Apr 262014
 

istock_000015991944mediumIt’s all yours today…

  72 Responses to “Open Blogging”

  1. Warning: a long comment. After all, Michael said it was “all ours today.” These are some random thoughts triggered by frequency discussions here on this blog as well as my experiences in school and work and my life. I’ve tried to boil it down into a few paragraphs. The question is what do we KNOW, or what can we KNOW, particularly those who live in these modern, scientific times.

    God is the author of two books, the book of nature and the book of scripture.The individual believer will find his understanding and his faith strengthened by the careful reading of both. We generally derive our knowledge of the world, both what is called science and what is called faith or religion, from four sources: (1) our senses, (2) our powers of rational thought, (3) the testimony of others, written and verbal, and (4) our memory.

    This is how I view all human knowledge, religion and faith as well as the area we commonly call “science” or scientific thought. Faith is complicated and I believe it involves forces both without us and within us. It involves these four sources and more. I believe in a living God. A God who has influence on us here on earth. Faith goes beyond these four sources.

    I consider science just a careful exercise of these four sources of knowledge. Remember, many scientists are Christians and many Christians are scientists. Science isn’t evil or anti-faith. Believers must sort out the place in their lives that science fits. You can’t ignore the technical world we live in and the proof of the truth of at least some of science is in the very tool I’m writing this on or the product you are using to reading this.

    However, our senses can deceive us, our reasoning can be faulty, others can knowingly or inadvertently mislead us, and — as I can testify — with age our memories can be distorted and incomplete. None of these is 100% reliable. The ultimate source of knowledge is God. There is a fifth source to add to these four,“revelation.” The Holy Spirit can speak directly to us. This may come in prayer or during prayer or anytime of the day or night. But how to know if it is truly the Holy Spirit and not just some psychosis or imagined thing?

    The test is Scripture. That is the yardstick by which to measure revelation. One of the two books.

    What about other people’s revelations, prophesies, visions, vision casts? I immediately become skeptical when fancy words are used to describe supposed revelations, and I’m not a big believer in latter day prophets. That is my revelation. I could be wrong. I know opinion is divided on that topic.

    For me, the answer is that I have enough issues validating my personal revelations. As Ebenezer Scrooge observed, “you may be a bit of undigested beef or a spot of mustard.” I’m a natural cynic and curmudgeon, and I don’t take other’s word for revelation. Sorry, I just don’t. The prophesies in the Bible have been proven by fulfillment. I’m very cautious about modern day prophets and fortune tellers.

    I depend on prayer, personal insight, and Bible study to test all revelations. I do look to the words of others, men and women. I read commentaries and other guides from historical and contemporary sources. I learn from sermons and preachers, but my focus is on the Word. I test these man-made statements against God’s Word in the Bible, and reach my own conclusions after thoughtful prayer and meditation. Like anyone, I’m swayed by fancy presentations and people and books and ideas that are “good salesmen” and well marketed. But the ultimate test is my personal revelation firmly grounded in the Holy Bible and my senses, experience, reasoning and logic, and memory. And, at my age, I’ve got a lot of the latter, although sometimes I do forget.

    And that, ladies and gentlemen, is my two cents worth. Take it as worth two copper pennies in a world of large denominations and fifty dollar + gas tank fill-ups. Inflation has devalued any wisdom I might possess. Still it is all I have to guide me, and I lean on it heavily. Discussions on this blog are all filtered through this sieve to reach my personal belief and understanding. It has changed and shifted through the years, but I hope and pray I’m at least close enough to the actual truth that I’m not completely misguided.

  2. Wow, and here’s a first — FIRST.

  3. Got some photos up this week.
    http://derekthornton71.blogspot.com/2014/04/some-pictures-of-bit-of-everything.html

    One is an old astrophotography pic I did of the constellation Orion.

  4. How should I minister to “bronies,” guys who watch, identify with and wear pink and rainbow shirts with My Little Pony images on them?

