamentalist Islam seems to be the worst religious ideology of all-time and the most dangerous and destructive.

    You may respond to the Gospel and be ‘saved’, sure. But that doesn’t mean you are any less capable of doing the same bad things you did before you were officially “saved”…and the mindset is that, “Well he’d never do that, he’s been transformed by the power of Jesus!”…well, no, that isn’t true. None are incapable of doing very bad things after they are saved and many on here point to guys like King David who was a polygamist who had sex slaves, committed adultery, murdered the husband of his mistress and was generally a bad guy for big chunks of his life…yet he was a “man after God’s own heart”.

    Now the “Lordship salvation, works righteousness” folks will claim if you don’t sin less after you are saved, significantly less…then your salvation didn’t take. Well, that’s simply not true either and not quantifiable. Most of those folks may stop sinning in some areas, but then the sin of “pride” and self-righteousness (which the bible says “god hates”) seems to dog this Group post-saved.

    The truth is we don’t know very much and the only thing we can do is acknowledge what little facts we have here on earth: 1. Man is capable of all sorts of evil even “saved” 2. Accountability measures and shared power help mitigate both temptation and abuses…in government and religion. 3. God will show love and mercy to whoever he wants…and it might just be all humans at some point. We don’t really know why God didn’t send the “Gospel message” to most of humanity and we don’t know why God doesn’t make us “sin no more” when we are supposedly saved.

  154. We love you pastor bob..u r man and we fail…but God forgives…who knows that better than u. Be strong and have Faith..
    Everyone loves u and repentance will heal..prayers to u and your family.

  155. To all of those who are criticizing: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Pastor Bob was my pastor for 20 years, and my heart is broken. I am praying for him, his family, and his church. We are called to love and forgive. Hate the sin; love the sinner. Although Bob was a pastor of a mega church and held to a higher standard, he is still a human being, and human beings are flawed sinners. Not one of us is perfect, which is why we are to put our faith in the Lord, not in man. May the Lord forgive each one of you, as well, who are rejoicing in the fall of a beloved preacher. Peace.

  156. RiBo wrote: “The danger with the Calvary Chapel “transformation Gospel” is that it makes your ‘walk’ and your “fruit” the evidence of your official saved-ness”

    Which is the essence of the lordship salvation false gospel. It falsely teaches that a person must walk “well enough” to “prove” that they were saved. And this is no strike whatsoever at Coy. The fact of the matter is, this doctrine has probably been used by Coy over the years to strike at others. Coy is lordship salvation enough that he has undoubtedly taught it in such a way as, now, the finger is pointed at him.

  157. E, that mindset makes your continuing sin worse as you then are aware of what you are doing is wrong but do it anyway. That’s worse than not knowing you are doing wrong. When you knowingly sin then, post-saved, you are willfully being an enemy of God and we all do it b/c we are all aware of our sin and we sin anyway.

    Even more reason the “transformation” gospel is a myth.

  158. E, I would also question that you didn’t know right from wrong before you were saved. You surely must’ve know that stealing was wrong or dealing drugs was wrong or fornicating was wrong etc. All folks pretty much have a good sense of right and wrong whether or not they are ‘saved’ by an evangelical gospel construct.

  159. Michael and Bob Sweat,

    Thank you for posting such a powerful and healing message. I had not heard it before today and I am glad I did.

    As someone who has been a casualty of infidelity, such candor and humility helps to answer some of my own long unhealed hurts from that time.

    Nearly 18 years on and there is still so much for the Lord to heal.

    I will be praying for CCFTL and the Coy family; this is going to be felt a very long time indeed.

  160. E, my atheist friends know right from wrong. They know it is wrong of them to commit adultery if they are married, they know it’s wrong to steal, wrong to hurt other people etc and they know it’s right to give money to help the poor and they know it’s right to be a “good Samaritan” etc. They did not need a “transformation” gospel to know right and wrong and to choose to do good things.

  161. Not good. Another explosive comment on the other blog about Coy.

  162. That’s how these things tend to go, much harder to hide the stuff in this day and age.

  163. Laura,

    That’s all Bob…and I appreciate him greatly.

  164. God bless you Ft Laud peeps who drop in. This place has a gifting for helping saints deal with things like you are going thru. Hope you stick around.

    It is a pretty open forum with some troubled and offensive types, but also many who have learned through experience to get things into perspective.

    May today’s revelations be just one more step in your growth as a person of faith.

  165. Let’s not use this thread for our personal theological musings, please.
    Let’s let our new folks visit and vent.

  166. No one is perfect. We all make mistakes and we must pray for him. Not judge him!!

  167. They have chosen not to broadcast the “family meeting” about this matter from Ft. Lauderdale.

    “Our passion and purpose is to make disciples by connecting you with God’s Word through a variety of digital and media platforms. Our reach is vast and includes TV programming, radio broadcast, video blog, podcast, digital music, and social media or print publishing resources. Our goal is to help you along your discipleship journey and enjoy a full life as a follower of Christ.”

    Evidently the “vast reach” doesn’t include responsibility to inform all those “reached”.

  168. Welcome to those who found this blog due to Bob Coy’s fall, my heart and prayers go out to you as you navigate this difficult time.

    I have read here for many years, but only post occasionally.

    A couple of observations:

    Most of the regular posters, find no glee in what has happened. Though we may seem callous about what has transpired, that could not be further from the truth. Most of us ended up here due to similar circumstances, i.e. finding out our churches and pastors had failings and unrepentant sin. Or worse yet, intentionally sinning with the attitude of easy grace for themselves, but holding the congregation to a higher standard.

    Blogging by nature is a difficult medium and it can be problematic at times to understand the intent of a poster.

    Again, welcome. It is my hope and prayer that you find healing and peace.

  169. Back 160 yrs ago Martin Stephan led the Lutherans from Saxony to America. They could not take the invasion of their religion as the king of Prussia made them worship with the Calvinists … that’ another story.

    So he led the people through the Port of New Orleans and up the Mississippi River to St Louis in what began the LCMS. But after a short time, good old Martin Stephan was caught diddling the girls and dipping into the funds. Now this man was their bishop and without a bishop they were not sure if they would still be a church … what to do?

    They said to heck with it, we cannot put up with Bishop Stephan any longer, so they gathered his stuff and put him and his stuff in a canoe, and sent him across the river and told him not to come back.

    May the same be done to Bob Coy. (may be a bit more difficult as I am sure his ‘stuff’ would fill a yacht … if it indeed does not already include a yacht..

  170. “Evidently the “vast reach” doesn’t include responsibility to inform all those “reached”.”

    It never is. When it comes to blasting issues like Gay marriage from the pulpits…CC uses newspaper, tv, radio you name it.

    When it comes to judging their own sin…”private meeting” and “don’t judge!”

  171. saddened by the news regarding BC and CCFL. may God give wisdom, grace, and comfort to all those affected. for those of us in the cheap seats, it might be wise to be prayerfully patient & turn the hobby horses out to pasture for a bit.

  172. Had a phone call and was ready to continue a bit with RiBo but think it best to set it aside as there are tons of people reading now and also per Michael’s request @ 166.

  173. If a Pastor is sinning in his personal life, how can I have confidence in what he says from the pulpit?

    This is what is so frustrating to me. If I am not blindly loyal to my megachurch Pastor I am considered rebellious. However, if the Pastor fails, I am called to be forgiving and cut him slack.

  174. In other news: It has been confirmed Goonies 2 is happening!

  175. jlo,

    Thank you and amen…

  176. Goonies 2 LOL Can’t wait. ;)

  177. I’m still waiting for Super Troopers 2 over here, but will have to check out Goonies 2 as well :-)

  178. What is the biblical model for dealing with leaders who blatently sin? Paul dealt with this.

  179. All sin is equal. We all sin, but this is heartbreaking.

  180. @175 Michelle,

    I’ve sat under some horrible pastors that taught fairly well. I learned to trust God to receive the meat of His word and to spit out the bones of man’s opinion. Our loyalty is to Jesus Christ. As a pastor, I don’t want people to blindly follow me. At times I feel I get a lot of unnecessary flack from some people, but they have to feel comfortable in expressing their opinion, even if I disagree. My only advice for you regarding any place that is demanding blind loyalty/obedience is this: run and find a place where you trust the pastor and yet also feel that you have the freedom for healthy disagreement.

  181. Just wanted to validate jlos welcome. She and others back their words of welcome to you with their sincere words of prayer for you.

  182. Martin Luther’s Disciple

  183. “According to sources familiar with the matter, Coy confessed to key leaders on Wednesday. A board meeting was called on Thursday in which he confessed and resigned.

    “Leadership made every effort to let the staff and church hear directly from leadership rather than rumor by calling meetings for Sunday,” our source, who asked not to be identified, told us.

    An open church service on Sunday at 4 p.m. included worship, reading of a letter from Coy and the reading of a statement from board, followed by honest sharing of a reminder that Jesus is leading and that the church will move forward together. That was followed by more worship. Sources tell Charisma News there was a positive response from the staff and congregation.

    Coy and family have spent much of last few days with pastors and friends in prayer and counseling.

    The media ministry of the Active Word that distributes his Bible teachings through radio, television, and digital media has also been suspended, according to a statement from the church board.

    “Pastor Bob will be focusing his full attention on his personal relationship with God and with his family. The governing board of the church is providing counselors and ministers who will help guide him through the process of full repentance, cleansing and restoration,” the statement reads.

    “Trusting in God’s providence, protection, provision and direction, the staff of Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale will continue our mission to ‘make disciples,’ through regular services at all campuses and through myriad other ministries the church has established over the years.”

    The statement went on to say that a team of assistant pastors already on staff will maintain their usual rotating schedule as teaching pastors for all services.

    “Recognizing we serve a God of second chances and that our hope is in Him,” the statement concludes, “the leadership, staff and members of Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale have joined together in prayer for Pastor Bob and his family during this time of healing.”

  184. There is more going on at this church than just this infidelity. Check felony records of the school substitute teacher. .As well as dcf reports on her. She works with children! Saw something bad coming at the church when they allow immoral behavior by their congregation and do nothing. Lots of stories here. Sad but true.

  185. Martin Luther’s Disciple ~ Take heed proud guy, least you with all your proud “grace” fall also. Beating a brother up as you mention I’m sure is not what Jesus meant by loving your enemy and turning the other cheek! While you are rejoicing in the fall of another… you should do your home work and renounce you idol worship of your anti-Jewish god Luther, along with the “gracious” burn them at the stake unrepented Calvin.

  186. IMO, in situations such as these adultery and the sexual temptation is not the core issue but is rather a symptom.

    The core issue is a sense of self oriented privilege that arises from the prestige and power. When you live in the mindset of the privileged then you begin to objectify everything in terms of how it takes care of “you”.

    With Jesus we called to personify everything,meaning we are to relate everything to the glory of God and to value the interests of others.

    When we objectify we act as gods. When we personify we learn to practice loving God and others as we live in His presence as we live together with others.

    If you never lived together with others then you have never lead “Jesus Style” and problems will eventually surface when you fail to lead in this way.

  187. Which is the essence of the lordship salvation false gospel. It falsely teaches that a person must walk “well enough” to “prove” that they were saved.
    _____________________________________________________________________
    Andy, you are completely wrong with this! Tell me one Christian that doesn’t consider Jesus Lord and I will tell you they are not a Christian. Lordship doesn’t mean sinless but you can’t have Jesus as savior without Him also as Lord they go together.

  188. Andrew, Michale requested that theological debates cease immediately, to let people here grieve if they so choose. I have respected his request. I suggest you would be considered a loving person for doing the same.

  189. Whether you are a participant in CCFL or not, the bigger picture here is that Pastor Bob is not Jesus! He is a human that, if I may point out, has transformed MANY MANY MANY lives over several years and has grown CCFL into an amazing place of worship. No one is perfect, that’s why we are just human flesh. Let’s give him room to breathe and an opportunity to make things right with God, then his family before we are so quick to cast stones. Most of us live in glass houses anyway. Do not get fixated on the trashy tabloids and rumors, but try to put yourself in Bob’s shoes, or his family’s for that matter.

  190. KMOA. Do you realize that you rightly distinguished Bob Coy as a mere man from Jesus Christ the head of His Church and in the next sentence wrongly ascribed to Bob the works and fruit of Jesus Christ? Jesus transforms, not a pastor. Jesus builds a church,not a pastor.

  191. “He is a human that, if I may point out, has transformed MANY MANY MANY lives over several years and has grown CCFL into an amazing place of worship”

    I can’t agree with this statement at all. Isn’t it the Lord Jesus that transforms lives and grows places of worship? I know the poster meant well, but this seems to be the kind of pastor worship that causes these problems in the first place, and lets pastors feel invincible for years of sin.

  192. Ok, I’ll just vent then. I completely agree with Michelle @175

  193. As one who lives here in S.FL, there is nothing in the news about this. A few things to keep in mind… BC may have said look to Jesus but his actions did not. There are MANY CC satellite churches in this whole region, all 3 counties, that “beam” him in via video for Sunday services… all of them depend on BC’s teaching and preaching. So even though they have campus pastors, no one was felt to equal BC. Sad, very sad because this affects many congregations, not just FTL.

    This church has operated as BC was the end all be all. They have been given that power, as was Coy. If someone tried to start a ministry that they had no control over (even Bible studies) they were often shut down.

    One person cannot have all that autonomy and control. It is never healthy.

  194. God bless you Pastor Bob, Diane and your children. We are all sinners, we are taught to forgive, and I forgive you. Thank you for the many years you have pastored Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale, through your words and God’s grace my husband got saved. Your blessed sermons brought so many to the Lord. You will never be forgotten! I hope you come back, so many love you and God loves you more!

  195. and also, after reading the article in Charisma, “The governing board of the church is providing counselors and ministers who will help guide him” ….. uh, what about for the congregation?????? and someone from the OUTSIDE…. who can be objective and NOT tell people to just forgive…. people need to vent, to be angry, to feel betrayed and to weep. Will they be allowed?

  196. calvaryftl.org is wasting no time wiping out the name of Bob Coy from their webpage. He’s off the list of pastors, the history of the church gives no mention of him, and the sermon library is “unavailable at this time”. I don’t think I’ve ever seen this happen quite so quickly.

  197. I am happy that Coy has at his disposal round the clock ministry partners, Pastors, counselors.
    All the best that money can buy.
    All to help him and his family get over this.
    What did we get when we were lied about, shunned by others who were too loyal to even ask what happened to us… and raked over the hot coals by him and his leadership?
    We did not have the luxury of all those in ministry on his payroll.
    We were alone–it was impossible to get good counseling because everyone in the county knew him and it was a conflict of interest.
    We had to depend on recommended books and the Lord….and blogs like this.

    I am sorry for sounding so bitter. I guess the scars remain although toughened with time.

  198. And the local newspapers would never write anything negative about him. He’s too plugged in there.

  199. Over the years he and other associate pastors hired family members and close friends. This is not good, and this is what can happen. Power and money corrupt, and NO ONE is exempt from the temptation to cross moral lines. Those in moral authority are more accountable than the flock. What Calvary does now, will be interesting to see. I think they need to clean house in order to restore confidence.

  200. The majority of this thread is a disgrace to anyone who calls themself a Christian. You’ve turned the sad reality of sin into flaming arrows of hate and spite towards eachother instead of being Christ-like and loving the sinner (everyone). Of course…leave it to the Pharisees to fight amongst, not for, themselves. Let them tear eachother apart like wolves.

  201. JB, your Coy worship is showing. Let’s wait and see how many women he defiled. Let’s wait and see how many he harassed and pressured.

    Let’s see how many marriages this man has destroyed in his church. This will blow up to be a lifetime deal on Coy’s part. You may buy the old line “well we were just standing there and our clothes fell off…” I don’t.

    I already said he can be restored as a brother, and I have said that God can show him grace and forgiveness and provide restoration.

  202. The Charisma article makes it sound like Coy will be back soon.A little rest, a little prayer, some CCFL counseling, a tweak here and a tweak there, problem all gone.

  203. My prayer is that the people of God will intercede for this family and stop throwing rocks into a glass house.. As we look at the fall of David, Moses and others in the word, what makes Bob Coy any different then those mentioned. As a matter of fact is your life faultless?..I know mine isn’t yet we strive for wholeness in Him. Isn’t this why our precious savior came? Let us gather in prayer for the church, the family as well as for Bob that restoration, deliverance be thy restored.
    Lastly, it is time that the church look not to men yet to God. The problem has been evident that many raise there pastors up as idols. thus becoming co dependent on the pastor for their fresh word rather than studying the word themselves. We need to have discernment these days otherwise many shall be deceived. Time to Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.2Tim 2:15

  204. MLD,

    My information is that he doesn’t have a snowballs chance in hell of coming back.

  205. Michael, Concerning your #131 post… In the aftermath of what happened to me at a CC church with a serial adulterer (most of you know of whom I speak,) I have maintained off and on contact these past ten years with 4 of the women who also told this pastor NO when he propositioned them. I lost my job because of saying NO, but was made to look like I was a horrible employee. All of the women he did this to were also demonized as he tried to cover his sin. It also took us all years to get over it mentally and spiritually. We all had the church turn its back on us as if we were liars and the pastor had his board…aka henchmen literally try to chase my family out of town to keep us quiet. We had our home broken into, my husband’s car damaged, my SUV’s lug nuts loosened on one wheel where I could have had an accident, unknown men sat in front of our house stalking us, we had a hangman’s noose placed in our tree, and while moving under the cover of night (in the same city) we where discovered within hours of where we had moved. People would drive by our home, honk their horns and scream terrible things at us. When we finally gave in and moved to another city, we were followed and found there, and had more personal property damage done to us. Others who knew of this pastors sin and felt the Lord’s call to also speak up, had dead birds put in their mailboxes and were threatened in other ways as well. I felt the call to stand up for righteousness and expose this pastor after I learned of the many women who suffered the same thing before me and had many people come against me for that, too, which really hurt. My heart’s desire was for healing and restoration of the many people he hurt and for his repentance.

    My children very young at the time and all of this confused them. Two of my three children still struggle with doubt in their faith and I can not believe our experience didn’t have something to do with it. I will never stop praying that the Lord restores them to fully walk with and trust in the Lord again. I know He is not finished with them yet and I will always believe in His promises to never leave or depart from them!

    The best counsel I received was to keep my eyes on Jesus and off of man. We will all disappoint others, we all sin, but Christ will always be there for us and will never let us down. I do pray for the restoration of Bob and his family. BUT, as Michael mentioned in the post above, the need for prayer for the wounded is so vitally important. Please don’t forget them in your prayers that God will put godly counselors in their paths to help them with their pain, their fear, and more than likely their doubt in their own faith.

    It amazed me that this pastor was able to convince his church that he had done no wrong and that because of his amazing ministry the devil was trying to tear it down. His church believed that lie for another ten years, until he finally got a young woman, a babe in Christ, pregnant and so FINALLY the church and his wife kicked him out.

    I pray that Bob Coy hasn’t left decades of bodies in his wake, and I will be praying for them (nameless as they may be to me) and for his church and family to recover. I pray that he must show true repentance and fruit before he is ever allowed to preach from any pulpit, and I pray that process is not rushed along as we often have seen happen in the past with other fallen pastors.

  206. Sorry…guess this was already posted

  207. I find some reaction funny – I just read one comment elsewhere that said “I am so deeply saddened that this has happened to him and his family.”

    What???? This didn’t HAPPEN to him – He HAPPENED to many others. BC is not a victim – he is a victimizer.

  208. Stop this! He resigned he was not fired! He confessed to his moral failing and is focusing his time on repairing his relationship with God and his family.

    There was no word of any affair, nor his family leaving him.

    I’m a line cook (staff member) at Calvary chapels restaurant “The Grill”, I went to the church staff meeting at 2:30 today (4/6/14) where this information was officially announced.

    Please do not judge my pastor so harshly. The word of God tells us,

    “For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.”(Romans 3:23 NLT)

    NO man is perfect! It pains me to see the enemy has won this battle, but know he will not win the war!

    Join together in prayer for Pastor Bob Coy and his family!

    Don’t go on sites like this where they’re sole purpose is to gossip and spread lies.

    Seek in PRAYER Gods truth! Not mans.

  209. Linnea,

    It’s all good…glad you came by.

  210. Muhammed,

    He resigned because he had no choice.
    There are multiple known affairs.
    His family is leaving.
    Period.

  211. MLD,

    You and I argue a lot…but I’m in agreement with you on this matter.

  212. Lori, thank you for sharing your story. I’ve heard bits and pieces of it, but never read it all. I’m so glad you kept your eyes on Jesus and didn’t let men destroy your faith.
    I’m praying for your kids tonight.

  213. Michael,
    We don;t argue … we chat from different view points. ;-)

  214. Pride paves the way to infidelity and/or sexual indiscretions. The perpetrator must be removed form the pedestal men have placed him on in order to allow restoration to begin. Humiliation breeds humility. The guilty person must be reprimanded publicly to generate remorse that may lead to his repentance. The duration of absence from leadership should be commensurate with the size of the flock he shepherded and the duration of the corruption. The consequences suffered by the fallen leader will be very instrumental to how the sheep, who are in this flock, respond when faced with their own similar temptations. Punishment is for both, the guilty person, and for all the onlookers to witness the aftermath of disobedience. Mercy should not be misused to render punishment ineffective for both.

  215. Lori,

    I’m not going to print anything that I can’t verify, but I have the same fears you do.

  216. Thank you, Nonnie for your prayers for my children! <3

  217. I trip on all you. So what your all saying is your stronger than samson, you love God more than David and your wiser than Solomon. You never know what you’d do if you were in his position.thats like a bum saying he’d never do what a rich man would do. I still love pastor Bob.

  218. True repentance bears fruit. Confession is step one. Apologies are step two. Restoration is step three. Willingness to do whatever the board and congregation require is step four. Maybe I don’t have the steps in order but you get my drift.

    True confession accepts 100% of the blame. No excuses, no buts. Same with apologies. Restoration is made as one is able whether it’s money or whatever.

  219. Eddie,
    ” I still love pastor Bob.”

    You’re not mad at him even a little?

  220. @pierreduelz “The duration of absence from leadership should be commensurate with the size of the flock he shepherded and the duration of the corruption.”

    That is just ridiculous. It’s up to God whether or not Bob Coy is restored to leadership of any kind and that is not on any one man’s timetable or ratio. Our focus as sinners needs to be on the health of our individual, intimate relationship with Him. Leadership is not a right, its a privilege.

    When we forget that, that’s when we abuse the offices entrusted to us, men and women both. For many people, “restoration” mistakenly means the duration before the erring pastor is behind the pulpit again. How sad.

    Our relationships with Jesus need to matter more than getting up in front of a crowd does.

  221. I still live Pastor Bob.
    no im not angry.
    even a little.
    im sad. For everyone.
    meanwhile im still waiting for the false teachers in my area to be exposed like Maldonado, Grambling, etc. CCFtl was the only Bible based church for miles.

  222. We are all fools if we judge a fellow brother….to the amount of forgiveness and grace and mercy we give, it is given to us….go light on your brother, for we have been forgiven much.. anything else is not of Christ….beware….and anyone who tries to twist it, discipline is always meant for restoration…. do unto others as you would have done to you…. I know I know you would never do such a thing…. The Lord Knows. All. Of. Your. Closet. #RealLove

  223. To all the negative comments… He is a man. And like all of us born a sinnner. He made it public and we are no one to judge. This is between God, his family and him. He’s resigned so let it be. Remember how many people he has helped.

  224. On another note, are we also praying for those women with whom he had affairs? What about them? What about their families? They need our prayers. As Michael said, I care more about the victims than the victimize at this point. God is and will continue to deal with Bob. Those in his wake need compassion.

  225. awesome. You got a star on your forehead you don’t cheat on your wife. All sin is equal. Which sin are you guilty of? I’ll go first. I admit that I on occasion, more often than I’m comfortable with I struggle with trusting God. I’m what you call a baby Christian. Your turn.

  226. how do you know Pastor Bob wasn’t victimize? I’ve experienced firsthand how these women throw themselves at him and its disgusting.

  227. Wow I did not know there were so many perfect people in the world. Sin is sin. We must keep our eyes fixed on JESUS. Praying for all involved and also praying for those casting stones and pointing fingers

  228. Really? That’s not being victimized, that’s being tempted by women who need healing not exploitation. When one is so charismatic and manipulative, it is not hard to distinguish between the 2 for me. You, on the other hand, seem to have difficulty. That may sound petty, but really, your comment is, well, naive.

  229. well then go ahead by all means please cast the first stone. God sees everything.