    Or is this just ME that comes across this phenomenon?

    Stirring-the-fabulous-pot-JTK

  5. I have heard of bronies, but never come across one in real life.
    Are they actual or just an internet myth?

  6. How do the Clippers respond to the news that is sure to take the sports world by storm?? Out for a walk….

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/26/donald-sterling-racist_n_5218572.html

  7. I’m pretty certain that I’m not gifted to minister to bronies.

  8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Est3UNs-LIk&sns=em

    They’re real.
    One just came around and got saved.

    So although I feel the same way you do, Jim, I don’t really have that option.

  9. e,
    I don’t find the racist comments all that disturbing. Donald Sterling is from a different generation. What I find outrageous is that he has a 20 something girlfriend!!!

    Outrageous I say! Outrageous.

  10. I have an answer for that video’s title….No.
    Since I have never met one IRL I would have to say this is some bizarre fetish that American males have decided to adopt due to their increasing inability to grow up.
    So now they not only can continue not to grow up and be responsible due to video games.

    Sorry, I am like Jim.
    Don’t have that gift.
    If someone comes along who does, more power to you buddy, but they would just make me mad.

  11. Why is everyone tip toeing around this;
    Bronies = Perverts

    But then again, I guess we are too polite.

  12. I find it interesting.
    Everyone wants to fuss about Christianity’s supposed treatment of homosexuals and their sin.
    Truthfully, I see far more acceptance of them than one other class of sinner.

    The racist.

    If you are perceived as a racist, whether deserved or not, that is actually the sin that Christians won’t often turn a blind eye to.
    They denounce them far more loudly than any other and try to distance themselves.

    Weird, I see people always talk about the marginalized when referring to homosexuals who are actually being welcomed in society to the mainstream.
    The marginalized seems to be the racist now.
    Cast into outer darkness by both society and Christendom.

  13. BTW, e.
    That wasn’t criticizing you.
    Just some thoughts I have been having.

  14. MLD, this woman is half black and half mexican! The age thing is par for the course sadly.

  15. Derek, It was interesting seeing Chris Broussard who is African American talking about this on ESPN today. I say interesting because when there was the media storm when a gay player came into the NBA a few months ago he mentioned his Christian beliefs on the matter in an excellent way and people were calling for him to be fired. African Americans aren’t allowed to be conservative and have a Christian belief re homosexuality without the media going after them.

  16. So what should I do with this BRONY? Anyone?

    ‘Cause I don’t have any “special gifting” someone else may have.

    A formerly gay young man saved in our group was flat out ignored and treated poorly by another parachurch organization here. He eventually met a compassionate young man from our group, became a Christian, and is doing great.

    So I doubt I could treat the brony the way the former gay friend of mine was treated…..

    As Donald Rumsfeld said, “You don’t go to war with the army you want, you go to war with the army you HAVE.”

  17. ***How should I minister to “bronies,” guys who watch, identify with and wear pink and rainbow shirts with My Little Pony images on them?***

    Do bronies need to be ministered to–or need to be ministered to more than fans of any other t.v. show? I mean, the fact that a person likes My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic is not the reason someone needs to be ministered to. Rather, a person needs to be ministered to because they are separated from Christ or they are a Christian but going through a difficult time.

  18. ***Why is everyone tip toeing around this;
    Bronies = Perverts***

    Out of curiosity, what specifically is immoral about a man liking a clean, family-friendly tv show and expressing his like by wearing a t-shirt for the show?

  19. Jtk-I’m sorry. I was goofing around, and it’s obviously not a laughing matter.

    I minister to just about everyone the same way. I love them and tell them about our wonderful God.

    I was a very childish young man when God saved me. No one told me it was time to grow up, it just sort of happened as I grew to know and love Him. The Holy Spirit is really good at what He does….

  20. The marginalized seems to be the racist now.
    Cast into outer darkness by both society and Christendom.

    As well they should.