  230. pS Don’t forget to include Delilah in your prayers tonight:)

  231. How is asking for prayer casting a stone about something for which he has admitted? I sin. Daily. That does not negate another’s sin.

  232. And btw, “to anon” I’m guessing you have never ever ever commented on Ted Haggart, Jim Bakker, your boss, neighbor, etc. Good for you. Carry on.

  233. So here is one for you. Bob Coy did not address the congregation on Sunday. Why? He had other associate pastors go publicly in front of the congregation after their infidelity. As it is biblical to do so. He even had his own brother stand in front of thousands to apologize.

    Someone earlier said that porn is a symptom. You are correct. It is pride that is the root of that sin. Pride is something that could be seen from his pulpit for many years now. When my wife and I first started attending CCFL in ’93 he preached with humility and it was refreshing. I remember in the late 90’s Pastor Stefan asking Bob, “when is big too big?” and Bob claiming, “it’s never too big”. Well my friends it will not be too big anymore. Can’t seem to wonder if Pastor Clay knew something and that is why he resigned the end of last year. As well as Pastor mark left but I’m sure everyone feels that is because of something Mark did.

    Bob Coy is very intimidating and you cannot cross him. He loved having “yes men” around him. Don’t ever disagree with him because he will pull out more bible passages and have your head spinning so fast that you will feel you are wrong.

    I did ask Bob about the female dress attire in the early 2000s I was told, “we don’t want to turn off a new believer by offending them”. (All about keeping that large congregation I guess). It must be ok to allow our men to struggle with viewing women in tight clothes, low-neck shirts, or high skirts.

    Yes, I was on staff a long time ago and didn’t like the behind the scenes stuff. I too had “moral failure” well after I stepped away from staff. I still attend CCFL because I believe that I can help some of the younger members.
    I remember when and Bob Coy with Pastor Mark Davis called me to confront me on my infidelity. Yes, I had to come clean and it was a struggle. Through that rehabilitation, I became a better man. God also allowed me to be able to talk with someone and tell if they were struggling. Bad part is that I had to sit quiet because there is no evidence. I blame myself somewhat for allowing myself to be afraid of confronting him since I had no physical evidence.

    We can all get through this. If you are in contact with Coy, tell him to go to Pure Life Ministries. It will do him wonders. There are a lot of Calvary Chapelites out there that almost worship Bob more than Christ. My prayers are for them that they don’t fall away, that they don’t dismiss this and purely look the other way. It scares me when I read he should still be the pastor. No, he needs some healing and then he can work his way back into place just as two of the current worship members did and are clean now.

    And yes I have seen it all and have the scoop. Its not pretty but I love them all because my eyes are not on man they are on The Man.

  234. my point exactly. He admitted to it. He resigned. He is trying to restore his family. Can you please point me to the confession of these women? Or are they not equally guilty.

  235. “Stop this! He resigned he was not fired! He confessed to his moral failing and is focusing his time on repairing his relationship with God and his family.”

    My headline says “resigned” b/c that’s the info I was given…quite different than “fired”

    The official press release says “resigned”

    Which is it? Resigned or fired? Big difference.

  236. “So here is one for you. Bob Coy did not address the congregation on Sunday. Why? He had other associate pastors go publicly in front of the congregation after their infidelity. As it is biblical to do so. He even had his own brother stand in front of thousands to apologize.”

    I don’t like that at all. That’s the kind of crap my step-dad CC pastor pulled.

    One harsh standard for others…then “grace!” and “mercy!” and not the same standard when it’s time for the pastor to pay for his sins.

  237. Baker and haggard were false teachers. my neighbors are heathens and not under the law of Christ.further I will be raising you in prayer because you obviously need it since you’re so bitter and are caring so much burden. Give it to God. Really. He will heal it.

  238. No man’s gifts and abilities are so necessary to God’s work that he (God) will violate his own word and wink at that man’s seemingly covered and hidden sin.

    Unfortunately, Bob Coy like thousands of ministers and leaders throughout the ages before him, thought that the means and process and seeming results justified the end.

    It never does…

    I empathize with those of you who have have called Bob your Pastor. I can understand why you might take offense by what appears to be piling on here on a blog like this. However, Bob has disqualified himself, perhaps for the rest of his life, from the office of Pastor.

    Leaders who fall into sexual sin are generally never the same once the sin exposed, even when repentance and remorse is demonstrated.

    It is a very serious and high calling…

    That said, of course we all pray for his restoration to God, for his marriage, his family and those of you who entrusted yourself to his leadership.

    May God have mercy, and may God use situations like this to remind all of us just how vulnerable we are when we do that which is right in our own eyes.

  239. Please adjust your headline to resign. You’re saying he was fired which is inaccurate. if not you would be guilty of bearing false witness. Just saying.

  240. My information says fired.
    I’m not here to parrot press releases.

  241. well obviously your information is wrong.

  242. Bad choices can entrap us, but with God we can hope for healing in this situation.
    God can bring restoration- please Lord, help the Coy family.
    Jesus loves him and his family very much.

  243. When you are dealing with human resource issues at a corporate level there are legal and illegal ways to speak of a persons departure from the company.
    When someone calls a corporation for a reference most will only speak to whether the person is eligible to rehire or not.
    Reading something about the spiritual state of a released preacher by how the press release is worded is sheer folly.

  244. to the one who calls himself ‘to anon’
    “how do you know Pastor Bob wasn’t victimize? I’ve experienced firsthand how these women throw themselves at him and its disgusting.”

    And did you go to bed with them? Did you commit adultery with them? What was the result of your victimization?

  245. What usually happens in these situations is that after the offense is noted and documented the person is given the option to leave voluntarily or be forced out.
    If the preponderance of evidence makes it useless to fight, they “resign”.
    That is how it is then noted in the employees record.

  246. Michael, come on now. This is the church were talking about. He resigned. Unless you have any evidence to prove differently you are wrong.

  247. Thanks mld. I got tired of responding to the nonsense. That person is praying for me? Really? No thanks. I do just fine praying for myself. No bitterness here. Just tired of picking up the pieces of the wreckage. So pray for those left in the wake that HE made.

  248. The conversation is humorous. Isn’t it cute when we call it ‘moral failure’.

  249. really? Who assigned you the daunting task of “picking up the pieces”? maybe you could pray for everyone and call it a day.

  250. This church is a huge corporation and operates by the laws of the State of Florida and the U.S.
    It must and does operate by the same worldly standards as any other corporation.

    It boggles my mind…boggles it…that you want to haggle over the terms of removal of someone who we now know had at least two affairs and a porn problem.

  251. all speculation your honor. I would like to see some evidence for your claims.

  252. Actually God assigned me to the task since that is the ministry He called me to. And I pick up the pieces of sin’s wake daily. So if you have a problem with that, take it up with God. Not me. Blessings…

  253. It’s not speculation.
    If you’re so incredibly stupid as to think I’d print something that inflammatory without proof, I really can’t help you.
    I did the change the headline to “removed” so as not to get caught up in ridiculous minutia.

  254. well praying for you. Sounds like you have job security then. Good for you.

  255. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. no takers? ok. I thought so. Now lets help him get back to his feet.

  256. Does anyone want to say anything about the women? isnt she half of the problem?

  257. The women weren’t in a position of power and trust and in covenant with another woman.

  258. Ok. we still want to see evidence. I think its a fair request.

  259. Then go to the board of CCFTL and get it…

  260. so it takes two to tango? Yes or no. Both guilty? Yes or no. I say yes.

  261. well is that what you did? or are you just repeating here say? This is very important Michael.

  262. Both guilty, but with massively different responsibilities before God.

  263. I have documentation.
    If I need to defend myself, I have documentation to prove every word.
    Period.

  264. bring it.

  265. What’s the big deal, so he diddled a few broads, weren’t they consenting adults, how can anyone judge, maybe they had an open marriage, comman people relax it’s only sex, it only last a few minutes, what is that, like less than 5% of all the other things he’s doing for the church, leave the guy alone, I don’t see any women complaining, didn’t King David have a few dozen women standing in the wings waiting for their turn, and how bout Solomon, a few hundred to choose from, well don’t read their works in your Bible then, and isn’t every pastor guilty of adultery if you take Jesus words seriously, that to look upon a woman with lust you’ve already committed adultery, using this criteria shouldn’t every pastor in America be fired, give the guy a break, he’s a good teacher, everyone strays a little bit and has a little strange on the side, many wives know this and realize it doesn’t mean anything, just a little release. Didn’t God provide for this with the whole concubine thing.

  266. Get your own.
    I did.
    Ask your leadership why they aren’t telling you the whole truth.

  267. I did. I have. Which is precisely why I’m questioning you.

  268. Michael, you know that this thread is going to deteriorate.

    Might I ask, other than providing a platform for the information about what has happened with Bob Coy to be disseminated, what are you hoping will be accomplished (as a minister of the gospel yourself) will be accomplished by publishing this information?

    I think that would be helpful to know. Thank you!

  269. You’re free not to believe me.
    However, keep in mind that Coy would sue me into oblivion if I was wrong.
    I have to be totally confident that I’m right.
    I am.

  270. thank you so very much for that. That is precisely what I was working my way to. After all fired makes for a much better scandal then resigned. Especially when you twist the truth and cannot backup your allegations.

  271. see that’s where it gets tricky. If you are indeed saying the truth. And you can prove it. Them coy has no grounds to sue you. Unless you are being slanderous libel and defamation of character. Just saying. he made a huge mistake. He confessed to it. He resigned. He’s aiming for restoration. What would Jesus do?

  272. Scott,

    This thread will be closed shortly so I can have an evening to do other things.
    There are a multitude of reasons why this is important information and depending on when you ask me, you’ll get a different answer.
    We who are conservative Christians love to lecture the world about “their” sins.
    When we fall, we have to model the humility and fidelity to the Scriptures that we demand they recognize….then model the love, grace, and restoration to the body that proves our complete fidelity.
    There are a lot of conversations we need to have…and I have some folks working on those conversations for the coming week.

  273. Just think if David was removed as king for his indescretions, his adultery and then setting up the killing of her husband. Yes, God judged him, but was restored, and he was still king, leading the people.
    He does need some time out [sorry, lol, seems funny, no pun intended] as he sets himself aside in repentance and prayer as to the Lord, but, sometimes we judge too harshly as if we know all things when it is God who knows all things.
    May we be in prayer for him, lest we be found with that same measurement being measured back unto us.
    Just saying….

  274. Michael, I look forward to the upcoming week then as it pertains to reading what those “folks working on those conversations” have to say.

    Thank you.

  275. Did he confess before or after he was busted?
    What did he confess too?

    The difference between “fired” and resigned” in corporate America is usually a matter of semantics and legality, not repentance.

  276. just a kind reminder that Pastor Bob coy and his family are human beins with feelings and I can’t reconcile my mind why something like this that could cause so much harm especially to his two children you would proceed with. I sincerely hope you prayed about this before you set out to broadcast it to the entire world.

  277. Michael, how would you feel if you are saying was known and left a cyber carbon print? we his congregation, and his family, are the ones that need to deal with it yes or no? how are you furthering ring the kingdom with this blog? what is your real motives for this?

  278. Who is his congregation?
    He boasted of a “vast media reach”.
    Do those people have a right to know?

  279. Michael said, “Who is his congregation?
    He boasted of a “vast media reach”.
    Do those people have a right to know?”

    Very much agreed.

    Again, shout it to the masses when it’s other people’s sins like gay marriage etc…or make assistant pastors go before the church and confess (Bob Grenier did that stuff)…but ‘grace’ and ‘mercy’ and ‘let’s give the family their privacy’ etc when it’s the Senior Pastor’s turn to face the music.

    I don’t like the double standard.

    I could see being gracious to a guy who practiced and modeled it and was truly private…but the fact is Coy was a big time celebrity (and probably will be again) and he had a broad “congregation” and broad viewership…and it’s probably right to let everyone know what happened…which as usual the blogs are standing in the accountability gap.

  280. YES and his congregation knows and it was handled perfectly. Did God appoint you to broadcast this? Were you directed by the Holy Spirit? what is your motive for this? What do you wish to accomplish with this? How is this furthering the kingdom?

  281. The Bible is brutally honest about the failings of the heros of the faith. Should we handle this any differently?

    I think – I would be interested in other perspectives – that the truth is part of the healing process.

  282. Actually CCFL did issue a media/press release so in that sense they are using the media to get the word out about the situation. Florida newspapers are covering it now.

  283. And CCFL did issue an article on their blog and they are allowing blog comments so that’s much better than in the past with CC issues.

  284. I have not been to this site in quite sometime (If anyone doubts that , I’m sure Michael can verify that, right Michael?) I’d just like to ask a simple question. When, oh when will the sin sniffing and salivating over someones “moral failure”come to an end? I know for sure that I would’t want my own sin, and hypocrisy exposed for the whole world to see. And neither would you Michael. Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone. I’m a wretched sinful person. And so are you. I don’t give a rip if you allow this past the moderation phase or not! I’m just sick to death of Christians jumping all over each other when they’ve fallen. Michael, my cell phone is if You have anything you’d like to say to me. And I’ll be glad to talk with you via Skype, FaceTime, or in person about my comments if we ever happen to be close enough to each other. I’m just sick of it….Stop already, close this piece of garbage sight down and stop digging up peoples sin, and causing division in the body.

  285. well I should hope they would. That is actually their responsibility. I’m just trying to figure out why Michaels on the take. Any ideas? I like to know everyone’s sin here and blog about it. That’s fair right?

  286. Frank, are you cool with Calvary Chapel pastors “judging” those outside their church who are gay and want to get married? Where is your indignation over that? Why can’t you have the same “stop digging up peoples sin!” when it comes to the homosexual community?

    1 Corinthians 5:12

  287. Funny how there’s one standard someone has about bearing false witness to their buddy and another one for me…

  288. I have witnessed decades of the David example being taught by CC pastors to justify restoration of sexually sinning leaders. They always fail to note the huge differences between the king and themselves. David did not have the risen Jesus supposedly living in his heart, nor the power and anointing of the holy spirit that they claim, as current day proponents of the good news. I call it the most bs example and cop out of all the other bs to come down the CC pike over the years. Ironic that having 2 parts of a supposed godhead personally active in ones life isn’t enough protection from seductive women.

  289. Amen brother. Then non believers wonder why Christians are the only ones to kill their wounded. Jesus must be so proud of all of us right now:(

  290. Time for dinner.
    We’re closed for the night.

  291. what is ‘moral failure’ referring to?

  292. It’s their soft term for adultery. I think quoting one of the ten commandments isn’t politically correct.

  293. No sin overtakes us, except what is common to man. (1 Cor. 10:13) Every man needs accountability. Unfortunately, many accountability relationships fail for a variety of reasons. Please download this free book to help men you know establish Gospel-centered accountability that lasts: “Coming Clean: Overcoming Lust Through Biblical Accountability.” http://www.covenanteyes.com/accountability-partner-ebook/

  294. TLLOM-

    ‘I think quoting one of the ten commandments isn’t politically correct’

    Priceless

  295. Having read some of the comments posted, I am dissapointed at the lack of compassion and those with self-righteous attitudes. Are you really without sin in your life? You don’t have to answer that. Not one of us is truly living a life of purityand are struggling with some kind of sin. That’s why we have Jesus. We all know that we are all sinners saved only by God’s grace. Pray for Pastor Bob, his wife and family and the CC Ft. Lauderdale staff and congregation. Be careful, any of us could be next…

  296. “Be careful, any of us could be next…” that’s true. We all sin. I just wish I could walk away from everything with millions in my pocket when I get caught. Sure would make the shame easier to bear.

    None of us can understand how that kind of money can insulate us from anything we don’t want to deal with.

  297. Mr. Newnham….what is your source on this? not to cast doubt on your reporting or professional abilities, but this is a serious allegation, and deserves all investigation and information gathering before any public news report is made regarding the particularities of Mr. Coy’s problems…and those should remain between he and his family in any event! Please reveal your sources, or at least generically their affiliation to Calvary Chapel…or leave the story alone and let the church handle it in house….thank you, AND GOD BLESS YOU!!

  298. fscaduto,
    Who are you to establish the guidelines of internet journalism?

  299. The church has had every opportunity to deal with this story.
    Throwing me under the bus is not a wise or godly decision.

  300. Any recent full frontals of his mistresses? This is very important for forgiveness and redemption.

  301. Little Light,

    Sounds like the sin isn’t what concerns you but it’s about the money. Something wrong there. God doesn’t care how much money a person has. Sin is sin regardless and it seperates us from Him.

  302. For the imature in Christ…continue to drink your milk…we are praying for you. For the mature in Christ…it shows how the solid food does you well….please pray for all involved as you are doing.

  303. Hey , “Martin Luther’s disciple”, You might be better off being a disciple of Jesus ! Do you think that this is the only sin we are all vulnerable to ? You may act almost Muslim like around women like you say but there are a lot of ways the devil can knock you on your can too. Not everyone has the same weakness so “Let him who has no sin throw the first rock” ! I’m not going to Judge anybody, the behavior is absolutely wrong but Pastor Coy is still one of God’s Children , you loose your fellowship with Him until you truly repent and change course but you do not loose your salvation, that would make Jesus a failure and that my friend is Impossible, no one can take His sheep from his hand. I’ll be praying for him, Diane and his kids as well as for the impact this will have on CC of Ftl. Because of the way The Holy Spirit used Pastor Bob’s Ministry my Wife , kids and I are all saved !
    Baptized ! and going to Heaven! NOTHING can take that away ! I love him as my true brother in the Lord and because his weakness overtook him will not change that. The Pastor role is a different matter. but don’t confuse the two ! Give Mercy and you will find mercy !

  304. Little Light,

    “I just wish I could walk away from everything with millions in my pocket when I get caught. Sure would make the shame easier to bear.”

    Do you REALLY think that the shame would be easier to bear?

  305. Amen Shredder….Amen

  306. Your pastorking has gotten caught. I’m sure he was forced to leave and CC is doing everything they can to make sure that he will not be remembered. He is being destroyed in the media and the usual covering has not been applied by CCCM. Coy is twisting in the wind. When Smith burnt people down like this they never came back.

    CC has deleted him from their history. That doesn’t happen unless you do something really bad, not just adultery. Normally Chuck would have not wasted this asset unless what Coy did was to outrageous to cover up. I can’t believe that CCCM has changed that much since Chuck went Dodo bird. Coy sales millions and that has all changed.

    I bet now that this is being covered by the big media outlets that more will come out. I bet the line of women giving interviews is long and loud. Why else would Mrs. Coy leave? Something really big is going to come out soon.

  307. Mrs Coy left?

  308. Mark, are you kidding? Yes I do. Money creates a disconnect. Power and fame increases that chasm and insulates man from the accountable nudges from the Holy Spirit.

    A poor man has the few options left to him when she leaves him with his shame. A rich man has freedom to embrace the world. Deny that all you want, it’s the truth and you are a foolish if you think he is not doing his best to forget this happened for awhile.

    No one will recognize him on the beaches of South France or strolling through Florence. Yes he lost his Kingdom but he gets to keep the treasure!

  309. It’s hard for these followers of men to part with their pastorkings. It was hard for all of us when we were in your position. I will pray that your eyes open and that you will not fall into the same trap as we all did before.

    Put away your golden calf and stop your man worship.

  310. Oh, Florida of little faith! The Bible spells out exactly what must be done: “And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.” (Leviticus 20:10) Are any of the Lord God’s words clearer than these: “the adulterer … shall surely be put to death”? The Bible is inerrant. What’s George Zimmerman up to these days?

  311. Brood of Vipers

  312. Pastor Bob Coy left with his family. Time for restoration. Thank you Jesus, your mercies are new every day:)

  313. People just don’t like the bible when it doesn’t suit their faith. Coy obviously didn’t teach the “whole counsel” “verse by verse”.

    People picked up real rocks, not words.

  314. We are all susceptible to temptation and sin until the day we are redeemed and changed incorruptible. I would hope all even those closely associated and even directly hurt would dig deeply to not bring more disappointment to Christ by acting in a Unchristian like manner. We Christians are bound by scripture to be Christ-like in these instances. My prayers are with all concerned.

  315. Muhammad Ibn-Raqib : You are so right ! He might have won this particular battle, at least temporarily but we read the ending to the story and The Lord Wins and us with Him ! Let’s you and I join in prayer along with all the others that are doing the same thing for Pastor Bob and pray that The Lord will deliver him from this horrible thing. Thank you for posting the info about the 2:30 pm meeting. That has calmed my spirit a little. Anyone can fall at anytime ! I don’t understand the part about bringing pride into this in some of the comments. Not only is he a humble man for someone who held that position for so long but pride does not throw you into that kind of sin, it’s if anything, coveting what is not yours that does. Everyone does that, just with different things. I understand the severity of this.
    The only thing that covers ALL of us who are fallen to begin with is the “Blood of The Lamb of God” which was shed at Calvary and that covers Pastor Bob right now too !
    Let’s pray for him , his wife and his children until they are healed and restored and he is forgiven by The Lord , if not already
    !

    Whoever is talking about pride ? Just go to Benny Hinn’s website if you want that ?
    I should not even have put that but I couldn’t resist it, him and his 10 million dollar estate.

  316. Very sad. Thoughts and prayers go out to a fallen brother, his wife and children, his church family and the church leadership as they determine the scriptural course of action. We all have our personal emotional responses, but scripture should always be our guide and it certainly is not silent in how to deal with such situations. Some have suggested there are others on CC’s staff who are guilty of similar secret sins. Trust me friends, the “moral failure” is not so uncommon amongst leaders and parishioners within our churches and something we should all give deep, hard consideration to in our personal lives. Could your husband or wife do (or be doing ) such a thing? Bob Coy is the tip of the iceberg and gets special attention because of his position, but his fellow sinners are legion. Sexual sin is appealing, addictive and readily available especially in this internet age and when the relationship at home is not following God’s plan and design (and yes, it even happens in homes of church leaders) it gives way to “justification” for sin to prevail. Bob Coy is fortunate because his sin was found out. He has opportunity to confess, repent and turn back to the faith he knows so well. He’s also fortunate to have a leadership willing to assist in his restoration and a congregation that will be praying for him. But in your praying don’t forget those who are at the bottom of the iceberg who are actively involved in their secret sin of choice and will continue to do so as long as they’re not found out and as long as they ignore the conviction of the Holy Spirit. They are the one’s truly in need of prayer. And they are legion.

  317. Time to sniif out Michael Newhams sin:)

  318. 1 JOHN 1:8 – If we claim to be without sin,we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

  319. Ya because he has 20k followers that he lies to daily. Good idea, Michael can we get you to “confess” like Coy?

  320. Yes…very important to kill the messenger.
    Unreal…

  321. I’m sure he sins just like the rest of us. But there is a big difference.

  322. Michael Newham, have you ever committed adultery? or fornication? after being a Christian?

  323. #325 Is that Biblical? Really? What does numbers have to do with anything? Is all sin equal to God? Before this Blog Newhman had maybe 5 readers. What is HIS selfish and SATAN centered motive for this exposure?????? Do you think God is happy with Newnham right now? Coy and his family are OUR FAMILY IN CHRIST! THIS IS DISGUSTING and not of God. This post is the work of SATAN.

  324. Hugh,

    I’m not married.
    This isn’t about me, and by making it about me, you bear false witness and sin yourself.

  325. 326 MICHAEL WHO MADE YOU MESSENGER?????????? Did the Holy Spirit reveal this to you? Did God ask you to do this? WHY WHY WHY? Why kick a wounded brother in Christ????? What sin are you guilty off?????? God will not be mocked. You wait your turn.

  326. just a question, Michael, you should be able to answer, we all should be transparent, especially you since you are a pastor, you were married right? why did your wife divorce you, were you unfaithful?

  327. LOL, go and pray about it. What you are saying is exactly what you are doing. Who made you Coy’s torpedo? Get over yourself.

  328. How long did you stay out of ministry before you came back, what measures did you take to make sure you didn’t sin again, does your present congregation know of your adulterous past?

  329. 1 Peter 4:8 Most important of all, continue to show deep love for each other, for love covers a multitude of sins.

    Coy is guilty. He confessed. He is in the process of restoration.

    Michael, what is your intention with this? This is a test from God and you have failed it miserably my friend,

  330. Hugh,

    You are a liar and you need to repent.
    I’ve never been married.

  331. not being married doesn’t answer the question, that’s why i said fornication, or do you feel that if you’re not married you can sleep with someone without being married, also when was the last time you viewed pornography?….remember lying is a sin!

  332. David was a man after God’s own heart. Think about that, in light of David’s Bethsheba story. In light of that, the apparent glee/self righteousness voiced by some above/previously sickens me. “Seven times seven….” Please, keep the balance and consider your own sins and the grace that is undeserving, (undeserved favor) has been extended to all of us. Process and healing will take time. But pray for those who obviously need it and consider your ability to forgive as you would pray He would forgive you, for we all have sinned and fallen short. Some are called to a higher level and accountability, and how much more do they need our prayer and support?

  333. Krent W,
    what was the one condition Jesus allowed for a divorce?

    following your convoluted reasoning, a wife should forgive her husband 490+ trysts with the bathsheba of his choice.

  334. NO WHERE IN CALVARY’S STATEMENTS HAVE THEY MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT PASTOR BOB HAVING A PROBLEM WITH PORNOGRAPHY!!!!!!!! STOP SPREADING GOSSIP PLEASE. ALL THEY HAVE SAID WAS MORAL FAILURE NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS.

  335. considering there is no evidence of what his “moral failing” was and no one has “confirmed” his “affairs” and his family is still in florida, I think you should wait and check your facts or state your source before making such a statement. God is forgiving, you should be too. dont condemn someone on rumors.

  336. I also want to point out that Pastor Bob resigned, he was not fired. you really are a gossip monger.

  337. Debbie, Larry…the next few days are going to be very difficult for you.
    You will have new people to blame for the fact that your pastor couldn’t keep his pants on.

  338. Pastor Bob was screwing women other than his wife.
    Deal with that and then come talk to me.

  339. why do the most ardent Coy defenders have to use capital letters and too much punctuation?

  340. They want me know they’re yelling…

  341. does that make you the scapegoat? ;)

  342. It’s interesting Michael has yet to answer the question about his own sins. WHAT HAPPENED THAT YOU’RE STILL SINGLE, DO YOU STRUGGLE WITH SEXUAL ATTRACTION TOWARDS THE SAME SEX, OR ARE YOU TRULY A EUNUCH FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD? AND HAVE YOU EVER VIEWED PORNOGRAPHY, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME, AND WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR YOUR EXCOMMUNICATION? BE TRUTHFUL AND HONEST, OR YOU’LL NEVER EXPERIENCE TRUE HEALING!

  343. Michael, you’re kicking against God’s goading and your colors are showing. Stop being so vindictive and pray for a Christian brother, his wife and children.

  344. Hugh.
    Grow up.
    You’re boorish behavior reflects poorly on the myriad of folks who are supportive of the Coy family and the value or validity of the teaching ministry he had.

  345. I have to think this story will only broaden in scope. Hopefully cooler heads prevail.

  346. Hugh,

    I’m not accountable to you for my sin.
    If I were in sin, my church would handle it and those who needed to know would know.
    I actually have people I’m accountable to and I speak with them almost daily.
    What you are doing is accusing someone you don’t know of sins that you know nothing of to deflect guilt from someone you idolize.
    You become an accuser of the brethren for the sake of your worship.
    I’m in good standing with my church and those I’m accountable to.
    Bob isn’t.

  347. Just answer the question! The criteria for judging is that you have to be willing to be judged by the same measure!

  348. Hugh,

    I’m not judging, I reported facts.
    I’m not answerable to you.

  349. You’re evading the question, who are your accountability partners, what is the name of your congregation? How many people attend your church, I want to make sure your crusading vendetta against CC is not born out of jealousy, for a work that God has raised up in these last days and the devil through people like you is attacking incessantly!

  350. For one thing if you had accountability partners and people that you’re answerable to like you claim, then you would not have this blog as a tool of Satan, accusing the brethren, you are just a discontented wannabe pastor who meets in a living room with 10 people, criticizing and begrudging the work of God because you’re not part of it!

  351. I have no crusading vendetta.
    I did not make Bob Coy have sex with women other than his wife.
    Bob chose to do that.
    Bob did this, not me.

  352. Join the accusers my friend, but just know that you will end up where they also will end up, and thus in the name of Jesus I rebuke you!!! and may what happened to BarJesus come upon you or worse as a witness from God that you are fighting against him!

  353. Hugh,

    I have had pets with more emotional and spiritual maturity than you.
    Unfortunately, my current cat is not among them.
    I digress.
    I’m very content with the ministry God has given me.
    Very.

  354. Hugh,
    Take your meds.

  355. Hugh,

    Read slowly.
    I’m not accusing, I’m reporting.
    I have proof.
    Within a few days you will too.
    Deal with it and may your curse not come back on you.

  356. Michael- The attacks you are receiving remind me of the attacks I got when I was at that church attempting to do good. It boggles the mind. You have no idea how enamored people are with this man. It’s as if he could never do any wrong. Ever.

  357. Let this be a sign to you, that if by this time next year calamity has not befallen you, to teach you to not malign God’s work and kingdom! and join the scoffers and Mockers, then you will know that I’m not speaking God’s word to you!

  358. Hugh.
    Leave your address so we can show up and stone you as a false prophet.

  359. Hugh,

    You’re not speaking God’s words, you’re talking out your sanctimonious backside and you’re in sin.
    Let this be a sign to you…if your backside rebels you must repent.

  360. Don’t worry I will come to you to bring my condolences! And pray with you for repentance!

  361. Anon,

    It has been intense to say the least.
    Thankfully, this isn’t my first rodeo…

  362. He had everyone mesmerized. They could not even think for themselves. It was like everyone was in a daze. Like some kind of fog was around them. When he made them laugh he had them. The power this one man had over everyone was beyond imaginable.

  363. Michael, I see you shook the tree and some nuts fell out.

  364. Mark this day April 8, 2014 and remember my words!

  365. Michael- Get em’ cowboy!

  366. Hugh,

    Have you wrote Bob ripping him for his sin and asking for proof of repentance?
    When you find out I spoke the truth are you going to apologize and repent in the community you accused me in?
    Have you ever had a hairball?
    Miserable…

  367. Hugh,
    You should listen to Michael when he says “I did not make Bob Coy have sex with women other than his wife. Bob chose to do that.”

    That’s a big deal = Bob chose. As I said yesterday, I am sure he looked with great anticipation for each encounter – rolling it around in his mind. I am sure he showered, put on clean underwear.

    Bob chose and Bob did it. Why do you deny it?

  368. Hugh, you might want to watch that calling-down-a-curse thing. Chuck Smith did it to me…he got diagnosed with cancer a month later…died a year later to the day. Probably just coincidence.

    I’m still here, though I have had a couple of colds since the Chuck curse.

  369. And may your little friends who warm themselves in the fires of scoffing and mockery take heed as well!

  370. Hugh,

    I’ve had so much calamity the last few years that a standard curse would feel like a vacation.
    Get over yourself.
    This whole thing is hard on you, but it doesn’t justify what you’re doing.

  371. Hugh,
    Crap, another curse? I think this must be the 3rd curse I am under this year already.

    How often do you pronounce curses in God’s name?

  372. RiBo,

    This is why I retired… ;-)

  373. Hugh said, “And may your little friends who warm themselves in the fires of scoffing and mockery take heed as well!”

    You hath better harken to the truth and backeth down thine misplaced anger at the messenger of the Lord…you son of a motherless goat. :-)

  374. MLD,

    The only point is the one they refuse to acknowledge.
    Bob did it.
    I completely agree with you that if it had been done to my loved ones…I would have kicked his sorry can up around his shoulder blades and repented later.
    Instead the idolaters slay the messenger.

  375. Michael said, “RiBo,

    This is why I retired… ;-)”

    LOL. I think it’s cheap entertainment. I love the nuts.

  376. Hugh,
    I’ll mark the calendar. Get back to us in a year. I am Michael’s friend and have known him for several years now. I don’t always agree with his point of view and we have had a few discussions to that end. I know that Michael uses some strict criteria before he publishes.

    I suspect you are an attendee at CCFL and you are angry, but don’t shoot the messenger…….. there was a guy who did so once, reluctantly. His name was Herod. God intends good to come out of this, but you cannot receive when you are in this disposition.

  377. I’ll prepare some recipes for crow.

  378. Thank you, pstrmike.
    With that we end another day of broadcasting.
    Cue the anthem..

  379. It’s crazy that people think Bob Coy had ONE affair, caught a conscience about it and decided to step down. He’s being lauded in many places as “admirable” for that.

    He was caught.

    One of the women confided in her friend, and her friend confessed to another high profile pastor in the area that had a friendship with Coy. THAT pastor contacted the board. This got the ball rolling and ultimately he resigned because the board would’ve gone public if he didn’t. The dicey part for this church is that there is a chance that some leadership people knew this was an ongoing problem for years.

  380. HMMMMM Heretic, this sound more like what I have heard. An ongoing issue. Is your information reliable? It’s not that I am questioning you, just that what you say rings truer to what I have heard in the past. I do not think “praise Bob poor guy” comments should be happening about his “noble repentance” when so many facts are unclear. We do not know if he has repented and maybe his unrepentance (if it is) is why he did not stand before the congregation. Just saying maybe…

  381. Anon,
    I can’t really say how I know. But I got it from someone on the inside. As I understand it, it was Bob Barnes who made the issue known to the board. Does that corroborate with what you’ve heard? Perhaps Michael or Alex could follow up with that and find out.

  382. Thank God that through Jesus we can find forgiveness no matter how much it hurts. I know it is difficult to understand that something good will come from this. I love God and Jesus so much that is why I feel and pray the best for Bob Coy and his family.

  383. My goodness brothers & sisters!!! I know God is not surprised by all this but we all need to get a grip! The enemy is now going to go to work and use this to do precisely what I see going on in this blog. The last thing we need to do is turn on each other over this because first, “There is nothing new under the sun” Second, we have a whole unbelieving world out there that will be looking for an explanation and answers and we are focused on discrediting each other and being right??? I’m just glad I don’t see you all questioning Bob’s salvation. The Bible is clear on how to handle all this so there really isn’t much to argue about. “The world will know you by your love for one another” Let’s starting loving a little more and get back to “our Father’s business”

    I will remind all in this blog that Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust you have committed adultery in your heart. By that account we are all guilty, except it would seem for MLD. Other than him, hopefully we have not acted on it but we are all the same in God’s eyes. Earthly consequences can be different for levels of sin but not in God’s eyes. Bob is still as precious as ever to our Father.

  384. This brother is as Gay as a Goose!
    Wonderful speaker, truly inspiring, but Gay all the same. Embrace him.

  385. 4given
    “By that account we are all guilty, except it would seem for MLD.”

    I learned a long time ago that the first look is not sin – it’s just temptation. It’s the 2nd & 3rd looks that are sin. So, the next time she walks by, don’t give a 2nd glance.

    I need to look up the verse, but I think it’s in Job where he talks about averting his eyes when the girls walk by.

  386. I wonder how many were out there defending Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker when they fell into sexual sin? I don’t remember much of it. Maybe because of the internet???

  387. I hope that Pastor Bob has not given his wife an STD. Not everyone should stay married for their reputation in a church. He should have been honest and asked for a divorce. I have no issue with him looking at porn. I do have issue with his lies, spending money on mistresses, and exposing his wife to STD’s. Scary how someone can look you in the eye, while doing a sermon filled with lies. I hope his family and wife learn to love and trust again.

  388. What is interesting to me is how little difference of opinion there is.

    We all agree:

    Bob messed up, and now may everyone involved refuse to be offended and proceed forward to continuing victory in Christ.

    This Christian life thing is so simple.

  389. I just came across this blog and it appears to be hosted by a CCFL attendee.
    Many comments by those who attend CCFL.
    I think it is worth reading. Also read the 2nd to last paragraph from “June”. She may be one to something.

    http://thelasthiker.wordpress.com/2014/04/06/pastor-bob-coy-the-church-adultery-consequences-and-grace/

  390. Now after commenting about 1st looks etc, I must confess that I have the hots for Stevie Nicks.

  391. Sheesh, somebody tell that Alex guy to re-open comments. You’re down to 700; it’s not like you’re bigtime anymore dude.

    To all who insist he honorably initiated his resignation:
    His last fb post (Thursday at 3:37) was “I can’t wait for beach baptisms next month!” Does that sound like a man who plans to end his pastorate that same evening? And I agree with Michael, resigned/fired can be one and the same in the business world. It will be interesting in this post-Coy(tal) era to learn the truth as it comes out.

    I can’t believe some of the comments I’ve read here and on CCAbuse. I haven’t seen anyone here gloating or rejoicing in his fall. Many of the Bobbleheads are imputing motive, spiritual condition, and knowledge of the secret sins of those who object to Bob’s infidelity. You judge that we are judging him, when the truth is it was his board who judged him and found him guilty as heck.

    The most disturbing part about many of these posts is the disparate amount of sympathy and even defense for the sinner relative to concern verbalized for his family and the church. And, I don’t see anyone coming to the defense of his co-sinners — why not all since you defend one of the sinners so vigorously? Do u not see that his co-sinners are being judged by many of you as throwing themselves at him and seductresses? Certainly they sinned as well, but I’m only seeing defense of 1/2 (or 1/3, or 1/4, or….) the guilty parties.

    RiBo, I hope this will eventually lead to full media exposure of your step-dad’s alleged molestation of your brother and abuse of you, as well as CC’s gross negligence in endorsing him to this day. They dealt with BC finally, but apparently (alleged) child abusers can be overlooked.

  392. Coy was banging 2 woman in the last year if not more – where was his brain???

    Where were his accountability partners??? Hooked on porn for years……………

    What a piece of s.. standing in the pulpit all the while knowing he was screwing 2 other woman if not more.

    One selfish scumbag SOB – he didn’t care about his wife or 2 kids or the 1000 employees he had…….

    I never liked him …….he was a smooth talker actor on stage and the bigger he became the bigger and cockier he became. His fame went to his head.

    He was a star everywhere he went………..a total fool and idiot in my book.

    He was the multi million dollar big shot who was an actor on stage ……

    Please tell me how could he take communion while screwing someone else the last year……..I’d like to know when he lost his values, his morals, his honesty………..his life is a lie…….

    I feel bad for the wife and kids …….BOB COY another Tiger Woods……hey kids your father is that womanizer right………..the media will have a field day…….

    He threw away everything, his family, his vows, his integrity, his reputation is forever damaged……..why???

    He said Satan was looking to destroy people …….he sure did not take his advice……..

    Coy black balled a number of people who served and now he is going to know what being black balled is all about……..karma comes back on him……..

  393. @ Hugh Flynn.
    I’m over 40, never married, do not view porn, and am still a virgin – and guess what? What Coy did is wrong, he committed adultery.

  394. Miss Daisy, i assume you’re a woman, if you’re not, then you have bigger problems, but if you’re a woman of course you haven’t had problems with porn, porn is primarily a mans vice. The problems you have had our probably gossip and busy bodying. But I would bet that you won’t find a man on here who had not looked at porn in one form or another and for sexual gratification thus all are guilty of fornication and adultery, “for whosoever looks upon a woman to lust after her, has committed adultery in his heart” -Jesus-

  395. Just ask Michael Newham, he’ll avoid the question as he points his stubby little fingers everywhere else but at himself, or Alex G, he at at least might be more honest and tell he you he’s viewed porn and probably worse. As they relish in someone else’s sin, they are blind to their own, self righteous Pharisees! With MLD leading the way with his self righteous smug attitude!

  396. Diamond Donny wrote: “He said Satan was looking to destroy people …….he sure did not take his advice”

    Right, he didn’t believe his own Bible studies. I have read SO MANY comments from Bob Coy followers that said, “Bob always said to us, ‘If you trust in me, I will let you down’.” Sheesh. What does that tell you? It sounds so super spiritual for Bob to say, but I don’t recall Paul saying that, or Peter, or John saying that, anywhere in Scripture. They didn’t have to. They weren’t doing anything in secret that needed constant warning.

    i heart sheck wrote: ” You judge that we are judging him, when the truth is it was his board who judged him and found him guilty as heck”

    That’s right, his own church leadership did the judging.

    i heart sheck wrote: “And, I don’t see anyone coming to the defense of his co-sinners”

    They too should hear, hey, we all sin, we all slip up. That would include the pornography stars.

  397. Hugh,
    “With MLD leading the way with his self righteous smug attitude!”

    Listen to my advise – forget what others are doing – if you are having issues with porn, just stop it. If you are having trouble keeping your hands off the ladies, just stop it.

    Don’t let the fact that Bob Coy does this or that – don’t let your lack of trust for Michael or Alex keep you from cleaning up your own life and actions.

  398. I guess most of us would not have let Peter preach at pentacost so soon after denying Christ! … I’m Glad God is in charge and not most Christians

  399. “I guess most of us would not have let Peter preach at pentacost so soon after denying Christ! … I’m Glad God is in charge and not most Christians”

    Good point. Hopefully Bob Coy will be teaching this Sunday. His board are all obviously morons. They were the ones with the power to fire him, and they did so. Hopefully you will send this message you posted, to them in email. Instead of just cowardly putting it on a message board to a bunch of strangers.

  400. The Peter comparison is not unreasonable. It provokes mockery and rage, but very rarely a constructive response.

    The difference is: Peter had a one-time crisis of faith that was immediately repented of and perhaps more permanently cured by the Resurrection.

    Failings that are evidence of deep and chronic character flaws by their nature require a different kind of remediation.

  401. @ 395 I posted a link-
    Please read it.
    I think it is a great post. I found it accidentally on Google. Don’t know the person but I think they attended CCFL.

    I think the blogger has the best synopsis of what the biblical model is to do in this case. And if you read “June” one of the comments I believe she really got it right.

    All over FB all the loyal supporters from his church are posting what I view as self-righteous comments. By being such a “forgiver” they make themselves out to be super spiritual, but as that blogger explains..to be spiritual is to know what the scriptures teach about how to handle this kind of situation.

    Those so easy to forgive-and basically take him back tomorrow if they could… many are already in ministry there and climbing the $ ladder there and now that he is gone they are able to cut a bigger slice of the pie for themselves. I have heard the asst Pastors don’t make a lot of $-maybe that will all change now.

    On the issue of DC his wife- if you read her page on the church website she explains that she left ministry to raise her kids and be home for Bob. The 8-9 years I was there she was never around and hardly did any ministry.

  402. I also posted a Youtube of BC at Liberty University at last yrs graduation ceremony. From the camera shots of the kids in the audience-they weren’t buying it. In fact I have never seen a look of disgust to that degree on kids faces at any graduation ceremony. It’s sad cause his son is supposed to attend there this fall.

  403. In searching for that video- I see it was in end November 2013- only 4 1/2 months ago- not graduation..even worse.. It was about Joshua getting into the promised land-that’s why I had thought it was graduation.

    Imagine what all those kids at Liberty are thinking now…

  404. Antonio-

    I like the blog I posted because they are not calling it “moral failings” but adultery-which is what the Bible calls it.
    Why hasn’t it been called adultery??
    Does the Bible mention the term “moral failing”?

    Also, your link article suggests that we ought not make a big deal out of it cause he stepped down.
    Did he really?
    Or was it because he was caught?

    Why not face the congregation of you have nothing to hide?
    Like what he made his own brother do?

    It took our family years to recover from his actions, and I guess this all just brings it back. Will try and just observe rather than contribute.

  405. When confronted with his sin he stepped down, he could have fought it or refused to step down as many have, but he didn’t. Secondly the Bible will say “adultery” or “fornication” but “fornication” can include many types of different types of sexual sin, it’s not pertinent to dwell on the sin itself and bring out every lurid detail of that sin for your viewing pleasure and for you to dwell in. He submitted to his board and their decision, and they are the ones that are privy to the details not you,

  406. Coy was a conman…………this was going on for a long time and he was basically giving Jesus the finger??

    That is why Mark Davis & Clay heacocks left…………they saw this stuff and said enough is enough!!

    Face reality how could he be in the word and not be under conviction ??……..he was a FRAUD……….

    Explain to me how you could take communion at 3 services and then go bang someone else?? You don’t have any morals…….your life is a lie…………

    Just like Obama, Tiger Woods a womanizer …………a piece od scum ………..he made his brother apologize in front of the congregation…….where was he a coward with no backbone!!

    Scumbag needs a good beating for destroying the lives of so many……………….

    How can you trust anyone at calvary anymore after you were lied to by Coy for years…….he is disgusting……..

    To say he was loyal to diane is a joke……..his kids will really be affected for ever………..

    Did he ever once think about his 1000 employees, did he ever once think about his kids, did he ever once think about what he was doing to Jesus or his wife, his family…………

    Was he so selfish that his ego got so big he was ABOVE THE LAW??? All this stuff about Love Out Loud was a big con…………..

    How many people did Coy or Calvary go after that left the church………….Coy never did he didn';t care. He was already rich…………I

    I’ve seen people get black balled by him……..now the shoe is on the other foot ………

    I’d like to know how long this s.. went on and the people who knew said nothing out of fear of losing their job……

    Personally I saw through thi scumbag years ago ………..he used his popularity to con people and he was smart enough to do it…………He never took the word seriously to his heart.

    God said enough was enough and bang asshole your done……………you scammed enough of my people……….

  407. Diamond donny, there’s a lot of truth in all that. My step-dad CC pastor…same dynamic in play. Con man. He could preach a Jesus message with a straight face on Sunday…having done so much evil the Saturday before.

  408. It’s as consistent as the law of gravity…the CC senior pastor marching up the sinner in front of the church to confess their sin publicly…then when it’s their turn…they want maximum grace and privacy and it’s a different standard.

    My step-dad CC pastor did that same thing as well. Only at least Coy got caught for his stuff, my step-dad CC pastor still gets away with it.

  409. Donny…please clean it up.
    I hear you, but keep it PG.

  410. “That is why Mark Davis & Clay heacocks left…………they saw this stuff and said enough is enough!”

    And when some were gone like that in recent years, it was probably said, “they were troublemakers”, or, “they didn’t respect the work of God”, and so on and so on.

    I have spent years hearing people around me saying, “Bob Coy is so funny!”, “Bob Coy knows how to do church!” ad nauseum. Especially two in particular in my personal circles. Neither of them has shown their face since all this broke.

  411. GALATIANS 6:)

  412. Where is bob? Did he leave the country? Is his family with him? Is there a lawsuit coming? Seems like this must be worse than the usual cc pastor adultery because from my observation, calvary chapel covers for their guys and discredits the victims. This ” moral failing” must be big and bad or it’s disclosure is an attempt to try to avoid something worse. Is the IRS coming to take them to jail?

  413. there has been NO confirmation of what the “moral failure” is. NONE. Though having an affair is the most likely of the possibilities, there is NO factual confirmation of this and anybody reporting it as “fact” at this point is wrong.

  414. Mike,

    I have confirmation.
    I am not wrong.

  415. My money’s on Michael…and everything I’m hearing from my sources confirms it. Plus, listen to Greg Laurie talk about the situation on Pastor’s Perspective…clearly the “moral failure” wasn’t that Coy was driving solo in the carpool lane.

  416. RiBo,

    Double down. ;-)

  417. Can we guess?
    Bob got caught with the constable’s 17 yr old daughter and he had paid for the abortion?? Am I close?
    It seems like it must be bad because for a simple dalliance it usually goes unnoticed.

  418. MLD,

    We don’t speculate.
    We wait until we know and can prove what we know, then we report.
    I have nothing that suggests what you just said is true.

  419. It was more of a suggestion, like getting in an office. ;-)

  420. I’m sure that everyone understands my need to be as careful and precise as possible.
    Some in the CCA and CCFTL have tried to make me out to be the one caught in gross sin and any opportunity to discredit me will be taken.

  421. is gross sin 144x?

  422. Michael can you confirm the involvement of Bob Barnes as someone who was instrumental in all this coming to light?

  423. Michael said, “RiBo,

    Double down.”

    I’m all in :-)

  424. Michael, they always try to make you the bad guy…but we know you are clean. :)

  425. Can you say “Rodney King”?

  426. RiBo, I’m with Michael on this one too….maybe they are calling in ‘moral failure’ so he can be back in the saddle in a few months….though with his name on the deed and the book sales, he may not even care….set for life….

  427. he could always go back to Vegas as a comedy act.

  428. Antonio- “it’s not pertinent to dwell on the sin itself and bring out every lurid detail of that sin for your viewing pleasure and for you to dwell in”

    Antonio- Please find for me the scripture references for “Moral Failure”. I get no pleasure in pointing this out.

    Someone on the other blog I referenced wrote about the last few messages that BC preached. It would be good to listen to her insight.

    From what I understand, many employed knew something was “going down” for a long time. But some thought it was financial issues.

    Mark Davis and Clay Hecocks wives were very good friends and I am sure together decided enough was enough from what they knew. Pure speculation on my part. The strange thing is that Mark was with Bob for almost the entire 30 years as his #1 right hand man and Mark was a brilliant businessman. Many people- even as of yesterday didn’t even know he was gone.