    Only a twit or a nitwit or a complete ignoramus would try and defend the evil in Mr. Bundy’s statements.

    Soon after Bundy’s views on slavery and “the Negro” came to light, the conservative supporters he had accrued began to scurry and others pounced.

    But I refuse to let Bundy’s fantasies about slavery and projections about “Negroes” be given over to predictable political squabbling. The legacy of slavery must be liberated from political commentary.

    Casual, careless and incorrect references to slavery, much like blithe references to Nazi Germany, do violence to the memory of those who endured it, or were lost to it, and to their descendants.

    There is no modern-day comparison in this country to the horrors of slavery. None! Leave it alone. Remember, honor and respect. That’s all.

    How could slaves have been “happier,” when more than 12 million were put in shackles, loaded like logs into the bowels of ships and sailed toward shores unknown, away from their world and into their hell?

  21. Derek @ 12 – that is a great point, and with the new “flexible” definitions of racism, it’s the fastest growing demographic.
    I bet if you stood on a corner with a giant sign saying “There Is No One Worse Than A Racist”, you could gather a pretty great crowd – probably get them worked up and go find a racist to tar and feather . . . or lynch.
    Racism or blasphemy of the Spirit – which is harder to define?

  22. Ah, passin through I have no idea how you extrapolated all of that out of my thoughts. No one had even mentioned Bundy till you did.
    But, I expected as much.

    Rob,
    I guarantee you could gin up a crowd like no other issue and incite violence because of it.
    Is there any other reason that when someone speaks against homosexuality that racism is inevitably compared to it?
    Everyone knows what the most horrible sin to be stained with in this country is.
    Which is exactly why they try to stain as many as possible with it.
    Now for some that may be warranted, but for many it is not.
    Is racism sufficient to shut people up?
    If someone is stained with that, whether justly or unjustly, does that warrant the abrogation of rights?
    See, I think not.
    If we were held to the standard of being completely unbigoted against all men, we would all fail.

  23. Good for Donald Sterling if he can pull a 20 something girlfriend, nothing wrong with that at all! Anyone who has issues with that, are just haters

  24. TMR.. you’re funny….

  25. Derek – fascinating that Jesse Jackson equated same sex marriage with the struggle of civil rights, then this last week some white dude environmentalist equated climate change deniers with those who opposed the abolitionist.
    So we’re adding to what is racist, or equating more things that have nothing to do with race toward that unforgivable sin. What appears to be diminishing the actual struggle of racial equality is actually a rising tide of intolerance, yet logically, equating things that are the farthest thing from grievous practices of racism must diminish that very real struggle.
    You hit the nail on the head, folks are looking for the conversational and ideological trump card, the neutron bomb of debate and discourse that just shuts up and shuts down any differing opinion. It’s why reasonable people will always defend another’s right to be wrong, speak an offensive idea and freely express intolerable thought. Because some day, my ideas will be seen as all those things, and I have never yearned for the Gulag and I wish that for no one. Everyone has a voice at the table, unless someone sets the table on fire.

  26. If you are looking for a fun read, one of my sci-fi short stories is free on Amazon this weekend. You can download ALIEN AT THE OFFICE to your computer, smart phone, or Kindle e-reader.
    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JM246LQ

  27. Derek, I liked that link @26. Neat stuff. My 5 yr old did too.

  28. Hey J.U.

    I didn’t pass over your post. I read it and pondered it. I know that no one mentioned it so I felt I should let you know I listened to you.

    ***

    Here is something to think about.

    Compared with other ancient writings the Bible has more manuscript evidence to support it than any ten pieces of classical literature combined.

    There is wealth of material supporting the Bible.

    Jews have preserved it as no other manuscript has ever been preserved.

    With their massora (parva, magna, and finalis) they kept tabs on every letter, syllable, word and paragraph.

    They had special classes of men within their culture whose sole duty was to preserve and transmit these documents with practically perfect fidelity- scribes, lawyers, massoretes.