    A man of that importance-you don’t think would have been brought before the congregation and “prayed off” as they have done in the past with others who have left?

  429. There was a time many years ago that many “good” families were leaving.
    After “Until the whole world hears” fund raising, I personally wondered where the 60 million raised went. At first we were given a drawing of a new sanctuary. Some knew that the building that was built for the H.S. needed payment.
    Well, what happened to the $ since there was never a new sanctuary?
    No one seems to care about that. it never happened.
    Afterwards BC was the poster boy for raising money and he spoke for Crown Financial on how to get the church to give. we were gone by then.

    People were asked to make pledges.
    The “inner circle” or big givers got to have dinner with DC and BC. The next “level” of givers got to have a dinner with them with more people, the next “level” got a buffet dinner> The “next” got a lunch buffet… and then some got nothing.

    there’s so much more to say…

    This doesn’t directly have to do with the issue on hand but just some insight ..
    I also understand there was supposed to be an auction for a car (donated by a dealership),,and the congregation didn’t like that idea. Who ever got that car?
    I have a feeling cause I saw someone else with the exact car..

  430. Quite an eclectic mix of emails coming in.

    Lots of support…lots of information…as well as a lot of CC nuts. I haven’t been rebuked and cursed so much since Chuck passed away.

  431. “People were asked to make pledges.
    The “inner circle” or big givers got to have dinner with DC and BC. The next “level” of givers got to have a dinner with them with more people, the next “level” got a buffet dinner> The “next” got a lunch buffet… and then some got nothing.”

    Anonymous, if what you wrote is true, this is the most repulsive thing I’ve read yet on this thread. This is not the gospel of Jesus Christ, and the congregation are idol worshipers. Disgusting!

  432. Jean, this went on at a large church I attended for awhile and when I questioned it I was told it was a common practice, having what they called a”Kings Circle”. One of the many reasons I left.

  433. Jean- Yes it went on because I knew a couple that had dinner with BC and wife with only a few other couples. they were generous givers. They told me about some others they knew who were part of the “less prestigious” meals.

  434. There’s also much to say about when they began having auctions at the church. A day with DC having make-up applied by a makeup artist. I may have forgotten the exact amount but it was somewhere between 3,500.00 and 5,000.00. When that sold well, on the spur of the moment they added another day. It went for far less than the first. My thought when I was there was “Doesn’t the first person feel ripped off”? Also, by that time there were a few millionaires who attended. Won’t mention names. BC was seated at their table, even though they were new compared to others who attended for over 20 years at that point.

    Just some of the things that were a turn off.
    I personally believe that when more people with big bucks started attending, things really changed. That’s when the celebrity status began. I guess it can happen to anyone to be star struck.

    One of the gals from Saturday Night live attended- I forget her name and they really used that to their advantage-she was mentioned…

  435. The children at the school were told that DC and the family is in California. That’s where she is from. If they were told that , it is no secret where they are.

  436. The more I learn about the “business” of Christianity, the book deals, compensation, speaking fees, book reviews, book forwards, blogs about books (no offense Michael), radio and television shows, etc., the more I can empathize with people who have given up organized Christianity for house churches or other alternative church structures.

    Money really is the root of all kinds of evil. Money, Power and Sex: Mamon, Mars and Aphrodite. We’re still worshiping the same old gods. The one who hung on a cross continues to be foolishness to the Greeks and a scandal to the Jews. So depressing.

  437. Diamond Donny “How many people did Coy or Calvary go after that left the church………….Coy never did he didn’;t care. He was already rich…………I

    I’ve seen people get black balled by him……..now the shoe is on the other foot ………

    I’d like to know how long this s.. went on and the people who knew said nothing out of fear of losing their job……

    I have to agree. He didn’t go after anyone who left. He didn’t repent of his wrongdoings when he hurt children or their parents.
    I can’t tell you how many employees would be afraid to speak up about ANYTHING going on in both the church and the school because they were afraid to lose their job or position!
    They would rather see a family trashed than do what is right by the Lord.
    Their fellowship there- and their clichés-their high class restaurant-a place to impress non-believers so they can get “saved” there– and their position of importance was more important than standing up for the truth.

    That was my first church. That was where I thought I was saved. I never missed a weekday or weekend service. We took our kids out of the pool at 4 PM to make a 6 PM service. All the sacrifices….to be harmed by so many in leadership that did their own thing without anyone knowing. No one really being in charge overseeing what was going on.
    I wonder if now these people are thinking of us.

  438. If this is all true there’s a lot of lessons to learn here and maybe it’s time people started apologizing to Rick Warren who has demonized through the years. It sure seemed to confuse many when he was with Greg and Chuck at the Harvest Crusade and was present at Chuck’s memorial.

    And if these things are true then I would run from CCFL if those practices are not dealt with.

    I was one who looked down at my nose at all things not CC for many years and time has shown me that CC is not the church of Philadelphia.

    At the same time I will stand with every CC pastor who is seeking to do church the right way.

    I’m so tired of division in the church.

  439. Comments are back on at the CC Abuse blog. There may be a comment from a woman soon that may be of interest.

  440. Looks like Lucifer is starting to write in now. Aka Danny Damond.

  441. donny,
    I asked politely.
    You declined.
    It’s my blog.
    You have left the building.

  442. Wow, Michael does have some standards, so that’s what it takes, not gossip and slander and outright fabrications, but some foul language to wrap up the crap that’s being dished out here!

  443. Hugh,

    Your medication seems to wear off right before bed…speak to your physician.

  444. Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord, I will repay!!!

  445. “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.”
    (Romans 8:1 ESV)

  446. The problem is that you’re not with Christ Jesus, who looked at Peter with compassion, but you’re with a different being, an angelic being who accuses the brethren day and night!

  447. Hugh,

    So now I’m not saved?
    Because I dared tell the truth about your idol?
    You have some serious issues.
    So do I…I just ate half a box of Chicken in a Biskit and have terrible indigestion.

  448. Michael

    You should not trouble yourself with this man. Let the matter sort itself out and let him rail away like a coyote in the night wind.

  449. Michael has his little posse of the usual suspects, always looking for a lynching, like circling vultures at the scent of a wounded sojourner, “depart from me for I never knew you, you workers of iniquity!” Are the words those of your ilk will ever hear unless you repent, “you shall know them by their fruits,” and your fruit stinks!

  450. Alan,

    You’re right.
    Excellent, thoughtful article today and we appreciate it much.
    I’m off to bed.

  451. Good Eveving Michael!

    It appears I missed the Mensa meeting on this thread ;o)

    Better luck tomorrow !

  452. what article are you referring to?

  453. Can you say “Jimmy Swaggart”? I knew you could. David Jeremiah was right. The Calvary Chapel movement is nothing but a put-on to confuse people’s minds and create stories that have NOTHING to do with Biblical truth. Because of this, I am no longer listening to Reach FM.

  454. “I am no longer listening to Reach FM”

    I stopped listening to KWVE years ago.

  455. I never been to CC but I read on many different blogs about them and I would like to share the Scripture from Psalm 2:11-12 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

  456. repentance REPENT’ANCE, n.
    1. Sorrow for anything done or said; the pain or grief which a person experiences in consequence of the injury or inconvenience produced by his own conduct.
    2. In theology, the pain, regret or affliction which a person feels on account of his past conduct, because it exposes him to punishment. This sorrow proceeding merely from the fear of punishment, is called legal repentance, as being excited by the terrors of legal penalties, and it may exist without an amendment of life.
    3. Real penitence; sorrow or deep contrition for sin, as an offense and dishonor to God, a violation of his holy law, and the basest ingratitude towards a Being of infinite benevolence. This is called evangelical repentance, and is accompanied and followed by amendment of life. Repentance is a change of mind, or a conversion from sin to God.
    Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. 2Cor. 7. Matt. 3.
    1828 edition of Webster’s

  457. A dear friend’s daughter became a Coy-ite while pursuing a degree in the Ft. Lauderdale area, and my friend jumped on the bandwagon after visiting CC during a trip down there. (I use the term ‘Coy-ite’ because both mother and daughter were mesmerized by Coy and his comedic style in speaking.) At the friend’s suggestion, I “tried” to listen to one of his sermons in the hope that we could do a Bible study based on his exposition of The Word. Unfortunately, his teaching was very shallow, and a tendency toward story-telling and stand-up comedy in favor of sound, Biblical doctrine was both offensive and disappointing to me. (My friend and I ‘agreed to disagree’ about Coy’s handling of Scripture..or, the lack thereof, deciding it would be best to ‘study separately’ rather than keeping our yearly tradition of doing a combined study.) Many months have gone by since then, and a few days ago I received a text from my friend in which she shared about Coy’s resignation/admitting to moral failure. Mother and daughter are reeling from shock..asking themselves why they did not recognize the absence of authentic Christian character in the fallen mega-pastor. As a supportive friend, I have questions, too.. Whatever happened to preaching The Bible, and not one’s own brand of The Gospel? Why does the emphasis these days seem to be on altering The Message in a manner which appeals to the culture? And, aren’t mega-churches equipped with a mega-staff..and, therefore, don’t mega-pastors have access to an ample accountability network? Lastly, if the assumption of some is correct (that Coy will re-surface soon..to be reinstated), would any mature believer out there choose to sit under the teaching of a re-cycled pastor in favor of a shepherd who will lead God’s flock with integrity of heart?

  458. “Unfortunately, his teaching was very shallow, and a tendency toward story-telling and stand-up comedy in favor of sound, Biblical doctrine was both offensive and disappointing to me… …asking themselves why they did not recognize the absence of authentic Christian character in the fallen mega-pastor”

    Good insights.

    I felt that the constant comedy instead of Bible teaching, was the sign that there was always something wrong there. If Bob Coy can only draw a crowd by comedy, then that tells you the nature of the whole place.

    I know of huge churches that do teach the Bible, and aren’t funny at all, and they still have a large attendance.

  459. “Whatever happened to preaching The Bible, and not one’s own brand of The Gospel? Why does the emphasis these days seem to be on altering The Message in a manner which appeals to the culture?”

    #464, Unfortunately, I see this all over the place in American evangelicalism. It’s as though the biblical gospel is not interesting or compelling enough; it’s as though the biblical gospel does not comport with increasingly American ideas of libertarianism, guns, stand your ground, etc.

    I hear bible preaching and teaching being translated into military and sports metaphors all the time. Bible preaching and teaching is being dumbed down, so that you have to read everything literally, imposing 21 century ideas of history and science on the text, or your not a faithful Christian.

  460. Michael just want you to know the Mark accusing you and positing other nonsense is not me – the long time lurker/poster on this site named Mark who goes back many years with you.

  461. Mark,

    I know…I can tell when you’re chewing me out. :-)
    It’s all good.

  462. Did Pastor Fidel Gomez know anything? He’s probably dirtier than Pastor Bob. And his sermons have been the same – blame the Christian, God is blameless.. stop whining sermons.. for what , 20 years? More people should resign. I wish that were not so, but … there’s much more information waiting to burst.

  463. I like Bob, I served there for over a decade and he has proclaimed from the pulpit he struggles in the area of pride and women. Hey 99.9% of guys do or they are lying!
    He did his best to always have accountability around him but I think its the pride more than the desire that got him. AND YES I KNOW THEY ARE CONNECTED AND PRIDE COMES BEFORE………………
    Ive seen knock out hot girls in tight dresses looking more like they are going clubbing than to God’s house stand in line to get a picture with him, he was your Pastor girls and MARRIED he’s not a freakin rock star. I do wish he had faced the congregation, it would be helpful in the cleansing and restoration process, besides I’ve seen him hold people accountable publicly and so should he but that’s water under the bridge.
    My heart goes out to his wife and kid’s. If his marriage survives and I hope it does Bob will have to spend the rest of his days on his knees begging their forgiveness and thanking God for giving especially her too him.
    I hope the best for you Mr Coy God can still use you; after all Peter outwardly deigned Christ (3) times and was lifted up to be the one appointed to “feed the sheep” and , excuse the analogy, you will need to be willing to be crucified upside down.
    That’s just the sad reality of sin
    I forgive you

  464. Moe #470, where was the church leadership teaching the women to dress modestly for church? Church isn’t a club or a pick up joint. Maybe that’s a byproduct of not letting women hold leadership positions.

  465. #469 Fidel dumped his own church to go back to CCFL because his church was failing. He informed his congregation 2 weeks before he left- leaving them for over 1 1/2 yrs thinking he was building a new church for them. He left his youth Pastor to become Pastor. he told everyone that if they left because he left “You are lost”! I still have the cassette tape.

  466. Bob Coy had a long run. It appears that the fate of mega church superstars happens eventually when they start believing their own press.If it had been me I would probably never have lasted as long. I thought it strange not to hear his signature cartoon voices coming over the clock radio in the morning until my daughter told me today what had happened. There is no rejoicing in any of this. He was a prime target of the devil with such a large following. Hopefully the believers will recover quickly and put their faith in Jesus to find a new place or to remain, but they will need to examine their faith first. This will harden them somewhat but it will pass and they will be better for it. Mega-churches always have such a high profile for scandal. That is one more reason mega-anything can be so mega-bad for all believers who now have to explain this to the mockers and critics.

  467. #473, great post. (1) Faith in Jesus: Check; (2) Mega-anything = mega-bad: Check.

    It’s good if they get hardened, although some will probably drift away because their real worship was in Coy. Coy will have to pay for that at the judgment. Christians must never, ever put their faith in the created, only in the creator (Romans 1). Why is that so hard?

  468. #472, anonymous.. how are you related to all of this. Your story sounds credible, about Fidel Gomez.

  469. Bob, Anon’s #472 is absolutely true. I was there. The youth pastor was set up to be the fall guy. Church was in incredible debt via a terrible lease. The kid did great for ten years until he had his own “moral failing” 5 years ago. Although, he DID go before the congregation and HIS troubled marriage didn’t lead to a sexual encounter. He’s completely out of Calvary Chapel and is seemingly content as a regular guy although he seems to have realigned his doctrine to something more unorthodox and writes about it often. It shows just how broken the Calvary System is. That makes at least 4 Calvary Chapel pastors that I know of that have “fallen” in the same way. Calvary Doral, Boynton Beach, Coral Springs and now Fort Lauderdale. ALL in South Florida.

  470. There are 476 comments so far as I write this. By my count, only 7 including myself have listed your names. Why do you express yourself behind screen names ? ( When I signed in, it asked for my first and last name – seemed simple enough.!) I’d think the body of Christ would be the most transparent of all bloggers! I guess I’m the rookie of the bunch since this blogging stuff is my first round ever participating in such, but I have to say I’m amazed and taken aback by the acidic, sarcastic, jabbing, slandering; let’s say it – absolute hateful jabs at one another ( just do a speed read at 476 thru 1!). This has grown way beyond the BC travesty, it’s become a volley of hate. If the church is to be known by our “love for each other”, how are we (this blog exchange) any different from those who don’t believe in the most fundamental thing we hold together to be true (Him crucified for US- That we are all sinners saved by his shed blood, not by our own works?) I’m appalled. If I was a new believer ( and I”m not, it’s been 40 years) I would run fast, away from this apparent hate tank if I thought this was the “body” because that’s what this has become- a hate tank. If I’ve just offended anyone, well tough, but read through this thread and I think you’ll see it, and if you don’t, may HE show you sooner than later. This will be my last ever participation in one of these ‘exchanges.’ Church, you’ve accomplished nothing through this. He must be sighing in disappointment. And the evil one must be ecstatic to see this…!

  471. Krent,

    I understand your reaction as a visitor. I would point out a few things. The blog host has spent the week publishing positive, restorative articles after the news broke. There has not been joy expressed here for the scandal by the vast majority of people – including the host.

    This blog has been around for many years, and many of the screen names you read are actually people well known to one another in the regular community here. Not by nickname, but by real name, facebook and email – often even knowing each other in person when geography permits. In other words, on any given day what looks like a bunch of anonymous posts are actually not. If one sticks around for awhile, those friendships and identities will develop. Also keep in mind that many here have something in common and that is bad experiences with churches and pastors, while some of us remain to try and minister and fellowship, as well as listen and empathize, with those hurts.

    There have been a large number of new posters (many anonymous) who arrived in the first couple days of the news. Frankly, they have been the source of the majority of the venom – but I think most of us realize these are people in a sort of shock at the news, who are hurting and whose trust has been violated and are lashing out. Some of course did return volleys in kind, and that is unfortunate.

    Much of that lashing out has been accusatory against the facts of the article, calling them lies and slander, with plenty of personal insults to the author. Shooting the messenger is rather common in the initial hours of disbelief. But the report is true, the blog host reported accurately and now that the rest of the media is reporting the same thing, these voices have quieted down and are left to the long task of relating to a new devastating reality

    The ecstasy of the evil one, and the sighing of the Lord begin with the actual sins of the pastor and the unfathomable wreckage now in the wake. If anything, this week, this place, has attempted to bring some good, some lessons, some encouragement, and some healing to those caught in that wreckage, and I include myself in that group. I preached four services Sunday feeling like I had been punched in the gut multiple times – and that feeling had nothing to do with this blog.

  472. Wait, what? This is a Christian blog? I don’t think so! Would the owner of this blog if he was a Christian be relishing and rejoicing in the fall of a Christian pastor, if he was a Christian? I don’t think so, would the owner of a Christian blog be joining in the attacks and ridicule directed towards a fallen brother? I don’t think so. This is a blog for scoffers, haters and mockers!

  473. Hugh. Seriously? Brother, you need a hug.

  474. What about Calvary Chapel West Palm Beach, did that one survive the CC Florida curse?

  475. Hugh are you trolling or is this some sort of gag and spoof? No one is that big an idiot as you are letting on.

  476. Krent,
    ” Why do you express yourself behind screen names?”
    I can only speak for myself, I want that I say to be more important that who I am.

    Hugh,
    Yeah, I agree completely with Neo, You really, really need a hug.

  477. Why are you Christians so indignant and condemning, isn’t it natural to want to be with many different women, aren’t we programmed that way as men. By nature we’re not monogamous, observation, life and experience will readily show you this. The only ones that are monogamous are the ones who have no choice because they’re either too old, too fat or too ugly or too poor. Given the opportunity of beautiful young women throwing themselves at at men, 99.9 percent of men would fall. Every man gets tired of the same ole same ole and wants a little variety, some men just hide it better than others, or they find the outlet through porn or in their imagination, every man has a file cabinet with all kinds of images and scenes and past experiences that he pulls out when the need arises, so all those men criticizing another in this area are hypocrites. So here’s to you hypocrites as you go to bed tonight and pull out the pleasure files!

    Great article to consider:
    http://touch.sun-sentinel.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-79853971/

  478. “The only ones that are monogamous are the ones who have no choice because they’re either too old, too fat or too ugly or too poor”

    Hi Lorenzo, There is another reason some of us choose monogamy, and that is love.
    I’ve been married for over 3 decades to the same woman. We made a covenant, a lifelong commitment, so we both choose to honor each other and grow old together, day by day, raise a family and, some day, have our children bury us.

    Thanks for hearing me out.

  479. One more thing, Lorenzo, that’s a pretty good article. Thanks for enriching us.

  480. So you’re saying you’ve never viewed porn in all the time you’ve been married? Or thought of someone else while you’re with you’re being intimate with your wife? Answer truthfully now!

  481. Lorenzo,
    That’s, quite honestly, inappropriate, and none of your business.

    Michael,
    Here’s a great picture that you will appreciate, courtesy of Reddit…
    http://ppcdn.500px.org/46961604/93440f80cd492bca3ff2ae5626d488dfc26c4bb4/2048.jpg

  482. I wan tho know ow long has he been having affairs Michael, if you have concret evidence that he committed adultery and was addicted to pornography can u provide any other details? How come pastor fidel gomez has not appeared since Bob Coy resigned? didn’t they come to fort lauderdale to start calvary together?

  483. Oh now it’s inappropriate!!! I think that’s a YES! According to Jesus definition of adultery, you are just as much an adulterer as Bob Coy is!

  484. ( |o )====:::Convenient answer, ======= or whoever you are.

    > Steve Wright, ( obviously a real person, one of the brave ones): as you correctly state, I am in fact a visitor, and apparently one arriving with nievte’ (relative to a ‘newcomer)’….as you so poignantly state, ” caught in the wreckage”…
    Yours is the only post that reflects some of what I would expect/hope for amongst believers , (and for that I thank you – i.e. no venom) …..I know too well the disappointment of which you speak. Not only of church/pastors in my past, but unfortunately, I know too well the pain Diane Coy is feeling having been there myself.

    Having been previously mocked by another blogger for my lobbing out the reminder to all of us of to remember ” 7 times 70″, I am the first to admit to not ever being close to fulfilling that. So my position is one of total sympathy for Diane and the kids….and I find myself frankly in the conflicted position due to personal experience of being totally pissed at Bob for his selfish actions, and at the same time praying for his relationship to be someday restored with first our Lord, and Diane, and his tragically innocent children.

    Shouldn’t these posts be cathartic? Shouldn’t they as you say, be restorative? Your response is the first I’ve read that seems to hold some hope that I may in fact continue reading this thread. Thank you.

  485. Krent,

    The regulars here are great people. Lots of folk come to a blog to vent. Most of us did that in the earliest days of the blog. Nowadays we are mostly committed to serious dialogue and ongoing relationships.

    Anonymity has been part of my schtick too for most of the time here. For me involves simply the interest in private conversation with people outside my circle. Don’t over react to what you see here.

  486. “( |o )====:::Convenient answer”

    No, my answer is well beyond convenient, it is crafted after years of thought, consideration and observation. It is my empowerment.

    Lorenzo,
    Are you a follower of Jesus?

  487. Krent, My name is Allan Adams. I fight another battle and if you click on my erunner name it will take you to the blog I’ve run for six years because of the help of Michael who runs this blog. I personally put together four events where many who visit here got together in person and had great food and time together. Others have met as well so we are a bit of a family although not admired by all.

    I came to this blog long ago aghast that things negative were being said about CC. I hadn’t heard of any in my 30 years attending CC starting with CCCM in 1976 when I came to Christ. I have learned some truths I did not like but have stuck around here for a long time.

    I’ve seen many come and go and have seen a lot of stuff I didn’t like here. Something about sitting behind a computer screen can change and embolden us to post things we might not say to a person’s face.

    You’re going to find many branches of the faith represented here which adds to the richness of what takes place here.

    The topic of Bob Coy has brought many here who are shell shocked by what they read as opinions are strong.

    I go by erunner as I don’t know if people would know who I am if I went by Allan so even though my name is known I stick with the moniker.

    I’m sorry you have experienced the pain you described and hope the best for you.

  488. You didn’t have the integrity and honesty to answer my question, and now you want me to answer yours! Answer mine first! HAVE YOU EVER VIEWED PORNOGRAPHY IN YOUR OVER 30 YEARS OF MARRIAGE? OR THOUGHT OF SOMEONE ELSE WHILE YOU WERE BEING INTIMATE WITH YOUR WIFE???

  489. Ohhh, Lorenzo, bad form to shout in all caps

  490. Well I thought perhaps you had grown conveniently deaf at the question and needed me to shout it out so you could hear it clearly and answer it! I’m still waiting!

  491. Lorenzo #483. So how many women have you used and discarded to satisfy your lust? Do you ever think about the emotional damage you cause these women or the families you break up? What about the husbands and children of the women you use just for kicks, so you don’t get bored? Or your own wife and children if you have any. Do you care about anyone but yourself?

    There are many Christian men who would not trade their happy monogamous marriages for the most beautiful women in the world. Because God blesses their marriages, they experience genuine love which is far more satisfying and pleasurable than a lifetime of dishonest and destructive one night stands and empty relationships. It’s a wonderful way to live, Lorenzo. I hope you reconsider your life and realize there is a more excellent way to live which God wants to give you.

  492. Name one of these men you refer to, the men I’m asking on this thread can’t and won’t answer the question, if they’ve ever viewed pornography or thought of someone else while they’re with their wives, that should tell you something, and the women I’ve been with enjoyed our intimacy as much as I did, we enriched each other and learned from each other and brought each other boundless pleasure, so I don’t know what you’re talking about, discarded women and wrecked lives? Sometimes there’s love and we become lovers for a time and sometimes it’s just sex for fun and enjoyment, so face the facts men by nature are not monogamous!

  493. What do you do, you just put up little sayings to avoid answering the question, it doesn’t change the question, it’s still waiting to be answered!

  494. True spirituality is to be able to live with unanswered questions, dear Lorenzo

  495. Not so, true Christianity is to be able to answer the question truthfully that you and your ilk are continually asking when it comes to other peoples sins, but your cowardice and hypocrisy shows, as you deviate the question with empty hallmark pseudo wisdom, well here’s one for you “what’s good for the goose is good for the gander! So now answer the question!

  496. Dear Lorenzo, you know so little of genuine Christianity, and you know nothing of me or others here. Genuine Christianity doesn’t waste its time sin sniffing or telling others what to do or how to live. it is entirely an inner journey and it is solely between each individual and Jesus.

    Me and those of my “ilk” are progressive christians. I am not an evangelical or a fundamentalist. My “walk with God” is mine alone and that is why, respectfully, it’s none of your business.

  497. I’m glad it’s yours and yours alone, this way perhaps you might just keep your hypocrisy to yourself, just be ready that when you judge a man, you are ready to be judged as well! And if not, then the best thing is to keep your lying mouth shut!

  498. Lorenzo,
    My lying mouth?
    My hypocrisy?
    I have judged no man here, in fact I am horribly sad that Mr. Coy is going through the crap he’s created for himself, his family and his community, not judging, but truly sad.

    I have family and friends who have suffered the destruction of cheating and divorce, and the kids are the ones who are hurt the most.

    Is it ok, in your world view, that I feel a profound sadness at the pain and destruction his betrayal has caused him and those in his universe?

  499. Those who follow this world view of monogamy for a lifetime as you yourself know from your viewing of pornography and thinking of other women while you’re being intimate with your wife, know that it’s bound to fail, because as men we are not wired that way, as much as a woman would want that to be the case, so what it really comes down to is how well each man hides it! So his wife and kids just need to realize that this is the reality of life and BC is no worse or better than the average man, perhaps even a better man a stronger man, who is going through this facing the ravenous wolves that most of you have become!

  500. Lorenzo,
    You have an obsessive form of projection, as evidenced by your post here, “from your viewing of pornography and thinking of other women while you’re being intimate with your wife…”

    Here’s another one of your blind spots, Lorenzo, “the ravenous wolves that most of you have become”.

    I have been lurking the past few days and your rabid attacks on Michael are evidence of your profound dissatisfaction with yourself and your need to project your own dissonance on him, me or others who you refuse to dialog with.

    You are an angry man, Lorenzo, and very unattractive to anyone who you are unloading upon.

  501. I’ll make you a deal, Lorenzo, we’ll part company tonight, and I will think of my children who have made me proud, and walk upstairs with my wife, the wife of my youth and love of my life, and we will fall asleep in each others’ arms, whispering prayers of thankfulness for each other.

    May you find love and fulfillment with a significant other who will love and accept your world view.

  502. Your silence at the question presented to you is not a projection but a resounding answer to your hypocrisy, and the points I present are nowhere addressed, except to say I’m an angry man, didn’t Jesus speak of righteous indignation, but what did he say of cowards and hypocrites?

  503. Lorenzo, what do you know of Jesus?

  504. Lorenzo,
    Are you a follower of Jesus?

  505. Do you worship Jesus as God incarnate, The Lord, The Creator, The Giver of Life?

  506. Is Jesus, to you, the Lord God of you?

  507. The4Gospels present Him as Risen, do you trust in, rely on, and cling to this Risen Jesus as your only source of life?

  508. What I know of Jesus was a reference to this blog in a news report, so I came to read it and all I read are hypocritical wolves tearing at the wounded, self righteous people looking down their noses at others, so if this is Christianity I would rather be with those who are honest and forthright, and they’re not on this blog!

  509. Lorenzo, fair enough.

    I sincerely hope you will stop wasting your time on this blog, seeing each of for who we really are, a bunch of very failure ridden representatives of Jesus, just faking our way through every day and butchering this faith called Christianity. We’re total screw-ups, we readily admit it, but you’re a damn fool to try to get a read on Jesus Christ from any of us.

    Instead go to the surest source about Jesus, the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Trust me here, I will assure you, none of us here will ever hope to represent Jesus as well as those 4 books.

    Sorry we couldn’t do better by you.

  510. Just one final thing, after you’ve read those 4 books, just stop, don’t go any further.
    Force yourself to consider whether He is Who He claims to be.

    Beyond that, I’ve got absolutely nothing.

  511. Steve Wright, your comment number 478 was pure gold. Thank you.

  512. I can see now why so many Calvary Chapels changed their names to: Harvest, Maranatha Chapel, Applegate, those were the wise ones who were anticipating a scandal of this magnitude to hit, i think it’s no longer going to be the Calvary Chapel Association or affiliation that up and coming pastors will crave and seek, but more of a disassociation, as more CC’s are now going to change their names, let’s see here’s some ideas, Refuge, Revive, the Not Bob Coy Chapel! It looks like the CC movement is quickly passing. It was the Catholics then the reformed then the anabaptists to our modern movements of which CC was one, we shall have to wait and see what will be the next movement God raises, hey don’t be so sad, CC had a good run, what was that like 50 years? Which is typical of today’s modern quick moving world!

  513. ( |o )====:::

    you did well last night, you were being played, and you still shown like a bright light in the dark!

  514. Lorenzo, I’ve read all your posts and you are so full of hate and …. I’m sorry for you and your pain.

  515. #470 IMO the way the women looked going to that church was a big problem that no one addressed. The church was more concerned with non-believers.. “come as you are to meet Jesus” than protecting their own sheep.
    Women would come in promiscuous outfits -they would say “How do you know it is not a prostitute looking for Jesus”? so they never addressed the dress of the women.
    They also had a singer who wore tight jeans that may not have been by todays standards showy, but her mannerisms drew attention and I would look at the men in the audience and see all their eyes were on her- and I am sure she knew it. I would also see their wives looking at them and nudging them. Talk about distractions in worship! Why are we sitting there looking at people “performing” on stage anyway?

    It is difficult to go to church and see this level of temptation going on.
    But that was a church that brought non-believers in by the busloads.
    So we have to have a discussion on the subject:
    What exactly is “church”?
    Is it a place to raise up believers to “Go out and make disciples”?
    Or is it a place to intermingle the heathen with the saved?

    When the Pastor goes to a local college and tacks posters all over on his upcoming Bible study “Did Jesus really have s+x”? to attract a crowd, something is wrong. But apparently, any way you get the crowd is OK.

  516. #489 Fidel came to Ft Lauderdale with BC but left to start his own church. It was failing, no one knew it because they were told and shown drawings of a new church in the works. Also there were pledge meetings. There was a group of loyal congregants there, even when they moved out of the shopping center and into a school to “save” money when all the while there were huge back rents needing to be paid. So all of a sudden it was “announced” to the congregation that he would be leaving in 2 weeks. When he went back to CCFL by then many family members from another state arrived and had jobs waiting for them at CCFL.

    What I remember is that BC was supposed to speak at Fidel’s church and never did.
    It was scheduled and was cancelled.
    I think that was supposed to ease the transition for the “new” Pastor.
    I actually felt bad for that new Pastor who was the Youth Pastor because He was not ready.

  517. Interesting and worthy of noting: it was called CC Ft Lauderdale and was never in Ft Lauderdale but Pompano Beach…He was “called” to Ft. Lauderdale but never ever had a church there.

  518. Anonymous #531

    I’m not one to split hairs but The first meeting place for CC was in a funeral home behind Albertsons in FT Lauderdale, now it is true they moved for a bunch of years to Pompano but only with temporary zoning variances off Gateway but were deigned permission to a become permanent church location, therefore they never settled there. BTW I was present at that city commission meeting. The support for the church was standing room only and out the door but the city still said no and actually took offence to the overwhelming turnout.
    Afterwards Bob address the congregation in the parking lot and proclaimed God must not want them to stay in Pompano and shortly there after the property they bought, which I think was the old Hewlett Packard building or something like that, was back in Ft Lauderdale.

    Here’s a couple of zoning maps for pompano which shows the boundaries going behind the church on Old Mcnab Road. the church sits on the “new” Mcnab which is an extension of Cypress Creek Road people confuse the two all the time.

    http://pompanobeachfl.gov/pages/department_directory/development_services/planning_and_zoning_division/pdfs/maps/city_map.pdf

    http://www.city-data.com/zipmaps/Pompano-Beach-Florida.html

    So although Bob did at one point attempt to put rots in Pompano God had other plans, much like Noah getting swallowed by the great fish after being thrown off a ship and subsequently deposited in the land where God intended him to go.

    Maybe God never intended for Bob to have the mega church, Bob has said many times publically he would rather has a small congregation of true believers than thousands of people playing church.

    Bob’s a decent guy who did a ton of good world wide lets look at that as well.

    Im not giving him a pass, not at all, he’s absolutely called to a higher standard.

    Peace my friend

  519. What’s the big deal Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa is not in Costa Mesa.

  520. Dusty,
    You’re too kind.
    Lorenzo is in great need to know about Jesus from the gospels. If he keeps looking at us, Jesus’ followers, he will be disappointed because we’re all unfinished art projects. Unfinished art is never pretty.

  521. G,
    Thank you for your intercession last night…I forgot to turn it off this thread before I went to bed.
    You represented well. ;-)

  522. Moe-Thanks for clearing that up. At one time I clearly remember the address was Pompano Beach but maybe that was at the gateway location. I stand corrected.
    It is no doubt that BC did a lot of good. I especially remember the issue with the Festival of Lights display that was built, and since not being allowed to have it there, putting it in front of the church during the Christmas season.
    I am not too sure he wanted a small group of believers because the building kept getting larger to accommodate all that were being brought in. That may have been accomplished through small home groups, but his magnetism and charisma kept a need for a larger building. A few years back after leaving the church I found some old cassette tapes and his messages were less funny and more serious.
    I suspect that the laughs made him realize it worked..got more people in and maybe it became like a treadmill that you can never get off of.
    I truly pray for him and his family. I know the solution is to get right with many people that were hurt. I also pray he has the right people alongside him-people that truly care about him-like we did.

  523. Looks like the night shift worked some OT last night…………..

  524. PS He always said that he didn’t want to turn anyone away.
    He got the idea from Andy Stanley to do satellite churches.
    I think he (Stanley) was the first to do this.
    So that “Until the Whole World” fund raiser was never used for a new sanctuary as planned.
    I wonder what happened to the 61 million raised.
    No one even asked. I don’t think it was ever told.

    So they began to buy out “failing” churches in the area and use large screens.
    At that time the services were also being displayed live.
    So much happened in so short a time-it seemed that after moving from the warehouse to the new building, things exploded. The internet–being able to “attend” service from your computer also became possible. It reminds me of an overnight star. Too much too soon.
    Was God behind it? If so how can one person handle it all?
    It was also difficult to be someone who had discernment there. There were only a select few who could say anything about anything. Any constructive criticism was seen as “divisive”.

  525. Anonymous
    I know what you’re speaking about there was defiantly is a “we know better” attitude through the church as is with any structured environment but I on at least (3) occasions took Bob to task on issue’s I questioned and each time he heard and reasoned with me, one time conceded, one time there was a healing between two churches and one time we agreed I was taking a bit too much license and should stay on the set point to which I conceded.
    And if Bob is reading this he now knows who I am.
    Bob, in my opinion, respects people that challenge him because he’s a competitive type of guy but bring your “A” game.
    You will always have the “tow the line” soldier types and they have their place in the body as well but if you want to grow in any aspect of life spiritual or other wise seek out those you respect and let them help you to the next rung a person of good character will be happy to share their life experience to build you up, those that criticize have nothing to offer in the first place.
    CC will be ok, they will experience a separation of the wheat from the chaff which is healthy the sad part is there will be a number that like Peter will go back fishing but even they will not be lost if their heart truly is the Lord’s. this too I am speaking from personal experience.
    Maybe it’s time you give CC another chance assuming your still in the area and maybe I should take my own advise LOL

    “If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men”

  526. Thanks Michael.
    I wish only good things for Lorenzo.

  527. And only because I am entering a different stage of grief which is anger – Pastor Chinelly and Pastor Fidel Gomez were both unfaithful to their wives.
    http://www.calvaryftl.org/about/pastors–staff/pastors/#
    This is public and common knowledge and has been discussed and admitted from the pulpit…… I have been present when Fidel and Connie (Johns wife) admitted it to an audience.

  528. Moe- I thought of the verse “Does a dog return to it’s vomit”.

    If you live in the area, you know it is not easy finding a church when you are looking for “meat”.

    I have been listening and watching other respected Pastor’s on Youtube.

    I have a feeling there are many surrounding churches that are getting ready for the mass Exodus out of CCFL.

  529. And I know firsthand that some of the Pastors of these churches knew by mid-week what was going down.

  530. Daughter–
    And as you look at these “Pastors”, one used to run the cafeteria (Did he have any biblical education to become a “Pastor”)?, one is BC’s brother in law, and one is his niece’s husband.
    What make’s a Pastor anyway?
    Who get’s the title?
    And we now have “media Pastor”??

  531. I doubt hardly anyone will leave CCFL, unless they leave to follow Coy. People are like sheep and will do what they are told. It is just people like we PhoenixPreacher-ites who don’t follow the rules that leave.

  532. I travel almost an hour to CCFTL because I was well fed there. Bob Coy may not have been a good pastor but he was a great Bible teacher (amalekites, perizzites, canaanites – OH MY!) – he also had an administrative staff that helped him with a thorough and expository message, precept by precept. The Asst Pastors are pretty weak – with the exception of Bill Schott BUT he is a teacher and not evangelical. I have visited Potential Church and Church by the Glades and they fall under the seeker – resurrgence apostasy movement, watered down gospel, entertainment, FALSE “church”. Christ the Rock suffered its own scandal a while back and I heard that Pastor set up camp at a near location. The victim wife of another scandal set up camp at a near by church… SO if anyone can recommend a smaller church, please let me know.

  533. Daughter
    good for you you are healthfully progressing though a normal phase of emotions but I don’t understand the point that there was a confession with other pastors. In a congregation this size of course there are others who have been / are guilty of the same transgressions and there will be others in the future. This is not uncommon among men. Adultery is a common thread throughout the 66 books. Are we to perform a witch hunt now?
    We are a body in need of healing, this should be a time for all those afflicted similarly to be provided with a vehicle to come forward and seek healing. The church should set a mechanism for those that don’t know how to deal with their sin to discretely discuss it and decide how to move forward.
    Adultery creates a ripple effect that grows outward and touches so many lives not just the two involved and it takes two willing participants to maintain.
    Pastor John has always publicly spoken about his sins of adultery, I’m not aware of Fidel’s but I am aware of others, regardless this isn’t about the leaders more so than the entire body.

    “If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men”

  534. If I remember correctly-Fidel’s was before he was saved.

  535. Moe,

    Well the subject is that is Bob Coy is not fit to be a Pastor because of his sexual indiscretions. Than how can the others be? Not a witch hunt at all. This whole mess has really brought some things into question for me, a new believer…… Adultery is certainly throughout the 66 books BUT not within those called into ministry as far as I can find. King David was not called to lead a church or ministry. Fidel has mentioned cheating on Theresa several, several times during his sermons. Its pretty common knowledge. He is always hanging out – ask him:)

  536. PS Connie and Ashleigh (Pastors Gregs wife) have been afflicted with cancer – I will ask you all to hold them in prayer this month – please.

  537. Anonymous 542
    Proverbs 26:11 “As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his foolishness.” not Does because and yes a dog does.
    Returning to a CC isn’t returning to folly unless you know its folly. CC has produced a lot of strong Christian leaders but if the wound one might carry had left a scar that is so spiritually disfiguring that it would prevent personal growth then I would agree don’t return there but please seek somewhere else. Look for your proverbial iron to sharpen your iron.
    I absolutely saw folly in my tenure with CC but I walked around that which would block my path, you will experience this where ever you go but please go somewhere to seek understanding.
    You sound like someone that isn’t going to listen and repeat blindly without A deeper understanding, you’re exactly what the body needs

    “If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men”

  538. “I did not come to bring peace, but a sword” –Jesus

  539. Moe,

    As a new believer, I was being fed very well at CCFTL with Pastor Bobs teaching. My first teaching exposure at CCFtl was about Hosea and Gomer. The Asst Pastors are not as “annointed” or equiped imho- and frankly I cant deal with Chets over the top, Broadwayesque mannerisms – read: distraction. So if you can recommend a Biblically sound local church – that would be great. The pain of church shopping is excruciating, especially since last time I was at Potential I was in tears over the horror I experienced there. Thanks. God bless.

  540. Moe- I misquoted the verse- I am usually more astute than that. I guess the comment should have read “In lieu of that verse, should a dog return to it’s vomit”?.
    Thank you for the correction.
    So where do you attend church?

  541. Daughter- There area few Pastor’s there (won’t mention names) that have taken on BC’s mannerisms and style. It works so it is a kind of method of delivery now.

  542. Daughter- Interesting because I understood that BC did not write his own sermons.

  543. Anon – I always thought it was a collaborative effort – mostly with Hickling (the most knowledgeable of the bunch, based out of TN I think ) etc. But I cannot confirm on the matter.

  544. Daughter

    I understand your hearts pain and I presume you are a single young woman so the thought of a man or woman in the ministry falling is very disheartening to say the least.
    I personally experienced an unfaithful fiancé prior to the wedding and she was very involved in the church so I can sympathize as well as empathize on this issue.
    Please understand that for a follower of Christ any transgression is against God as well as man.
    Abraham the father of the Jewish nation and subsequently the Christian as well was promised a son and became frustrated over time and slept with his wife’s servant, regardless of tradition, which lead to the birth of Ishmael an illegitimate child and penalty was that Ishmael would become the father of the Muslim nation. this certainly is an example of adultery.
    Exodus 20:14 “You shall not commit adultery.”
    Other verses you should delve into are … Leviticus 20:10 , Proverbs 6:32 , Matthew 19:9,
    Lets Look at Galatians 5:19-21
    Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    The point is that sin is a type of adultery against God, if we are the bride of Christ, lying, lust cheating or anything that puts something in front of Christ is an adultery because it violates that covenant.

    King David was called to build the temple of the lord much like a Pastor is called to build a church / congregation. David was disqualified after his adultery with Bathsheba, Uriah’s wife, from that building. Keep in mind what David was as a youth, A Shepherd, the leader of a flock.

    This my sister is a 4 part series for who ever your present Pastor is and I think this is the perfect time for all Pastors to pray about this teaching. My advice, not that I’m anybody, is to keep your eyes on God an always seek MATURE counsel.

    “If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men”

  545. Moe,

    I am crystal clear on everything you have told me and havent told me anything I didnt already know. My question was can you recommend a Biblically sound LOCAL church? Thank you.

  546. Daughter

    I regards to where to go to church
    Yours is a very special and personal relationship with God and you are blessed with so many choices in this area. You have brothers and sisters in the world that are not able to mention their faith without fear of loosing their freedom or life.
    Please understand I don’t mean that condescendingly, it just is fact.

    Little sister
    I’ve had my struggles at CC and other churches, I’ve walked out of sermons and understand the feeling of not relating to Pastors.
    You’ve mentioned Ashley and Connie so I get the impression you have respect for them, talk with them I know them both, not well but they are both solid to say the least.
    I would say this before you do anything , cry out to the Lord on your own and I mean CRY OUT!! LET IT RIP GIRL!!

    Psalm 34:17
    The righteous cry out, and the Lord hears them; he delivers them from all their troubles.18 The Lord is close to the broken hearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.

    And continue to be fed where you are but continue to ask God to show you where you need to be. Go to Him as a child and offer your heart as a servant He will guide your steps. It may be at CC it may not, it may be at an organization such as woman in distress, a food bank or missionary etc.. God has a lot of job openings, it may be that your time for a family is coming. Again I presume your a single woman.

    Who knows? He does………

    BTW My Grandmother the mother of 12 and Grandmother of 33+ and a bunch of great grand kids was the most Christian woman I ever knew and she was a devout Catholic so was Mother Teresa for that matter.

    Get hung up on the Lord not labels.

    “If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men”

  547. Daughter,
    I understand the struggle of looking for Bible based local church. We have gone through this struggle around here. Contrary to what is being said, we have not found many churches that are both Biblical and socially minded to help the hurting. My best advice is to try a few, some you will leave saying I won’t go back Some you will attend for a few weeks and get a feel for it. If you are blessed, you may find one to lay your weary self at for a while. We are at that place. It is not an easy process, but you will find one. Blessings on your search.

  548. Daughter,
    We live in Coral Springs and have attended some of the more conservative churches in the area — Reformed Baptist, Anabaptist and a John Macarthur affiliated church. In every church there were false teachings, traditions of men, worldly compromise, hypocrisy in the leadership and pastors who justified everything. After doing research, we found that each of these churches are controlled at the top by people who have connections to the ecumenical/interfaith movement and are stealthily drawing the churches into the one world religion of the Antichrist. Before leaving each church, we shared our research with the pastors who made excuses, denied the facts and questioned our right to find fault with their church doctrine and leadership. Frankly, we are afraid to go anywhere now. I wish I could be more positive, but we are living in the last days when there will be a great falling away from the faith, which the Lord has prepared us to expect before He returns.

  549. Barbara. If your understanding of the Bible has completely isolated you from the greater Body of Christ, it is safe to say you are misunderstanding it.

  550. Barbara

    Which church did you go to in that was a John Macarthur affiliated church? Plantation?

  551. Anonymous #564. Grace Bible Church Plantation. We spoke to the pastor about John Macarthur’s false teachings and extensive connections to the New World Order, but he would not listen and could not believe that Macarthur was anything but godly man. The following exposes present facts about John Macarthur that he needed to know and we tried to explain, but to no avail:

    http://watch-unto-prayer.org/macarthur-1-mark-of-beast.html
    http://watch-unto-prayer.org/macarthur-2-slave-book.html
    http://www.thewatchmanwakes.com/

  552. Neo

    I would say it is unfair to make a comment that since Barbara has not found a church she is misunderstanding the Bible.
    Unless you live in this area you have no idea the influence BC has had on it. He has bought out 7 churches in a small area and there is another church following in his footsteps also doing the same.
    I have struggled to find a place to call home as well.

  553. Coral Ridge is an excellent church. One of the best you could find in a “mega church”. And in the greater Ft. Lauderdale area, I’ve no doubt there are many good churches.

  554. “After doing research, we found that each of these churches are controlled at the top by people who have connections to the ecumenical/interfaith movement and are stealthily drawing the churches into the one world religion of the Antichrist.”

    One problem with doing research, particularly through the internet search engines, is that you will find whatever you are looking for. Read broadly from people who have some form of biblical training. I have looked this for years, and I think there are several groups that are maintaining biblical integrity and calling. Some of these churches/groups that are so antithetical to anything that could possibly be considered ecumenical may in fact be unable to discern wheat from chaff. Let the buyer beware, try all things, prove all things and hold fast to that which is good.

  555. Krent W.
    I apologize for my flippant remark to your initial comment at 338. I reacted in context of numerous other people who commented shortly before you who apparently excused Coy’s behavior or attacked people here for discussing the effects and ramifications of those choices. I should have welcomed you to the site and clarified your thoughts before firing one over your bow.

  556. “After doing research, we found that each of these churches are controlled at the top by people who have connections to the ecumenical/interfaith movement and are stealthily drawing the churches into the one world religion of the Antichrist.”

    Many of them do indeed have this going on, yes.

  557. Neo,

    There was too much drama with Kennedys passing at Coral Ridge. Ive listened to Tullian on Moody and he tries to imitate Paul Washer too much for my taste. He may have a scandal brewing with one of his kids, so my little heart cant take this right now. Thanks for the suggestion, I am not going to go the Mega route right now since I am very need of the Body as a family at this juncture of my life. Thanks for your words.

  558. Neo
    Coral Ridge does not the same doctrinal position as CCFL.
    So if one is in agreement with the end time position of CCFL, they would not want to sit under Tullian’s teachings.

  559. Coral Ridge “Presbyterian” that is.

  560. Anonymous – you mean CCFtl being Pre? Is Coral Ridge Post?

  561. Lol. As if that’s a bad thing, Anon.

  562. You just have to be careful when looking for a church some of these churches teach that Calvinism garbage, like God had chosen some to go to hell and there’s no such thing as free will for the nonbeliever, and the limited atonement nonsense that Jesus only died for the elect and not for the whole world, others teach replacement theology that God is through with the nation of Israel and we the church have replaced them and there are no more promises for Israel, but instead they apply to the church. Also some of these churches are teaching that there is no rapture but all the prophecies in Revelation have already been fulfilled, and that Nero was the antichrist, so there’s a lot of sifting through garbage that you have to go through to find a good church!