    Who ever counted the letters and syllables and words of Plato or Aristotle? Cicero or Seneca?

    Voltaire predicted the extinction of Christianity and the Bible in a hundred years. And yet only fifty years after his death the Geneva Bible Society used his press and house to produce stacks of Bibles.

    The Bible’s enemies come and go, but the Bible remains.

    Jesus was right when He said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.”
    (Mark 13:31)

  29. 1976 Christian music.

    Ever run across Christians who try to manufacture what they think a Christian should be like? Self generating phony religious smiles and projecting home made piety.

    These guys wrote a song about such things…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV8j8YOpZqo

  30. My Little a Pony, Voltron, Transformers, Smurfs, and GI Joes were the $&@& when I was a kid. Good memories in an otherwise crappy childhood.

  31. Neo,
    Voltron, Transformers and GI Joe most definitely even the Smurfs when I was younger….but as a kid, I wouldn’t have been caught dead watching My Little Pony.

  32. Neo,Derek
    Dude had tonka toys and plenty of dirt and we were happy.

  33. A lot of my time was spent in the woods exploring or on a bike riding for miles.

  34. Wow Derek! Blind Willie is waaay cool. He probably taught Keith Richards everything he knows.

  35. Jim,

    No problem.

    It is interesting how many “metrosexual” and effeminate things younger people are involved in, while at the same time stuff like Driscoll and MH, UFC and Crossfit grow at the other end of the spectrum.

  36. If you enjoyed Dean Koontz’s book “Odd Thomas” the movie adaptation is on Netflix. My wife and I enjoyed it. Faithful to the book.

  37. Two very lengthy videos covering the history of the church and the Bible.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJNKI_79VuM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wep1KFb3wns

    I understand some might be offended, others may feel challenged. Hopefully, after the initial knee jerk reaction, there will be a thoughtful and meditative reflection upon what is being offered. And you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free.

    I too once lived under the traditions of the church fathers and its authority over the written Word of God. I knew there was a God and I knew there were men who thought themselves to be above all. But during this time, knew little about the Bible and even knew less about Jesus, the only mediator between me and the Father. I never was told that it was His blood that was shed for me and I didn’t know the difference between repentance and penance.

    Now I do and it is sola scriptura above all through the Holy Spirit that teaches, leads, convicts, and grants me all that I need to understand and to know God for who He is and who I am in Him. I am a disciple of Christ Jesus, as my Savior and my Lord. I am His child and His handmaid to do His will according to the scriptures, not that is interpreted by any man and particularly not of those that would add or take away from them, or raise themselves above any woman or child to feed their ego and pride.

  38. Anybody have a problem paying to go watch XMen 3 after the allegations came out about the director Brian Singer or is it just me?

  39. TonioC

    Can you expound on that?

  40. Ok… Looked it up in Google. Not conclusive.

    Both sides of the issue are at odds about this.

    Best to sit it out on the sidelines.

  41. Just reading on the allegations against Brian Singer. After he had finished doing the Usual Suspects, he was part of a ring of pedophiles who would lure young boys to private parties at their mansions where they would sodomize them after plying them with alcohol and drugs. Apparently the leader of these parties someone millionaire named Ralston and a former good friend of Singer’s is in prison right now for molesting young boys. BS is being sued by this young boy who is now 31, and who says he’s doing it because he doesn’t want anybody else to go through the hell he went through. There are actually pictures of Brian Singer who is admittedly homosexual posing online with young boys, and these parties where common knowledge in Hollywood. Bryan Singer would promise this young 15 year old parts in his movies if the boy submitted to his advances. It turns my stomach and makes me not want to see his movies.

  42. Sit it out on the sidelines or inside the theater after paying our money to see it, well each has to decide…some say you have to separate the art from the person, but it’s interesting that the same people that say this, will boycott Mel Gibson and his movies, but will stand up for Woody Allen, Roman Polanski and now Brian Singer!