  563. Coral Ridge

    Flynn, Exactly…

  564. Trolling for a controversial reaction Flynn?

  565. Here is a synopsis of the core beliefs that Coral Ridge list on their website. Which one of these statements do you not agree with Flynn? Anonymous?

    Coral Ridge is a congregation of the Presbyterian Church of America (PCA). The PCA is a family of churches that are doctrinally Reformed and governmentally Presbyterian. Below is a summary of our core beliefs which are developed in more detail in the Westminster Confession of Faith, the Westminster Larger Catechism, and the Westminster Shorter Catechism.

    All Scripture is self-attesting and being Truth, requires our unreserved submission in all areas of life. The infallible Word of God, the sixty-six books of the Old and New Testaments, is a complete and unified witness to God’s redemptive acts, culminating in the incarnation of the Living Word, the Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible, uniquely and fully inspired by the Holy Spirit, is the supreme and final authority on all matters on which it speaks.

    We believe in one God, the sovereign Creator and Sustainer of all things, infinitely perfect and eternally existing in three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

    Jesus Christ, the living Word, became flesh through His miraculous conception by the Holy Spirit and His virgin birth. He who is true God became true man united in one Person forever. He died on the cross as sacrifice for our sins according to the Scriptures. On the third day He arose bodily from the dead, ascended into heaven, where, at the right hand of God the Father, He now is our High Priest and Mediator.

    The Holy Spirit has come to glorify Christ and to apply the saving work of Christ to our hearts. He convicts us of sin and draws us to the Savior. Indwelling our hearts, He gives new life to us, empowers and imparts gifts to us for service. He instructs and guides us into all truth, and seals us for the day of redemption.

    Being estranged from God and condemned by our sinfulness, our salvation is wholly dependent upon the work of God’s free grace. God credits His righteousness to those who put their faith in Christ alone for their salvation, thereby justifying them in His sight. Only such as are born of the Holy Spirit and receive Jesus Christ become children of God and heirs of eternal life.

    The true church is composed of all persons who through saving faith in Jesus Christ and the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit are united together in the body of Christ. The church finds her visible, yet imperfect, expression in local congregations where the Word of God is preached in its purity and the sacraments are administered in their integrity; where scriptural discipline is practiced, and where loving fellowship is maintained. For her perfecting, she awaits the return of her Lord.

    Jesus Christ will come again to the earth – personally, visibly, and bodily – to judge the living and the dead, and to consummate history and the eternal plan of God. “Even so, come, Lord Jesus.” (Rev. 22:20)

    The Lord Jesus Christ commands all believers to proclaim the gospel throughout the world and to make disciples of all nations. Obedience to the Great Commission requires total commitment to “Him who loved us and gave Himself for us.” He calls us to a life of self-denying love and service. “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Eph. 2:10)

  566. Not at all, just speaking the truth of what some of these churches teach, many believers don’t realize this until much later then it’s a lot harder to leave, better to know at the outset!

  567. I’m sure that there are many churches in the FtL area that, while not “mega” in size, would be a good fit for many of you in the work of the ministry. Find a church that could use your contribution of time and talent and let the mega house worry about itself.

  568. fllynn,
    when you describe their teachings as garbage and nonsense, it isn’t the ‘truth’ it is your ungracious interpretation.

  569. Mr. Newnham:

    You have defended your right to report the story, which I cannot dispute, and have vigorously expressed that those who disagree are “killing the messenger” or “throwing you under the bus”…but my point was not to indeed do such, but to state that, due to the lives that are affected by this story (his family), and yes, by his sin, which I do not excuse in any way, that it may not have been in good humanity or taste to have reported the story before the church did on April 6. In other words, let the church handle the church’s business.

    Yes, you have every right in our Constitution to report this..but what is legal and allowed may not always be the right thing to do.. in the sake of mankind and compassion for Coy’s wife and children and given the emotions they are going through at this time, perhaps some delay in reporting it until the church publicly announced it mightve been best and in order, the way the local mainsream media did.

    Coy has to accept the consequences for his sin, as do we all, and certainly has put himself in this position and opened himself up to the public discussion about what should be his and his family’s personal business….but thats not the point! The Bible says, let he who is without sin cast the first stone! None of us are in a position to throw stones, judge, or cast aspersions upon or condemn him…only God can…

  570. just because others in the Body of Christ hold to different conclusions regarding aspects of theology doesn’t require them to be wrong. They have arrived at those conclusions with serious thought, study, prayer, and reliance on guidance from the Spirit of God and His scripture. They have been taught by well-intentioned, thoroughly prepared, astute ministers who take their roles seriously. To bag on sisters and brothers who are as convinced of their conclusions as you are of yours is ungracious, short-sighted, erodes your credibility, and fosters division in the church.

  571. Ixtlan, Yes I completely understand this. Which is precisely why I asked for suggestions several, several times. Would I rather blindly go church shopping through the yellow pages OR maybe narrow the search to 4-5 churchs that were RECOMMENDED? Try and keep up:)

  572. Scott
    I have had personal conversations with Tullian.
    Read his book about the Kingdom.
    Not to stir strife, but some of us don’t agree and won’t be comfortable there.
    The subject was brought up suggesting that church and Flynn was correct in most of his post which addressed those issue.

  573. fscaduto, WELL PUT and that was precisely my point early on. Many asked what where his motives for this if not selfish and serve serving and THAT is NOT of GOD!!!!!!

  574. Sorry but when my Bible says that he died not for my sins alone but for the sins of the whole world, then anything else is garbage!

    When my Bible says that “WHOSOEVER WILL BELIEVE IN HIM will not perish but have everlasting life” then anything else is garbage!

    When my Bible says that “blindness has happened to Israel in part until the fullness of the Gentiles come in” then anything else is garbage

    When my Bible says “that the seven year tribulation will be a time unlike any other time in the history of man and that unless Jesus had come back when he does all life would be cut short”, then anything else is garbage!

    And when teachings are propounded that God is through with Israel and that the Jews have been punished by God because of their rejection of Christ and that God has removed himself completely from Israel. These teachings which give rise to anti-Semitism and go against God’s word which says, “I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you,” then yes that is garbage!

  575. Amen Flynn!

  576. I’m not doubting your passion for your convictions. I’m doubting your ability to graciously recognize that many other Christians have come to other conclusions using the same Bible as your own. There are lots of passages, verses, and phrases that require a spectrum of thought as opposed to a specific non-negotiable position. It hardly makes their convictions “garbage.”

  577. If I had to choose between a repentant Bob Coy or even a Moses model pastor teaching correct doctrine or someone who is morally correct under a board that makes the decisions for the church, and yet teaching false doctrine like that Jesus only died for the Christians and not for the whole world, that there is no free will involved in salvation, when the Bible continually tells us that there is, and when part of their foundation is replacement theology, that is, that the church has replaced Israel and that the tribulation has already happened, then give me the Moses model pastor, sometimes and in many cases we have to choose the lesser of the two evils, as Jesus said,

    “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them….”
    He didn’t say stop hearing them. But with false doctrine he said

    “But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray….”

  578. If I had to choose between a repentant Bob Coy or even a Moses model pastor teaching correct doctrine or someone who is morally correct under a board that makes the decisions for the church, and yet teaching false doctrine like that Jesus only died for the Christians and not for the whole world, that there is no free will involved in salvation, when the Bible continually tells us that there is, and when part of their foundation is replacement theology, that is, that the church has replaced Israel and that the tribulation has already happened, then give me the Moses model pastor, sometimes and in many cases we have to choose the lesser of the two evils, as Jesus said,
    “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them….”
    He didn’t say stop hearing them. But with false doctrine he said
    “But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray….”

  579. Flynn, you’re like a bull in a china shop.

    Your soteriological arrogance is nauseating. But peace to you anyways…

  580. to clarify, are you saying that Coral Ridge Presbyterian is Jezebel leading Jesus’ bond-servants astray?

  581. Flynn,

    As opposed to Scotts comment – I appreciate your candidness:)

  582. You mean like Jesus was a bull in a china shop and came in and turned over the money changers and made a whip and judged that which did not belong in the house of God, just like these false doctrines that contradict God’s word, do not belong in the church of God, dead doctrines that reveal themselves in the festering fruit, I’ve been to these reformed churches Calvanist churches, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Reformed Episcopalian, etc, and for the most part are stiff with doctrinal rigor mortis, so it’s readily apparent why Satan has injected these doctrines early on into the church, as you see the ineffectual fruit if produces.

  583. Flynn, I havent reseached this in its entirety but there seems to be 89 verses on “election”…. thoughts?

    http://www.openbible.info/topics/election

  584. If Coral Ridge is teaching doctrines that contradict God’s word, then Yes, they are leading God’s people astray!

    I don’t care if it’s Billy Graham, Chuck Smith or John Calvin himself who came back from the dead if they should appear and teach contrary to the word of God, they are to be rejected. And my Bible says “for God so loved THE WHOLE WORLD…” Sorry no tulip there!

  585. Hugh,
    How would you rate the fruit of Coy’s doctrine?

  586. I didn’t attend the church Coy pastored or hear Coy’s doctrinal messages, but I can tell you this, if his doctrine was sound and according to the Scriptures then it will produce sound fruit! For it’s His word that does not come back void, but it shall accomplish the purpose for which He sends it!”

  587. Based on what you know about this situation, would you confirm Coy’s doctrine did not produce sound (healthy/whole) fruit?

  588. I attended Calvary and sometimes was there 5 times a week for classes etc. I would say Coys doctrine was a 9. I have visited many other churches, I am not a Coy groupie, and consider myself spirit filled.

  589. The fruit of the message or from the teaching is different than the personal fruit if a person does not heed that message, so the fruit I am talking about, are the hearers, those that heard the message and were saved by the message, and were edified and encouraged by the message, I’m talking about those who grew by the doctrine they were taught and not only did they hear the word but also put that word into practice, and if they did then yes, we will see the fruit of that doctrine as they grow to also produce fruit! So if the message was right the hearing and application of that message will produce the right fruit!

    From the interviews I have heard and the people that have commented who were saved at that church who grew in that church and we’re serving in that church, yes it does seem like the message was right and the fruit is good and it’s fruit that will remain!

  590. If the doctrine was a 9 and you are Spirit filled then find a like minded church that teaches sound doctrine and stay away from reformed theology and Calvinism which contradicts the word of God, your going there will be like putting new wine into old wine skins!

  591. ::facepalm::

  592. Am I reading that Coy bought out churches and did not use a large chunk of the 103 million raised and praised by Chuck to build out their new campus?

    Am I hearing that part of fundraising project plan involved Bob and his wife putting a price on the biblical practice ( and requirement for elders) of hospitality, charging people to have dinner or lunch with them.

    Is it true that women paid money to deny the commandment inI Timothy about women placing a priority on the cultivation of inward character over outward adornment by having high price spa and hair days?

    If this is untrue or these are unlawfully exaggerated claims the. Let me stand corrected.

    If not then the whole board and staff needs to repent ( in ways appropriate to their position and level of participation and approval) .

    The good works and true worship rendered to Jesus by the people in this fellowship need to honored, promoted and protected within a leadership environment that regards Jesus and holy and true or they need to be redirected and redeployed elsewhere .

  593. Did I also read that Coy did not write his sermons and that this is common knowledge?

    If so, how did He seek The Lord through study and prayer? If so, what so called ministry does Bob demonstrate fidelity in that he can be restored to?

  594. Flynn,
    Can you show me where your Bible says “that the seven year tribulation will be a time unlike any other time in the history of man and that unless Jesus had come back when he does all life would be cut short”, ???

  595. MLD? I guess you are a disciple of Luther, you’re not anti Semitic like he was are you? I myself am a disciple of Jesus, so read what he said not what Luther said:

    In Matthew 24;

    15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 FOR THEN THERE WILL BE GREAT DISTRESS, UNEQUALED FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD UNTIL NOW, AND NEVER TO BE EQUALED AGAIN.

    22 “ IF THOSE DAYS HAD NOT BEEN CUT SHORT, NO ONE WOULD SURVIVE, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

  596. Victorious

    Let me answer some of your comments posed as questions:
    I doubt anyone has any idea where the 103 million was used.
    It was supposed to be raised for a new sanctuary that was to be at the North-East part of the property near the canal and would take up part of the main front parking lot.
    It never happened. Instead, other churches were “bought out”. I have no idea if they were paid for , or what the arrangement was. I also know 2 large donors retracted their pledges.

    The make-up session with DC was at the auction so it was bid on. Then there was another put up for bid winning at a lower price.

    The dinners were not at a charge per se. They were given based on what you pledged/gave. The ones with the largest pledge or most “generous” givers, got a more intimate dinner with DC and BC. The less-er donors got a buffet lunch.

    BC did not write his sermons as I understand it. I know of a young 20 something recent Bible college grad (female) who wrote sermons for him. (or perhaps the proper way to put it is that she did the research and the study. Probably ended about 4-5 yrs ago, so whoever was doing it afterwards- I have no knowledge of.

  597. Victorious

    I have been stating 61 million. I believe it was originally 103 until those 2 donors backed out. That shows you how much they initially pledged.

    Someone else may have more info on this subject.

  598. Anonymous. Thanks.

  599. @605
    I sure hope that those are incorrect facts. If they are true, there is a greater problem than Bob Coy’s moral failure.

    BTW, Flynn, that might prove 3 1/2 years of tribulation, not 7.

  600. 1 Peter 1:2

    who have been chosen ACCORDING TO THE FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD THE FATHER, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

    God knew from the beginning who would choose him or not choose him and based on what man’s choice would be God chose man so predestination is mentioned but it’s according to his foreknowledge that he chose us as it clearly states in 1Peter 1:2.

    What kind of God would we serve if he chose some at random to go to hell and some to go to heaven.

    The Calvinist teaching does not coincide with God’s nature and God’s love as revealed in Scripture!

  601. Flynn,
    one cannot separate doctrine from practice; the two do not exist separately. Our practice should be shaped by our doctrine. If our practice (fruit) is sinful, does that not cast question upon our doctrine? Orthodoxy (doctrine) is inseparable from Orthopraxy (behavior); they are components of the same. Coy’s position on Israel is moot if his relationship with his wife is on the rocks.

    By the way, MLD is Jewish.

  602. Daniel 9:27“And he will make a firm covenant with the many FOR ONE WEEK!, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.” -

  603. yuck! that is all I can say …. yuck! :(

  604. Filbertz
    Your argument is not with me but with Jesus who said “they sit in Moses seat, Therefore pay attention to what they tell you and do it. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they teach.”

    And also with Paul who said in Phil 1:15-18

    15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

  605. I know a lot of Jews who have self hatred! Some of the biggest anti-Semites have been Jewish!

  606. Flynn,
    You are a false teacher – you said that your Bible said ““that the SEVEN YEAR tribulation will be…”

    You added the words “SEVEN YEAR tribulation” to that quote. I mark you as a false teacher – whose teaching is, what were the words you used of others??? oh yes – garbage.

    Take you false teaching elsewhere.

  607. I love this – while trying to mock me Flynn said “I myself am a disciple of Jesus, so read what he said not what Luther said:”

    And then he quotes passages that don’t contain the words he said Jesus said.

    Flynn is a false teacher -

  608. MLD, I didn’t realize you were mathematically challenged, and unable to compare scripture with scripture

    Daniel 9

    He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. ”

    Matthew 24:15
    when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—

    Be a reader MLD And understand

    Then compare with Rev 11

    11 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a] 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

    7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

    Maybe I can help you with the math 42 months = 3.5 years
    1260 days = 3.5 years

  609. Anonymous #564. Grace Bible Church Plantation. We spoke to the pastor about John Macarthur’s false teachings and extensive connections to the New World Order, but he would not listen and could not believe that Macarthur was anything but godly man. The following exposes present facts about John Macarthur that he needed to know and we tried to explain, but to no avail:

    http://watch-unto-prayer.org/macarthur-1-mark-of-beast.html
    http://watch-unto-prayer.org/macarthur-2-slave-book.html
    http://www.thewatchmanwakes.com/

  610. Is an argument really being expressed that the reporting of the news should have waited until after Sunday for Bob’s wife and his children? Surely nobody thinks they just found out at the Sunday afternoon meeting.

    OK, so now that is past, the claim is the church should have been told first. I can see this except for one very big deal. The church clearly did not think this. At least some very close higerups did not because they are the ones who told Newnham knowing he would report it.

    Repeat. Clearly some felt the news should come out right away rather than one last sunday morning coverup cum offering and they made sure that is exactly what happened

    This blog had nothing to report except for what some very connected church leaders gave the writer to report.

    So 100 percent of all complaints should be at those in church leadership who leaked the news. Keep the witchhunt there and find out who on the board insisted the news wait until after services and who wanted immediate notification. Don’t blame the press.

  611. @616
    The covenant with the many is for seven years. The tribulation as Jesus described in Matthew 24:15 is at the middle of the week. Hence, 3 1/2 years of tribulation.

    BTW, you might want to be a bit more cautious with the word prognosis, or at least become more informed to the breadth of its meaning.

  612. “So 100 percent of all complaints should be at those in church leadership who leaked the news.”

    Bingo. Someone here is thinking. ;)

  613. one more thing. I have read that 7500 attended the meeting last week. We are told 20,000 attend the church. That is pretty poor turnout given the news and I wonder how many of the 7500 already knew something was up anyway. So this is a serious question.

    Was a 2nd announcement made today at services? Was any reference at all made to the transistion. I am sure a church that size had plenty of people who did not attend last week as they likely miss from time to time. Were prayers publicly offered for Bob’s wife and children and the church Bob has hurt so badly or has the church now expunged the record and just moving forward. a normal message from an assistant with no mention whatsoever of anything.

    I don’t attand and so I ask sincerely

  614. I don’t have time to comment much, but let me clear up a couple of things.
    CCFTL knew this could break wide open by Friday night/Saturday morning.
    They were expecting it.
    I can document that.
    I ran my story Saturday afternoon.
    They chose to ignore the explosion that created and run all their services as normal anyway.
    That was their choice, not mine.
    They had plenty of time to tell their people and they already had prepared for their “family meeting”.

  615. I listened to the message at calvary today. You can listen at their website. Sauder read a letter Bob Haskins wrote, talked briefly about Bob not being there, then turned it to Satan being at work, and how this is a time to look at ourselves. It was masterful manipulation off the main issue. Then all were invited up to search their hearts. Sad. Also, I notice Chef is no longer listed as a pastor. What’s up with that? Anyone know?

  616. That is a bummer about Chet. He and his wife actually had real world experience risking their necks for the sake of the gospel and giving the selves for themselves for the least of the lost in war torn Liberia in the late 90’s.

  617. Flynn,
    “He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ ”

    You obviously do not understand how numbers are used in Daniel. Specifically when using the number 7.
    Read Daniel 4 – v.16 “…and let seven periods of time pass over him. ”
    v.23 – “…and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven periods of time pass over him,’
    v.25 – “…and seven periods of time shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will.”

    Daniel uses the 7s in it’s proper biblical sense – to mean a completeness of time – this is not a specific period of time.

    The message to Nebuchadnezzar is “however long it takes for you to learn who is the Most High God.”

    There is another one in Daniel 3 – “He ordered the furnace heated seven times more than it was usually heated.” Now according to your view of numbers in Daniel, they would need to check the temperature with their thermometer and raise the thermostat from 400 degrees to 2,800 degrees. Is this what was meant or was Nebuchadnezzar telling them to get it as hot as possible?

    Look in Daniel 1 – v 20. – “And in every matter of wisdom and understanding about which the king inquired of them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and enchanters that were in all his kingdom.” So what you are saying is if all the other guys had IQs of 120 – then Daniel and his buddies had IQs of 1,200?

    Flynn, what else have you learned from Chuck Missler and your Schofield Bible?

  618. “Flynn, what else have you learned from Chuck Missler and your Schofield Bible?”

    LOL

  619. Barbara #625. I have no use for Macarthur but the info on your links is bogus. Red herring.

  620. Gary #633. How is it bogus? Everything is documented from Macarthur’s own words.

  621. Barbara wrote: “The following exposes present facts about John Macarthur that he needed to know and we tried to explain, but to no avail”

    Good and valid exposure.

  622. Scott @ 593….

    I was thinking bull, too, just without the china-shop analogy…..

  623. Re: “moral failings”
    They do not expound because they do not WANT to expound. I would imagine Bob is fine with that –it allows him to retain leverage for a future power-play if needed.
    If the congregation projects their own meaning onto what “moral failure” means–well…there are as many meanings as congregants and not a one really knows what happened.
    But I suspect the board is not relishing any sordid details; on the contrary they feel compelled to cover for the reputation of the christian church. From that inner circle of men trying to navigate this atrocity–I really doubt they want everyone they have “shared Christ with” for years to hear the details about their beloved pastor????
    How am I sure there are details? If there weren’t…Bob would just own up. An indiscretion with a woman…..ok….two women is “ok” in this culture. [sad to say but true in my experience] Bob could easily do 6 months to a year for that and be right back at it in no time. He would simply “confess–own it all publicly–write a new book on his time off–and marvel at God’s “grace” toward him. And I still think that those board members would think that was the best case scenario if that option was on the table. But something is stopping them from allowing that to happen–something they really do not want to share.
    Sordid details.
    Those board members probably realize that his broken trust with the congregation is one that cannot be regained with Bob’s words. (Someone that good with words no doubt uses them as manipulative tools) Trusts broken to this degree can only be restored by years of observing consistently changed and altogether new attitudes and behavior toward God’s people. I say years because it is easy to fake a “Come to Jesus moment” for a year maybe two.
    The “covering” tells me that whatever Bob’s “moral failures” were–it warrants protection for the Body. Against a power play by Bob [ie. a new church down the street] Against the dysfunctions of the church [ "Why can't we all just get along? Where's the grace?"] Against Bob’s inability to see the situation clearly and with Spirit’s lens ["God's gifts and callings are irrevocable--I just need to exercise my gift so the peeps can get saved? on and on ad nauseum "]
    The real power won’t be shown by succumbing to any of these dangers. And bravo to a strong board if they are able to prevent these common pitfalls of a fall. But the real power will be shown if within the church family’s context, they watch a humbled Bob emerge and heal and discover God anew. If they see him relinquish control–submit to leadership he disagrees with, defers his influence to other more healthy leaders etc etc. If they see him go to the offended and attempt reconciliation–regardless of their response to him–and maintain a gracious patience with those offended. And this must continue for no less than the time it takes to convince (with actions/not words) the Body that the work they see in Bob is God’s and not Bob’s. Cause all we know now is that Bob can work it. And that is gonna take a while to undo.

  624. Barbara,
    Sure there are some quotes but the conclusions are laughable.

  625. If that board doesn’t see evidence of Bob relinquishing his power over this injured and vulnerable group of people in Ft Lauderdale and beyond, then they will have no choice but to release enough of the “details” to protect the Body from a fallen pastor who has no idea how dangerous he is to a people he claims to have loved. The language of this episode smacks of a scenario like the one I just described. There is just NO WAY a board would put an organization this big at risk unless they were guarding something more.
    This is all speculative–but something I know all too well. I’d wager something huge that Bob is not who they all think he is. He is not who he himself thinks he is. Only God can recover that man from what the enemy has so carefully, and with precision timing, orchestrated to bring dishonor to God’s kingdom.
    This situation needs wisdom, prayer, and inordinately strong men/women to hold their course and see this thing through.

  626. Amen to #639, especially your last paragraph, Ps40.

  627. And the “leak” from the board was no doubt insurance against a coup d’etat of bob-loyalists attempting to unseat the floundering-shell-shocked and “in charge” for the very first time board. Good or them!!! They are being good guardians and deserve no finger pointing–just applause for being brave and having the character to do such a thing. Of course all of this is only necessary if Bob continued his maneuvering with long tethers to his followers–cause that’s how unhealthy people of influence roll.
    IMO , there is nothing less Christ like on this planet than fighting for control.

  628. Am I still being censured by MN?
    I responded previously, and he chose to keep my answers out, I guess MN is a Calvanist and I was profaning his sacred cow!

  629. MLD
    Daniel 4: Vs 16 – “Seven times pass over him”
    A “time” may logically be thought of as a year considering that a year is a natural time unit, the longest one. It is a full cycle of seasons, as it is passing over him. MLD In your desire to make the scriptures fit with your predisposed interpretation, you’re assigning a secondary meaning that the text does not warrant, the text is giving us a period of time not a symbolic application as you are trying to assert.

    Most commentators will agree that seven times is seven complete revolutions of time, being a unit of a year for each time.