  43. Davidsurfer51,

    Thanks for the comments. I’m currently in school. (Who knew I’d still be in a classroom at my age.) One of the classes I took was “Philosophy of Science.” That’s where I got the first four sources. However, they do have the issues I’ve described. I then thought of revelation. But that has some personal problems too. I’ve often asked the Lord for guidance, and I think I got an answer, at least some of the time. But I just don’t have confidence in others telling me what the Lord told them to tell me, if you get my drift. That’s why I study the Bible almost every day. I write the scriptures on my heart to serve as a guide to my beliefs.

    You make very good points about the Bible compared to other ancient documents. I know that recent discoveries of ancient parts of the Bible have only served to validate how authentic the version we have now is compared to the ancient originals. Obviously to me, there is the hand of God in preserving the Word. A few odd things may have crept in. For example the snake handling in Mark, but I think the current version of the Bible is about 99% true to the original sources. I know that accepted versions vary slightly between certain faith traditions, but I am convinced that the message that God intended us to have as our guide has survived in tact for our use in this twenty-first century. Jesus is the rock, and His word is the Bible — the entire Bible. Sometimes that is argued on this very blog.

    A book I read a few years ago that I liked was the “Case for Christ” by Lee Strobel. I also have his “Case for Faith,” but I haven’t read it yet. I don’t think that Christians have to give up their brains when they follow Christ. It is a faith of the heart and the mind. I rely on both. Thanks for reading my comments. I live alone and sometimes I just want to have a discussion about what I’m thinking.

  44. J.U.

    You may like a book that has been revised and updated by Josh Mcdowell. It is called The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict.

    This book is incredible in it’s research and support of the evidence for the authenticity of the Bible being the Word of Almighty God.

    Here is the best price for it that I could find just now:
    http://www.barnesandnoble.com/listing/2691637120773?r=1&cm_mmc=GooglePLA-_-Book_15To24-_-Q000000633-_-2691637120773

    I once had a conversation with Oden Fong, a Bible teacher and a personal friend i highly respect, about ‘hearing from God.’

    He told me, “David I listen to everyone because I have found that God will unexpectedly speak to me through both small and great. And I do not even want to miss it.”

    There are those that God will use to speak through to us directly at times. I like to call it the ‘high lighting’ of the Holy Spirit. One of the languages of God is this high lighting for me personally.

    For instance, one day my son and i were talking together in my vehicle. We had just mentioned a biblical topic when my son excitedly exclaims, “Dad look” as he pointed at the license plate frame of the car in front of us as we pulling up to it at a stop light.

    It was a Bible scripture that perfectly fit into our conversation. As if God were putting His stamp of approval on our conversation and confirming what we were discussing.

    The license plate frame was ‘high lighted’ by the Holy Spirit.

    Then a day or two later I turn on my radio and low and behold the voice on the radio is teaching on the very topic my son and i had been discussing.

    The school of the Holy Spirit?

    Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward.
    Matthew 10:41

    What could possibly be the reward of a prophet if I receive him as such?

    Well for one thing a prophet speaks forth the mind and heart of God to us, that is if we do not reject him in doubt but receive him in faith.

    Recall:

    And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith (or unbelief).
    Matthew 13:58

    Here Jesus is in their midst, but he couldn’t give out what he was capable of bringing to the table because they doubted him.

    When i receive a prophet, one who is capable of sharing the mind and heart of God with me, then I get the reward of what he is capable of bring to me.

    And when i reject a prophet in unbelief and doubt, then I rob myself of what I could have had from the lord through his ministry.

    1 Corinthians 12:28
    And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

    “God hath set.”

    There really are people in our midst who are prophets who we can get communication from God through, that is if we are able to receive them.

    Unfortunately it has been my own personal experience that the church does not want them around. The church only accepts pastors and teachers and evangelist.

    Even in this place I have read things from some that indicate a closed mind to what i am sharing with you now. Those people will never get a prophets reward because of their own “apisita” unbelief and doubt.

    Oden Fong told me that at times God has spoken to him through the most unlikely sources. He never discounts anyone. He weighs in the balance what is said, ever alert to the eventual “high lighting” of the Holy Spirit alerting him that God is in it.

    The problems that have arisen from some who proclaim that they are prophets or prophetic when they are certainly not is very messy. So understandably pastors and Church leadership gets jaded and wants nothing to do with such things. And throws the baby out with the bath water.

    J.U. I certainly hope you would be able to open up to what i am attempting to share with you. Ask God to illuminate these things and bring along more information to you on this wonderful experience of having god speak His mind and thoughts through another human being directly to you.

    But we all set the pace, if we reject we get nothing, if we receive in our hearts we will indeed get the reward for having done as such.

    How this is rejected or received determines the outcome doesn’t it?

  45. DS51,

    Thanks for your response. (We seem to have the blog all to ourselves today.) You don’t really have to convince me about the power of the Holy Spirit speaking to us in everyday circumstance. My main point in my original post was more a contrast between so called science and faith. Science has four sources of knowledge or input, while faith or religion has a fifth input, revelation. However, as I said, I am a bit careful about latter day prophets and try to measure their message against the Bible. It is a bit of natural cynicism and skepticism that I’ve developed over the years.

    But you are absolutely right that the Lord does speak to us sometimes through the words and actions of another person. I do seek the Lord’s illumination in all things from my Bible studies to sermons I hear and even music and hymns I hear. I think you are right that the Lord speaks to us everyday in circumstance and in the words of those we meet, even those that don’t realize they are “revelating” to us.

  46. J.U.- there’s a great resource for exploring faith and reason called ‘reasons.org’.

    They have a really nice 12 or 15 part DVD series that’s really compelling. A church I used to go to put it on, then afterwards, small groups that wanted to could use the DVDs.

    Aside from that, they have abundant resources and a pretty good website for the subject matter.

    In the end, though, to quote Kierkegaard, it does require a leap of faith.

  47. By the way, my post was just a topical add-on. When I saw the topic, I posted. It wasn’t in a direct response to anything in your posts, or seeking to be an answer or a challenge, or anything.

  48. TonioC,
    Art is art and stands or falls independent of the artist. Most of us artists, musicians, writers and poets are twits, jerks, surly, antisocial, living at extremes of societal acceptance. I think of the vices of any of us and just shake my head in wonder at how we enrich each other in spite of ourselves

  49. DS51

    Appreciate what you shared about the conversation with your son
    And Odens words to listen to the great An the small along with the highlighting of the Holy Spirit : for it brought to my remberance a day sever years back… We had been having some pretty heated debates here on the blog about wheat and the tares… Whether one can tell the difference between a wheat and a tare… ( my understanding o scripture- difficult to tell when they are small and immature ., however plainly obvious when thy grow mature and produce “fruit” )

    One warm afternoon during that season of debate; while walking with my 6 yr old (at the time)… Past mature wheat fields… I pointed out and exclaimed… Do you see those tares?

    Replying in a tenderly grandmotherly tone with wisdom far beyond her years…” Oh Mommy… Don’t you worry about those tares! Do you see how proud and tall they stand? Do you see how all the wheat are bowed over? The tares think all the wheat are bowing to them, but the wheat are bowing to God. The tares stand big and tall an they are standing for the devil and for themselves ,.. They are so selfish… But mommy, don’t you worry about the tares… God wants you to care for the wheat… To help them … And leave the tares alone, cause one day Gods gonna come and cut them all down and throw them in the fire .. But he wants us to care about the wheat.”