    “Seven” is the perfect number: a week of years: a complete revolution of time accompanying a complete revolution in his state of mind.” Jamieson, Fausset & Brown

    And no I don’t listen to Chuck Missler or have a Schofield, I just read the Bible, you should try it sometime!

  630. Why do people keep blaming satan and setting up some evil master plan against God?

    Scripture tells me Bob C thought it, conceived, it and did it. Same story with sin throughout the scriptures, with example after example. So please put blame where blame is due, Bob Coy.

  631. I’ve studied John Macarthur for quite some time and know him to be a wolf in sheep’s clothes. And I have a sincere question about him. He claims that he was present at the Martin Luther King assassination crime scenes. And he also claims falsely that he was able to gain access because these crime scenes were unprotected. So my question is why was John Macarthur able to gain access to these most important crime scenes? Read his account here and give me the answer:
    http://www.thewatchmanwakes.com/John-Macarthur-and-the-Blood-of-Martin-Luther-King.html

  632. MacArthur isn’t a wolf in sheep’s clothing, he’s just a self-righteous pious a-hole from the pulpit, but at least he tows his own line in his personal life.

    I knew his daughter, he was a good dad. I hung out with Mac behind the scenes, he was actually quite a nice guy outside the pulpit. I knew/know many who know him and he has no skeletons.

    My beef with Mac is that his version of the gospel is “gospel by correct doctrine and holy living” which I don’t think is correct. Otherwise, at least he doesn’t get rich off of Jesus and doesn’t bilk people of their money and tows the moral line he lays down.

  633. Bob,

    Read some of the reporting from the time.
    The crime scene was scandalously unprotected.

  634. flynn,

    Michael isn’t a Calvanist.
    Michael is a Calvinist.
    You are an idiot.

    Now we have correctly identified each other.

  635. That explains a lot!

  636. And your calling me an idiot seems to indicate that Calvinism is idiocy with which I agree completely!

  637. Flynn,
    “And no I don’t listen to Chuck Missler or have a Schofield, I just read the Bible, you should try it sometime!”

    You are a funny guy – 1st you quote to me Jamieson, Fausset & Brown, and then you tell me you JUST READ THE BIBLE – which is it.

    But the point you missed was your quote supported my view 100% – that the “seven times” is definitely not years – but cycles of some sort or as I said, “the complete amount of time needed to work Nebe …” or as JFB “say a complete revolution in his state of mind”

    LOL :-).

  638. Flynn,

    You are incapable of doing anything but parroting what what you’ve heard.
    I will draw no further comparisons between yourself and a bird with a brain the size of a nut.
    Make your own application…

  639. Bob wrote: “I’ve studied John Macarthur for quite some time and know him to be a wolf in sheep’s clothes”

    That’s a fact. He believes the false gospel of “lordship salvation” which cannot save. He shucks at the power of the blood of Jesus, he basically says “no problem” regarding the mark of the beast… the list goes on and on.

  640. John MacArthur has been and is a great man of God and a faithful servant of the same.
    I disagree with him on many points, but I will not slander him.

  641. It’s not slander to point out severe doctrinal errors. It’s commanded in Scripture to do so.

  642. A Calvinist sniffing for sin and pointing the finger at those who have been successful with a different paradigm, and relishing in the fall of those who do not hold his view, seems to be very suspect and stinks of ulterior motives. To simply read the Bible simply you would never come up with conclusions like; God has chosen some to go to Hell randomly, Jesus only died for the Christians, man does not have a free will to choose salvation, and the many false conclusions Calvinism draws. So I would say there is a different parrot on this post and it’s the parrot that mimics a heretic named John Calvin!

  643. Flynn wrote: “To simply read the Bible simply you would never come up with conclusions like…”

    That is so true. It takes some man to teach people to come to those conclusions that you would never come to without that man. It’s a constant throughout human history.

  644. Andy,

    There are very few doctrinal stances in Protestantism that I find more odious than your ‘free grace” doctrines and the pre trib rapture stuff.
    Having said that, I can still speak respectfully to you and not accuse you of a ‘false Gospel” and all the other loaded terms I’ve read here.
    These are differences in interpretation and tradition…and they fall within orthodoxy.

  645. Michael, the thing is that MacArthur isn’t here. He’s on the radio and all around the world. How is that any different than the Bob Coy situation? Coy is exposed for his moral situation. But doctrine doesn’t fall into that same category? How you define orthodoxy isn’t the final word on the matter, is it? It can’t be, for me and for the entire planet. It can be if you want it that way here, after all, it is your blog.

  646. Flynn,

    Calvin did not come up with any new doctrines, nor did he teach the mangled misrepresentations that you have presented.
    You know little to nothing of what you speak and I’m not going to waste any time trying to help you as i perceive you to be utterly unteachable.

  647. Andy,

    The church is over 2000 years old.
    I simply will not limit orthodoxy to 20th century American evangelical views…and a niche of American evangelicalism at that.

  648. Thak you for sparing me hahaha, I already had my sleep for the night, and for not trying to make me a Calvin disciple, I see how they turn out hahaha!

  649. Michael, I do believe we’ve had this discussion in the past in much detail, so no point in rehashing. But just as a reminder, within that 2000 years is some good, and some very bad. Not everything that calls itself Christian, actually is.

  650. To Michael (#646), It isn’t the case that the MLK crime scene was unprotected. The MLK trail transcript makes it clear from witness testimony that the MLK crime scene was barricaded by police within 2 minutes of King getting shot.
    http://members.tranquility.net/~rwinkel/911/Wakeup2/MLKTrial.html

  651. Bob,

    Read some of the reports from that night…it’s all over the place in reputable sources.

  652. To Andy (#652), Good points. John Macarthur has been teaching that one can take the Mark of the Beast and still be redeemed for more than 30 years. He has also been teaching for even longer that the blood of Jesus Christ has no power to save. These are well documented facts. Too bad Christians don’t look beyond a man’s reputation to the truth. Now how a man can be considered a great “Bible expositor” when he teaches that it’s OK to take the Mark? Christians, beware of the deadly doctrines of Calvinism/dominionism.

  653. to 666/Bob – we don’t even know what the “mark” truly is – some say it is symbolic, some say physical and some say mental:(

  654. Bob,

    Calvinism and dominionism are two different things.
    MacArthur is being grossly misrepresented here.

  655. Bob wrote: “Now how a man can be considered a great “Bible expositor” when he teaches that it’s OK to take the Mark?”

    Well said. People out there in churches seem to lean in the direction of caring very much about moral issues, but they ignore doctrine. And then others might go in the other direction. But the Bible tells us to care about both. By sheer volume in the epistles, doctrine is brought up more than moral issues. Without right doctrine, it doesn’t matter how well they were behaving.

  656. Bob @ 666,

    Did you just take the mark of 666? :) I agree with Michael, that MacArthur is being grossly misrepresented here. Calvinism and Dominion ism are completely different as well. I lean towards Calvinism but not even close to Dominion-ism.

  657. Mary! come now and get real – it is plain as day, that if you really read the Bible with all your heart you would know that the mark of the beast is a bar code stamped on your forehead.

    It is plain as day – but these are the same folks who bring us blood moons, 1,000 yr earthly Jesus reigns – raptures etc.. ;-)

  658. Andrew,

    Macarthur being grossly misrepresented? He teaches clearly that one can take the Mark of the beast and still be redeemed. Listen to his own words here:
    http://www.thewatchmanwakes.com/John-Macarthur–Mark-of-the-Beast.html

  659. Bob,

    That may be his opinion.
    I reject his whole eschatological scheme, so I could care less.
    There is more nonsense on that site than I think I’ve ever seen piled in one place.

  660. Michael,

    You give me a link that says the MLK crime scene was unprotected that night. I want to see for myself. Also, do you know that the powers-that-be removed numerous bushes that night from which the fatal shot was fired? Why would they allow or risk the public seeing this crime scene being removed and altered? I’m asking sincere questions. Maybe the crime scene was unprotected late that night.

  661. Bob,

    This is all speculation and I don’t think MacArthur should do this kind of thing. However, I’m not a dispensationalist so I kind of reject that entire mode of thinking to begin with.

  662. To MLD

    “Mary! come now and get real – it is plain as day, that if you really read the Bible with all your heart you would know that the mark of the beast is a bar code stamped on your forehead”.

    Please provide verse – my bible does NOT say bar code. Your cognitive dissonance is kicking in.

  663. Mary! One day I will explain to you what the ;-) means

  664. Ok I got it:) So do you NOT believe jesus is coming back for the bride one day?

  665. Mary,
    Of course I believe in the return of Jesus – I don’t believe in a rapture beforehand and I do not believe in a 1,000 yr earthly reign afterwards.

  666. MLD – this is interesting and the first ive heard of this. Can you provide some more info – links, etc.? Here is fine, but not sure of the rest of the readers care for this and don’t wish to clog up the blog:) Thanks.

  667. Mary!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amillennialism

    WIKI article is pretty good. – note the opening line “Amillennialism is the mainstream Christian end-times theology,

    Read under the heading Modern Times and get a partial list of who holds this position. Just so you know 80% of the Church worldwide holds this position … except in American Pop Evangelicalism.

  668. “Amillennialism” is for those that refuse to take the Bible literally, and shuck it off as if it just originated in the last 150 years (which is a lie, since all the first believers were against this ghastly false doctrine).

    As a doctrine, it leads people to follow the antichrist who comes to unite the world’s belief systems.

  669. To make my last post clear, the “amillennial” position is not from God, and the true position, that takes the Bible literally and believes in a literal 1000 year Kingdom when Jesus returns, is the original position that the first believers held.

  670. Andy,
    Let’s try this – show me 2 things;
    1.) where the Bible literally says that there will be a 1,000 yr EARTHLY reign of Christ – this should not be hard since it is so clear.

    2.) where Jesus, in speaking of his return, spoke of this 1,000 yr earthly reign

  671. Andy,

    I’m not amill, but that was a ludicrous statement.

  672. MLD #681. Irenaeus taught dispensationalism in the 2nd century. See Against Heresies, Book V. He was refuting arch heretics Marcion and Valentinus who taught amillennialism.

    http://watch-unto-prayer.org/rapture.html#propaganda

    “Inasmuch, therefore, as the opinions of certain [orthodox persons] are derived from heretical discourses, they are both ignorant of God’s dispensations, and of the mystery of the resurrection of the just, and of the [earthly] kingdom which is the commencement of incorruption, by means of which kingdom those who shall be worthy are accustomed gradually to partake of the divine nature (capere Deum ); and it is necessary to tell them respecting those things, that it behoves the righteous first to receive the promise of the inheritance which God promised to the fathers, and to reign in it, when they rise again to behold God in this creation which is renovated, and that the judgment should take place afterwards.” (Against Heresies, Book V, 30.4)

  673. MLD, no point in debating anything with you. You sound too often like a bored office worker that just likes to argue with people online.

    I already annihilated your “baptism is required to receive the Spirit” thing yesterday, with the house of Cornelius getting the Spirit before baptism. And so if you can’t read “shall reign with him 1000 years” as “shall reign with him 1000 years”, that is your personal issue.

    Michael, you agree with 0% of the things that come out of my mouth, so calling me ludicrous is only adding to the list of pejoratives I’ve accumulated from you :)

  674. Barbara, well done. It was catholic Augustine that popularized the false amillennial position, since he envisioned the catholic church as taking control of the world (dominionism back before it was widespread). The reformed/protestant groups picked up on it, since they were catholics and knew nothing else. Reforming catholicism doesn’t work.

  675. Barbara – first off, that was not the question. 2nd, I don’t believe much that I see quoted on these rapture ready type web sites. 3rd, there is a difference between millennialism and dispesationalism .

    But the question still goes back to where in the Bible is a clear statement that Jesus will return to rule physically on earth for 1,000 yrs and where did Jesus ever speak of this?

  676. Dispensationalism was unheard of until the 1800’s.
    That passage is no more teaching dispensationalism than ice hockey rules.

  677. Andy,
    ” And so if you can’t read “shall reign with him 1000 years” as “shall reign with him 1000 years”, that is your personal issue.”
    Hey, just show me the verse and the reference that it is an earthly rule – I will change my position.

    But let me give you a hint, in apocalyptic literature, every time thrones are mentioned it is a heavenly scene. Let’s see what you have.

  678. Andy,

    Check out any of the Reformers on the anti-Christ…

  679. Michael wrote: “Dispensationalism was unheard of until the 1800′s”

    Barbara already answered this myth.

    Notice how all Christians are all supposed to get along with one another, kumbayah, and yet when a (secondary?) doctrine like eschatology comes up, they all come out with very strong verbiage? Why is that, exactly?

    I don’t have to answer this question, since, I believe in contending for every point of doctrine, even the “secondary” issues.

    Those that think me wrong for doing so, should set the example for me, and let it go. ;)

  680. Andy, did you get your 691 out of a Chick comic book? Aren’t you embarrassed by what comes out of your brain?

  681. Note that MLD’s hateful 695 doesn’t even consider my 694, about unnecessary strong verbiage. :)

  682. Just so everyone knows, I am not Andy. People have confused us before and want to make sure I am not associated with his strange ideas. I am much more amil in my beliefs. But to be honest, I don’t think eschatology should be a dividing line doctrine that some folks put it into. Just my two cents.

  683. Andy, you are Eddie Murphy kind of funny. You jump in to the information I gave Mary, with your strong claims and accusations and then back out and say “I don’t have to answer.” LOL

  684. MLD, I answered you already, in 688, like I answered your baptism error with the house of Cornelius yesterday.

    You hate the answer. That isn’t my fault.

  685. Andy,
    I saw no verses posted by you AND you have not shown where Jesus spoke of this 1,000 yr earthy reign.

    Look Jesus does speak of his return very clearly in Matt 25, the 2nd half about the sheep and the goats
    1.) he returns to earth
    2.) he separates the sheep and the goats
    3.) he pronounces judgement
    4.) he dispatches each to their eternal destinies
    5.) end of earthly story.

    Where is this supposed 1,000 yr earthly reign. Did Jesus forget or had he not yet read the play book?

  686. Revelation 20:6. Unless you will claim that Revelation is not part of the Bible. Martin Luther wanted it thrown out along with James and a couple other books.

  687. MLD #690. Please see Revelation 20.

    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; AND THEY LIVED AND REIGNED WITH CHRIST A THOUSAND YEARS.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the THOUSAND YEARS were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and SHALL REIGN WITH HIM A THOUSAND YEARS.
    7 And when the THOUSAND YEARS are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    8 And shall go out to deceive the NATIONS WHICH ARE IN THE FOUR QUARTERS OF THE EARTH, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

  688. Fascinating.

  689. Andy & Barbara,
    I said earlier (and was alluding to these verses) in apocalyptic literature every time there is a mention of thrones, it is a heavenly scene and not an earthy scene.

  690. But let me ask this – why don’t you listen to what the apostles said about this period?

  691. Can you provide Scripture which states that “in apocalyptic literature every time there is a mention of thrones, it is a heavenly scene and not an earthy scene”?

  692. MLD, we are listening to the apostles. You are listening to Luther and Augustine.

    How I have seen just over the last two days, about where a person goes for Bible interpretation, will make all the difference. Luther wrote what he wrote, so you go with that, no matter what. Seems sad, really.

  693. The Apostle Peter in Acts 2 at Pentecost states that Christ sitting on David’s throne is a present day event.
    “29 “Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,

    “‘The Lord said to my Lord,
    “Sit at my right hand,
    35 until I make your enemies your footstool.”’

    36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

  694. Barbara,
    You will have to do the homework. Look up all the scenes with thrones and God’s people gathered around and determine if it is on earth or in heaven.

  695. Andy,
    “How I have seen just over the last two days, about where a person goes for Bible interpretation, will make all the difference.” Chuck Missler and John Hagee wrote exactly what you are trying to sell. LOL

  696. MLD, nothing in your 708 says that the 1000 years of Revelation, are “figurative”.

    I don’t know anything about John Hagee (I don’t watch TV), and as for Chuck Missler, I never listened to him.

    You, however, are Martin Luther’s disciple, so we know where to find the beliefs you swiped.

  697. Andy, the whole passage is figurative or symbolic. Give me a break.
    Let’s look
    20:1 “Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit” – do angels have hands? Do you think the bottomless pit actually has a padlock?

    20:2 – “and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him – who was grabbed? Was it a dragon or a serpent? Does Satan have a body? How was this non bodied being bound with a chain? BTW, what gauge chain do you think it would take to bind satan?

    20:3 – “and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him,” What kind of a pit will hold a non bodied being like Satan.

    And then you want me to take the 1,000 yrs as literal when there has been nothing literal in the chapter? Come on.

    Now, explain the literal meaning of the chain. LOL

  698. MLD, I do believe that satan is bound with a chain of some sort. God is able to do that.

    The problem here is, that you are a skeptic, period. That’s the issue. If God says He does it with a chain, then He does it with a chain.

  699. To Ribo (#646),

    You say regarding John Macarthur, “Otherwise, at least he doesn’t get rich off of Jesus and doesn’t bilk people of their money and tows the moral line he lays down.” Really? It’s in the public record that for working part time for Grace To You in 2011 he earned $402,000. He also earned more than $100,000 from The Masters Seminary the same year. That’s over a half million, not including his church salary, book royalties and possible speaking fees. I think it’s safe to say Macarthur earns over a million per year “off jesus.” Check out the evidence here:
    http://www.thewatchmanwakes.com/John-Macarthur-salary-GCC-corporation-Larry-King.html

    And if that’s not enough proof that he’s getting rich off Jesus, then understand that John Macarthur’s Grace To You with Macarthur as President and his two sons as Director and Treasurer, give $700,000 annually to a private firm owned 100% by John Macarthur’s son-in-law. Check out the evidence here:
    http://www.thewatchmanwakes.com/John-Macarthur-Kory-Welch.html

  700. bob wrote: “And if that’s not enough proof that he’s getting rich off Jesus”

    And don’t forget that one of MacArthur’s disciples, Francis Chan, is constantly preaching that American Christians are too rich and need to give it away to the world, as part of his works-based errors concerning the Gospel.

  701. Andy, OK, you go with that – but to hold your position you have to call Peter a liar in Acts 2.

  702. MLD, your Acts 2 interpretation is from Luther. It has nothing to do with the Bible.

  703. Andy, now you are not being honest – in fact you are being purposely dishonest. I did not interpret Acts 2 – I just posted it.

    The interpretation is right there in the text – he is telling the listeners that they are witnessing that very event..

    You can keep attacking Luther – it doesn’t phase me one bit. It just shows you can’t answer me, so you put up a man who has been dead over 400 yrs and argue with him.

  704. MLD wrote: “so you put up a man who has been dead over 400 yrs and argue with him”

    I didn’t bring him up. You bring him up every time you post, because you are his disciple.

    You give yourself a severe disadvantage by doing so, whenever you are discussing doctrine with someone. Because, they know where you got your doctrine, and they know going in, all the errors and twists of interpretation.

    You can try and stick anything on me you like. Am I “Chuck Smith’s disciple”? I disagree with Smith on losing salvation (I don’t believe you can lose salvation), on counting a generation from the re-establishment of Israel, on the resurrection body. Lots of things.

    What do you disagree with Luther on, just for the sake of argument?

  705. I haven’t brought up Luther once – I very rarely quote him. You my friend constantly bring him up.

    But you are void on answering my points – even right now you did not respond to the Acts 2 “interpretation” charge but diverted back to Luther.

  706. MLD, Acts 2 has nothing to do with Revelation’s description of the 1000 years. You are stalling.

    Answer my question… What do you disagree with Luther on?

  707. MLD wrote: “I haven’t brought up Luther once”

    His picture is in every one of your posts.

  708. Andy,

    When all you know about a position is the way it is caricatured you should avoid comment. People who know what they are talking about get bored real fast. You do not know amillennialism from duck squat.

  709. Andy, I will not play your game. You said that the 1,000 yrs had to be taken literally. I showed you that nothing in the passage is literal – which would include the 1,000 yrs and you defaulted to “the chains are real.” Let’s talk about how 1,000 is used in scriture – Jesus owns the cattle on a 1,000 hills – literal or figurative (figurative is the answer – or, who owns the cattle on hill #1,001?) What is 1,00 yrs to God? Is it like a day or is a day like a 1,000 yrs?

    I have no desire to speak Luther to you.

    The Acts 2 passage has everything to do with why you misinterpret Rev 20 to be Jesus sitting on David’s throne as a future event – when Peter said it was a present event.

  710. MLD, until you show me that you are wiling to disagree with Luther on anything, then it is, in essence, me discussing doctrine with a man that has been dead for centuries. Is there anything you disagree with him upon? Anything at all?

  711. Andy, your gravitar is a New Age symbol (I’ll bet you did not know that) – so what does that say about your comments?

    So, what about babylon’s Dread – is his theology from Homer Simpson?

  712. OK, here is my Luther disagreement – we have different tastes in beer.

  713. Moniker perversion… sorry for the T trouble…

  714. MLD, I don’t know anything about Babylon’s Dread. This website is, usually, dominated by people that hold to one very narrow view of eschatology. So engaging with a second person right now, not interested.

    I’m still waiting to see if you disagree with Luther on anything. Was he ever wrong?

  715. MLD, I see. So you are surely Martin Luther’s disciple. In that you are named well.

    Therefore the discussion is pointless. You will tow the line no matter what.

  716. Can you show me where I have expressed a uniquely Luther position? Even just one? Something that no one else has held before or after Luther?

  717. MLD, I’m simply asking you to tell me ONE thing that Luther was wrong about in doctrine (in his confessions or from whatever source you like). Just one.

  718. You have never read any of Luther’s writings (I am sure at best you have read only out of context internet quotes) so a discussion about Luther would be unprofitable.

    I know this to be true because you have stated many times that you read only the Bible.

    I will leave you alone to work on the Acts 2 passage – it destroys the future 1,000 yr earthy reign.

  719. MLD, again, Acts 2 isn’t speaking on the truth of a literal 1000 years in Revelation.

    You are covering for a very scary thing. That thing being, Luther is never wrong, in your estimation. That is indeed, spiritually scary.

  720. Yeah – right.

    Here is what Acts 2 does to your literal 1,000 yrs. If Acts 2 is correct and the reign of Christ is a current event – then the 1,000 yrs has actually been almost 2,000 yrs already.

  721. MLD, so satan has been bound over that 2000 years? Please.

    You’re just twisting Acts 2. It doesn’t say or infer anything you are saying. Just like you were proven wrong about the giving of the Holy Spirit requiring baptism. You’re just twisting Acts 2 in the same way.

    But keep bringing it up, if it takes the attention away from the fact that you basically have an infallible man named Luther that you believe has no wrong doctrines at all.

  722. So when is literal? is the 7 associated with Daniel? is the 1000 years? anyone check this in the greek?

  723. Since you have only been taught the CC line – yes, Satan has been bound for the past 2,000 years. I might add, and only because I know you don’t know this, but it was Jesus in the gospels who told us that he has already bound Satan.

    And why do you find this surprising?

  724. MLD, satan is bound? Really? He is in the pit, chained and bound?

    Wow, the kingdom is disappointing. Here we are, with sicknesses, war, hate, famine, destruction world wide.

    Jesus really dropped the ball. After all, the lion was supposed to lay down with the lamb, and yet, the lions keep eating the lambs.

    I’m not CC, by the way.

    But you still haven’t addressed the question, has Luther ever taught anything wrong? Just a simple yes or no will suffice.

  725. Where did you ever get the idea that the millennium was to be disneyland?? I don’t find that in the NT – you will need to show me.

    Do you know the reason for binding Satan? If you think it is to avoid war, famine and sickness you are wrong. it is right there in your favorite Rev 20 passage.

    Why was he bound and have we seen the results of that binding?

  726. MLD, so Isaiah is the Old Testament, therefore it is invalid. I’m learning all about a day in the life of MLD.

    Boy do you have to stretch to believe this stuff. You have to take literal and spiritualize it all. You have to reject the Old Testament. You have to turn blind eyes to the very world around you, and how ugly it is.

  727. Let’s see you tie that to Rev 20. I can just throw out stuff also. How do you know that Isaiah is speaking of the millennium other than Missler or some other end times guru told you. told you.

    The reason for Satan’s binding is clear – “so that he might not deceive the nations any longer,”. At the time, God was pretty much restricted to Israel and a few surrounding areas. But since the binding of Satan, the word has gone all over the word.

    So “so that he might not deceive the nations any longer,” does not equal your version of Satan was bound so we could have worldwide disneyland.

  728. “MLD, no point in debating anything with you. You sound too often like a bored office worker that just likes to argue with people online.” yup

    hmmm How can we clear the room?

    BRING IN THE LUTHERAN! LOL

  729. Pointless waste of time.

  730. Yet Andy made about 30 comments after saying it wasn’t worth talking to me.

    So Gary, why do you bring up the Lutheran thing. I have not argued a single Lutheran point today. What I did say is held by 80% of the Church today. I speak with the people right out of the Bible :-)

  731. MLD wrote: “Yet Andy made about 30 comments after saying it wasn’t worth talking to me”

    I also sometimes am forgetful, as everyone can be, that I should have rejected the conversation after the first or second admonition of your errors. I will remember next time.

  732. Martin Luther’s Disciple says: So Gary, why do you bring up the Lutheran thing.

    ha ha ha

  733. Andy,
    I made a couple of comments to Mary! You chose to join in – I did not initiate the conversation.

    But I should know better than to engage with people who hold to replacement theology.

  734. MLD wrote: “But I should know better than to engage with people who hold to replacement theology”

    I hate replacement theology. Keep making stuff up, friend.

  735. No, your position has replaced Jesus Christ who is the sum and substance of all prophecy, with the nation state of Israel. Even though Jesus said that all of the OT was about him, you pre mil dispies say no Jesus, there are still outstanding promises to Israel … you owe them.

  736. Look at any end times prophecy books on the shelf today – all written by dispies. they will mention Israel 100 times for every mention of Jesus Christ.

    Yep pre mil dispies are replacement theologians

    Gotta run, me and the wife are clocking out of work and going home. :-)

  737. Well….this has been a hoot 8)

    What was this thread about? Oh yeah….

  738. PN

    don’t know if this is what you were going for but…..

    8) = space:cool:space :cool:

  739. if not then space:oops:space :oops:

  740. Thanks Dusters!

    Used to be able to go ‘space8)space’ & get the smiley with sunglasses.

    I guess things change & I don’t ;)

  741. I don’t like when things change :(

  742. did you see me talking to myself all afternoon on the other thread? :oops:

  743. now im talking to myself here :(

  744. No, I didn’t see it…

    Who won THAT argument ? :cool:

  745. ROFLOL silly man

  746. Sounds like you lost….sorry, Dusters !

  747. :( ohhhh lolololol ROFLOL yep, I did. ;)

  748. That’s what I love about Calvinist preterists, and that is that they are consistent, in denying the literal aspects of scripture and have to do exegetical gymnastics and use pretzel logic to try to prove their conclusions that the Bible does not mean what it says, and says what it means, so when it says that there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ, it doesn’t really mean a 1000 year reign, but it’s symbolic, in fact we are already in the millennium, in fact the lamb is lying with the lion, it’s to be taken spiritually, (I had one preterist tell me that his cat and his parakeet were getting along and played together and that that was proof for him that we were in the millennium), and Satan is chained up right now (yeah right!), and the Christians will take over all the positions of government and usher in the return of Christ, and here’s the kicker, all the prophecies have already taken place, 666 on the forehead or right hand is symbolic too…Wow so much I missed because according to the preterist the prophecy of the Euphrates river drying up and a 200 million men army and the giants of the east being woken up and islands sinking into the ocean and 70 pound boulders falling from heaven, in a tribulation period never before experienced in the history of man, and all the plagues of revelation, all that has already taken place, yes folks back in 70 AD when Nero, who by the way was the Antichrist, sacked Jerusalem, gee I guess he had all the power of Satan, and the false prophet, well we’ll have to spiritualize that one too. And Israel becoming a nation in 1948? No that’s not a fulfillment of prophecy, that was just those pesky Zionists, who made that happen, no it wasn’t God fulfilling his word and the prophecies in the O.T concerning Israel. If these Calvanistic preterists would have been around at the time when Jesus ascended into heaven, as the disciples looked up, and the angels said, “why do you stand here oh men of Galillee, for in the same way you saw him ascend, he will also descend!” they would probably have started arguing with the angel, no he can’t come back again corporeally, it would have to be spiritually, because it’s something that our little tiny minds can’t understand, we have to reinterpret what you angels are saying, it must mean a spiritual return,” don’t you hear them saying, “it must mean a spiritual mark on the forehead,” “it must mean a symbolic 1000 years,” “it must mean a symbolic 7 years….” and on and on they go, they remind me of the Sadducees, who denied the miraculous, well the Preterists have nothing to look forward to as we live in exciting times and see prophecies unfolding before our eyes, they are the nay saying Sadducees of our time, and they want to be included within the pale of orthodoxy, as they follow doctrines that deny the power of God and negate the promises of his soon return! The devil is astute as he infiltrates the church from the very beginning, first through Catholicism and then through Calvinism!

  749. “in fact the lamb is lying with the lion, it’s to be taken spiritually”

    Actually that is not in the Bible… a humorous mistake for a literalist. In fact in scripture the Lamb IS the Lion… because of symbolism.

    Thanks for late night humor HUGH

    and Babylon’s Dread is symbolic for

    Alan Hawkins

  750. Dang PN

    You beat me to the punch…

    Dreadlock

  751. Sorry, Dreadly…been biting my tongue….

    One too many run-on sentences of ignorance for me today.

    Enjoyed your input, though.

  752. And there they go, a lamb is not a lion a lion and a lamb are the same lol, anybody want a pretzel? Oh yeah let’s take care of that child playing with a snake, the snake is actually a licorice stick, nope no millennium there! Lol, they remind me of the dwarves in The Last Battle, who couldn’t see the reality of Aslan’s return because they were so locked up in their dark world (help yourself to the symbolism there mr. Calvin’s disciple, plenty there for you)! If you believe the preterist Calvinist view I’ve got a bridge in San Francisco I can sell you!

  753. As someone that leans amill and reformed, it’s all I can do to bite my tongue… jeesh…

  754. Hugh if you are going to MOCK at least read the Bible before you mock people who do actually read it. And I am not a Calvinist.

    5 And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”
    6 And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

    The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton: Standard Bible Society, 2001), Re 5:5–6.

  755. Thanks PN

    Someone tell Hugh he bought a bridge.

  756. I think this is your passage HUGH. Good luck with that bridge.

    6  The wolf shall dwell with the lamb,
    and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
    and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together;
    and a little child shall lead them.
    7  The cow and the bear shall graze;
    their young shall lie down together;
    and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
    8  The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra,
    and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder’s den.

    The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton: Standard Bible Society, 2001), Is 11:6–8.

  757. The reference is not to Rev 5
    But to Isaiah 11, which speaks of the millennium

    א וְיָצָא חֹטֶר, מִגֵּזַע יִשָׁי; וְנֵצֶר, מִשָּׁרָשָׁיו יִפְרֶה. 1 And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, and a twig shall grow forth out of his roots.
    ב וְנָחָה עָלָיו, רוּחַ יְהוָה–רוּחַ חָכְמָה וּבִינָה, רוּחַ עֵצָה וּגְבוּרָה, רוּחַ דַּעַת, וְיִרְאַת יְהוָה. 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.
    ג וַהֲרִיחוֹ, בְּיִרְאַת יְהוָה; וְלֹא-לְמַרְאֵה עֵינָיו יִשְׁפּוֹט, וְלֹא-לְמִשְׁמַע אָזְנָיו יוֹכִיחַ. 3 And his delight shall be in the fear of the LORD; and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither decide after the hearing of his ears;
    ד וְשָׁפַט בְּצֶדֶק דַּלִּים, וְהוֹכִיחַ בְּמִישׁוֹר לְעַנְוֵי-אָרֶץ; וְהִכָּה-אֶרֶץ בְּשֵׁבֶט פִּיו, וּבְרוּחַ שְׂפָתָיו יָמִית רָשָׁע. 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the land; and he shall smite the land with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
    ה וְהָיָה צֶדֶק, אֵזוֹר מָתְנָיו; וְהָאֱמוּנָה, אֵזוֹר חֲלָצָיו. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
    ו וְגָר זְאֵב עִם-כֶּבֶשׂ, וְנָמֵר עִם-גְּדִי יִרְבָּץ; וְעֵגֶל וּכְפִיר וּמְרִיא יַחְדָּו, וְנַעַר קָטֹן נֹהֵג בָּם. 6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
    ז וּפָרָה וָדֹב תִּרְעֶינָה, יַחְדָּו יִרְבְּצוּ יַלְדֵיהֶן; וְאַרְיֵה, כַּבָּקָר יֹאכַל-תֶּבֶן. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
    ח וְשִׁעֲשַׁע יוֹנֵק, עַל-חֻר פָּתֶן; וְעַל מְאוּרַת צִפְעוֹנִי, גָּמוּל יָדוֹ הָדָה. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the basilisk’s den.
    ט לֹא-יָרֵעוּ וְלֹא-יַשְׁחִיתוּ, בְּכָל-הַר קָדְשִׁי: כִּי-מָלְאָה הָאָרֶץ, דֵּעָה אֶת-יְהוָה, כַּמַּיִם, לַיָּם מְכַסִּים. {ס} 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. {S}
    י וְהָיָה, בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא, שֹׁרֶשׁ יִשַׁי אֲשֶׁר עֹמֵד לְנֵס עַמִּים, אֵלָיו גּוֹיִם יִדְרֹשׁוּ; וְהָיְתָה מְנֻחָתוֹ, כָּבוֹד. {פ} 10 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the root of Jesse, that standeth for an ensign of the peoples, unto him shall the nations seek; and his resting-place shall be glorious. {P}
    יא וְהָיָה בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא, יוֹסִיף אֲדֹנָי שֵׁנִית יָדוֹ, לִקְנוֹת, אֶת-שְׁאָר עַמּוֹ–אֲשֶׁר יִשָּׁאֵר מֵאַשּׁוּר וּמִמִּצְרַיִם וּמִפַּתְרוֹס וּמִכּוּשׁ, וּמֵעֵילָם וּמִשִּׁנְעָר וּמֵחֲמָת, וּמֵאִיֵּי, הַיָּם. 11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord will set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people, that shall remain from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
    יב וְנָשָׂא נֵס לַגּוֹיִם, וְאָסַף נִדְחֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל; וּנְפֻצוֹת יְהוּדָה יְקַבֵּץ, מֵאַרְבַּע כַּנְפוֹת הָאָרֶץ. 12 And He will set up an ensign for the nations, and will assemble the dispersed of Israel, and gather together the scattered of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
    יג וְסָרָה קִנְאַת אֶפְרַיִם, וְצֹרְרֵי יְהוּדָה יִכָּרֵתוּ: אֶפְרַיִם לֹא-יְקַנֵּא אֶת-יְהוּדָה, וִיהוּדָה לֹא-יָצֹר אֶת-אֶפְרָיִם. 13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and they that harass Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
    יד וְעָפוּ בְכָתֵף פְּלִשְׁתִּים יָמָּה, יַחְדָּו יָבֹזּוּ אֶת-בְּנֵי-קֶדֶם; אֱדוֹם וּמוֹאָב מִשְׁלוֹחַ יָדָם, וּבְנֵי עַמּוֹן מִשְׁמַעְתָּם. 14 And they shall fly down upon the shoulder of the Philistines on the west; together shall they spoil the children of the east; they shall put forth their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.
    טו וְהֶחֱרִים יְהוָה, אֵת לְשׁוֹן יָם-מִצְרַיִם, וְהֵנִיף יָדוֹ עַל-הַנָּהָר, בַּעְיָם רוּחוֹ; וְהִכָּהוּ לְשִׁבְעָה נְחָלִים, וְהִדְרִיךְ בַּנְּעָלִים. 15 And the LORD will utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with His scorching wind will He shake His hand over the River, and will smite it into seven streams, and cause men to march over dry-shod.
    טז וְהָיְתָה מְסִלָּה–לִשְׁאָר עַמּוֹ, אֲשֶׁר יִשָּׁאֵר מֵאַשּׁוּר: כַּאֲשֶׁר הָיְתָה לְיִשְׂרָאֵל, בְּיוֹם עֲלֹתוֹ מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרָיִם. 16 And there shall be a highway for the remnant of His people, that shall remain from Assyria, like as there was for Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

    And the harmony in the animal kingdom and man will no longer be afraid of the wild beasts, only of the raging false teaching Calvinists!

  758. I think I beat you to your passage and posting the Hebrew is a nice try for a save but to no avail. Serious people interpret the Bible and serious people disagree. When a mocker comes along it is real important for him to be smart and accurate with his mocking. You made a freshman mistake. Now either dialogue with respect or go back to selling bridges to imaginary Calvinists.

  759. MLD is a long time blogger here and a Lutheran NOT a Calvinist. I am a crazy renewal charismatic and a covenant theologian but NOT a Calvinist.

  760. Agree with BD’s #775. Why so disrespectful?

    Is this how you interpret scripture, treat those who disagree with you with mocking barbs?

    You must be great at bringing people the Good News.

  761. Just answer these questions my friend, and you will know if you’re a preterist scripture denying disciple of Calvin or a Bible believing follower of Jesus!

    1. Was Nero the anti christ?
    2. Were the prophecies of Revelation already fulfilled?
    2. Are we in the (symbolic) millennium
    3. Is Israel becoming a nation not a fulfillment of prophecy?
    4. Is God through with the nation of Israel?
    5. Is free will not involved in our salvation?
    6. Has God randomly destined some for hell?
    7. Did Jesus only die for Christians?
    8. Is the devil chained up right now?

    If you answered yes to all 7 questions you are a Preterist Scripture denying Calvinist!

  762. “you will know if you’re a preterist scripture denying disciple of Calvin or a Bible believing follower of Jesus!”

    Sorry, you’re a victim of the fallacy of false dichotomy.

  763. I have seen the results of calvinism, on many unwary new believers, it seems these Calvinists have a difficult time preaching the gospel and winning converts after all those that God has chosen are already saved, but these Calvinists have no problem infiltrating the churches and stealing God’s sheep with their vain philosophies based on man, let no one spoil you Paul warned, and this Calvinist preterist teaching is a rotting festering leaven in the body of Christ today!

  764. “this Calvinist preterist teaching is a rotting festering leaven in the body of Christ today!”

    Wow… I’ll let my reformed friends know that they’re not really saved because Hugh said so…

  765. Seriously?

    You are embarrassing. I actually do not answer yes to all your questions. Calvinism is not an eschatology though Calvinists tend to be almost anything other than pretrib premillennialists. And since you have it all sorted out there is no reason for anyone to talk to you about it.

    Nero was certainly anti-Christ though I personally would not ascribe the definite article. Revelation is mixed with both things fulfilled and things unfolding. As for your other questions well the answers from my point of view are complex and mixed. Though I am not a Calvinist you again caricature their views by your questions.

    I will answer the rest of these questions if you answer mine

    How do you KNOW that Israel on the Mediterranean is the Israel of God?

  766. Oh and BTW Hugh,

    If I was a Calvinist I would still punch you in the blog-mouth with your silliness. Your pseudo challenges to Calvinist are nothing any of the Calvinist I know would take seriously. And I can name an endless list of Calvinists who have won tens of thousands to Christ.

    They are serious brothers and members of the body of Christ and you should give honor if you want to be treated with honor. You keep making claims that are revealing of your stature.

  767. Hugh-

    Why are you here? What is your goal?

    And please stop posting scripture with the Hebrew or Greek; it’s obvious you’ve studied neither since you can’t even keep the tense straight in your run-on sentences.

    We get it, you’re a Googlogian….

  768. Night all (everyone who’s still up). I’ll let the heavy hitters take the rest of the shift.

    “Googlogian…” classic… :-)

  769. What are you talking about BD, the context was always Isaiah 11, I never made reference to Rev 5, you did, pulling a Jehovahs Witness move, instead of dealing with the passage, jumping somewhere that had nothing to do with the millennium that I was addressing, so you could try to prove your point, and your pretense at trying to be superior is typical of preterists when they can’t defend their view! Did you answer the questions? of course not, you’ll jump somewhere else. Or throw out some $5 words do you can sound oh so superior, well the Hebrew was for you, so that perhaps the original language might enlighten you!

  770. Oh did I spoil your little party, are your dirty little garments full of ulterior motives showing as you point your self righteous little finger at others and relish in their fall!

    You only want those who will tell you how smart and how right you are? Sorry that I crashed your little party!

  771. I’ll let the matter stand. Anyone can read it and see what was said. I am obviously perfectly aware of what I quoted and what you quoted as the posts show.

  772. BD, how can you say you’re not a Calvinist and yet stand idly by while they pervert the scriptures and negate the truth and promises of God, sounds like you’ve been brainwashed by 600 years of lies!

  773. You said you weren’t CC, and didn’t know B Coy, but now your motive is clear, so you’ve been lying all along…

    I guess you deemed references to lying in the Bible as Calvinist, so they don’t apply to you.

    Umm, good one.

  774. What are you talking about? No I’m not CC? When did I ever mention Bob Coy? I mentioned any fallen brother I don’t care who it is, your Pharisaical attitude is what I condemn that emanates from your self righteous hypocritical stance that shows through once again as you try to put me in your box, sorry I don’t dance your tune or fit into your little box!

  775. Hugh,

    You are working hard to put people into a mold. I plainly tell you who I am, where I am coming from and what I believe and you continue to assert that I am something other than what I claim.

    Now you complain about being put into a box. If you want to have a theological dialogue you can find one here. If you want to play silly games it will not last long. You have already repeatedly embarrassed yourself with your manner and content.

  776. Hugh said @10:31pm
    “That’s what I love about Calvinist preterists, and that is that they are consistent, in denying the literal aspects of scripture and have to do exegetical gymnastics and use pretzel logic to try to prove their conclusions that the Bible does not mean what it says, ”

    May I test you on this? I showed that everything in Rev 20:1-6 was symbolic and figurative (angels don’t have hands to carry a real chain to bind a spiritual being. The pit does not really have a padlock on it etc …) but in all that symbolism, we should take the 1,000 yrs literally?

    So here is the text. Jesus is speaking in narrative form – everything he has spoken up to this point is straight narrative, and no symbolism and no figurative speech;

    “26 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” 27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, 28 for this is my blood of the[c] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. ”

    Now, using your best effort, not to be like us and not being “consistent, in denying the literal aspects of scripture and have to do exegetical gymnastics and use pretzel logic to try to prove their conclusions that the Bible does not mean what it says,”- as you said

    At communion are you consuming the actual, real, body and blood of Jesus?

  777. BD, the content of what I’m stating cannot be denied, I have dialogued many Cavinists and when push comes to shove these are the things they believe, why are they embarrassed by these teachings, or try to deny them. Believers need to be warned at the outset that this is the pile of dung that they are buying into when they open the door to Calvin and his disciples!

  778. MLD, I think the Whittenburg door is blocking your ability to understand scripture, Jesus said, “do this in memory of me” in John 6 when he spoke to them of eating his flesh and drinking his blood, he told them after the crowds left that he was speaking to them spiritually!” He was the Passover lamb that they would be internalizing when he died on the cross for their sins! He wasn’t speaking about cannibalism or transubstantiation!

  779. And I did ask Andy and others if they could make a connection between Isaiah and the millennium? Silence. No one in the NT saying “as was said by the prophet Isaiah, when the 1,000 yrs comes.”

    In fact, the concept of an earthly reign of Christ,of any length of time is foreign to the NT. – in fact, when the idea is brought up, Jesus denies he has a reign here on earth.

    So Hugh, I think you and others twist scriptures right out of Jesus’ mouth to make a Hal Lindsey / Chuck Missler / Tim LaHaye point.

  780. Hugh, so what you are saying is that when Jesus said, “this IS my body” what he really meant was, “this is NOT my body.”

    Do I have that straight?

  781. Hey MLD, “go cut off your right hand and pluck your eye out”, When the symbolism is obvious or the context tells you that there’s a deeper or allegorical truth that’s being conveyed or the scripture is clarified by other scriptures as I showed you from John 6, then the passage is clarified, but of course if you’re a Luther follower you won’t accept that, since Luther was a catholic monk, and didn’t move away completely from the Catholic Church, and held on to some of their traditions i.e., child baptism, and now the Lord’s supper, that instead of transubstantiation it became consubstantiation or sacramental union, so Luther made a start but unfortunately didn’t go far enough which is where you are MLD

  782. I just want to be clear to many of the old timers here. I did not start the Monday discussion on baptism nor yesterday’s on end times. As I made comment on those who did, other’s jumpe in and made each a Luther discussion.

    By the same token, I like the debate … but blame others ;-)

  783. MLD

    At least you’re good for keeping a thread alive, that’s got to be worth something in the next life.

    ;)

  784. Hugh,
    You showed nother in John 6. When Jesus said “The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.” – he was not saying. “take y words and spiritualize them.”

    He was telling them that real actions in the Christian life work on your spirit.

    Back to our topic – But your logic is skewed. How pointing out all these passages that you freely spiritualize help your claim of a literal 1,000 yr earthly reign is beyond me.

    Jesus denied he was setting up a kingdom on earth and somehow you insist he was mistaken and that he actually is – you have the place, Jerusalem and you have the time period, 1,000 yrs.

    What else do you claim to know better than Jesus

  785. In other words you are fighting for a literal 1,000 yr period for a non existent kingdom.

  786. Bob,
    The Bob Coy topic has gone to seed as has this thread – so it is a good parking place for just some general conversation … it doesn’t intrude on the newer threads.

    Thank you for your readership ;-)

  787. “Bob Coy Removed For Moral Failure”

    That is still stunning.

  788. Please Note wins with best line AND most clever word! Googlogian. By the way, the dwarfs are for the dwarfs. MLD- Jesus wasn’t literal and there’s no book in your hand.

  789. #805 yeah considering that all of MIchaels info is inaccurate. 1) He RESIGNED 2) there are 600 employees NOT 1000 etc .etc. etc.

  790. Mary,

    There is are discrepancies in CCFTL’s numbers, not mine.
    He was forced to resign.
    Deal with it.

  791. No there are not. YOU are wrong. They were about 630 employees last count. Careful with that pride sir:)

  792. Want me to tell you the amount of their FPL bill?

  793. This is where the church will be tested, was it Bob Coy’s church or the Lord’s church? If it continues and endures it is God’s church and bigger than any one man to the consternation of the circling vultures of which this website is replete with!

  794. It’ll continue, it’ll just be a lot smaller taking in a lot less money than pre-“moral failure”

  795. 807 you never proved anything that you claimed which is rumoured to be false. is it possible you “source” could be wrong

  796. “For the gates of hell will not prevail against my church,” thus saith The Lord!

  797. My sources (multiple) are accurate.
    If it comforts you to think otherwise, that’s not my problem.

  798. “thou shalt not have moral failure with thy church women who aren’t thy wife”, thus sayeth The Lord!

  799. I speaketh not about Bob Coyeth, but about the living stones that compriseth the church of God, that you and your luciferian minions cannot stand against as His church marcheth triumphant!!!

  800. Hugh, you are a strange man

  801. Hahaha, I love you too!

  802. :) I think that is the only thing I have understood you say in days. lol

  803. Personally I think Hughs comments are refreshing and realistic. Michael continues to be a blogger fail, spreading innacurate information, in hopes of being a journalist/blogger while these comments help sell him ads and he continues to beg for money via paypal on here. God forbid he get a real job like the rest of us.

  804. Although the first few notes of this ‘cacophony of criticism’ were low (but, perhaps on pitch), the ‘horn blowing’ quickly turned discordant–making it difficult to distinguish the original theme. This is a muddled moshpit, and I don’t think Almighty God is into screamo. “If you love Me, keep My commandments.” The words of our witness take to the air on the wings of our works. “Repent, and live..”

  805. daughter,
    Oh Beacon of Insight
    Perhaps, if thou deemest it,
    A Blog to Enlighten the teeming masses
    in darkness lost, misled, and disillusioned
    Might See
    and hear
    Truth from on High
    Truth from on Hugh
    coming straight and unvarnished
    from He and You.

  806. I went to and loved this church. I especially loved Pastor Bob’s teaching. Nobody “handed” him the keys, he built this church. He has been instrumental in changing and saving thousands of lives, including my own. I remember him saying many times, “do not put your faith in man because man will let you down including me, put your faith in God.” He is human, I will be praying for him and his family.

  807. God bless you Ging, you are a living testimony of the power of God’s word when it is preached and taught oftentimes in spite of the faulty instruments that we can be. May The Lord continue to bless you in your growth as you discover your gifts and calling and use them for the furtherance of his kingdom, my prayers are with you and CCFL, that God would be in complete and total control as he ordains those he has called to lead in this difficult hour, for we know that God is on the throne and he never fails!

  808. […] affairs in a past year alone and has had a prolonged station ‘problem with pornography,’” wrote blogger Michael Newnham.  Newnham also wrote that Coy was taken off a house membership page for a Calvary Chapel […]

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