    That was a one day deal
    She doesn’t remember that story
    And she hasn’t expounded like that since( although still a very spiritually sensitive girl)
    Yet I’m thinking after what you shared
    That was one of those Holy Spirit highlight lessons he obviously wanted me to learn

    Tend to the wheat
    And don’t let the tares get me down
    Serve and love Gods people even though there are tares in the midst

  50. So you don’t draw a line at what anyone does in their private life, would you at murder if let’s say O.J Simpson was in a great movie, you wouldn’t have any problem sitting through it? Well even in the world they draw the line, one publisher lost her job for just trying to publish OJ Simpson’s book

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/15/business/media/15cnd-regan.html?_r=0

    Others draw the line at Mel Gibson, who can’t get a movie made anymore, because of his anti semiotic statements when he was drunk, and the perception that his movie The Passion of the Christ was also antisemitic, Jim Caviezel was also ostricized for being in the sane movie, so it seems like the world will draw the line, but Christians just seem to support it all and don’t speak out against it, because we want to be perceived as open minded and sensitive to artistic expression, how many Christians sat through Noah and thought it was a great movie not caring about the distortion of God’s word.

    And so now here we go again applauding and supporting a homosexual pedophile who has taken advantage of hundreds of boys?

  51. G!
    (I can’t see the numbers on the posts)

    What a splendid response you gave to TonioC above!

    Honestly though, while artists/ musicians etc have a seemingly very outgoing and energetic public persona… Would you say that when they are in private they have a tendancy to br withdrawn and antisocial? Just curious as to your perspective
    Thanks

  52. Loved “Noah”. Whether or not I may draw the same conclusion as a particular artist or director, if they challenged and stretched my thinking, I call that a success.

  53. Let me clarify what I specifically liked about G’s response

    ” in wonder at how we enrich each other in spite of ourselves”

  54. Neo;
    how about when they challenge and stretch your thinking as they portray the life of King David as a homosexual love story with Jonathan, will you love it then? As much as you loved Noah being portrayed as a homicidal maniac trying to murder his granddaughter, demons as trying to help humanity and being redeemable, and God destroying the world not because of man’s wickedness, but because of man eating animals and not being ecologically minded, so the distortion of scripture and God’s character doesn’t bother you? It’s no wonder these filmmakers keep blaspheming God’s word, because Christians just eat it up and applaud it, the salt has lost its savor!

  55. Baseball fans may find this interesting.
    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/23/upshot/24-upshot-baseball.html

    It is an interactive map of baseball fanbases by zipcode based on publicly available Facebook information.

  56. TonyC
    Words in my mouth, put not

    SisterC
    Hello dear friend.
    I can only speak for myself, I love individuals, and am an ambivert who’s learned when to engage and when to refresh in privacy

  57. Simple question, where do you draw the line, or do you draw the line somewhere?

  58. TonioC,
    Simple question, impossible for me to give an effective, nuanced answer because of the complexity of the arts.

    I draw my lines with people’s observable behavior, how they treat others. I don’t care if they can effectively quote scripture, if they’re in a season of their lives where they are wreaking havoc and destruction I’m willing to call them on it, but their art just might be brilliant, memorable, and enduring.

    We stand in awe of the stories of Solomon’s rebuilding of The Temple, but Solomon couldn’t keep his pants zipped, so his architecture was great but, his character? I wouldn’t want my daughter to date the guy.

    I judge art based on the elements and principles of design, music on lyrical content (if any), genre, arrangement, instrumentation, chord structure, melody, harmony, literature on storytelling prowess, character development, grammar, effectiveness of communication of the author’s intended ideas, and I do this independent of my feelings toward the behavior of the artist, because, as I said before, “Art is art and stands or falls independent of the artist.

    OJ was a great football player, a mediocre actor and a hack writer who produced hack work, so I reject his book because it was self serving and intellectually dishonest. I reject him because the overwhelming evidence is that he murdered 2 people, then went on to try to intimidate collectors with violence.

    I admire the artwork and music of John Lennon but it is widely known that he was a less than stellar father and treated Cynthia and Yoko like crap.

    Sorry for the long answer, but did I do a better job of explaining myself, regardless of whether you agree with me?

    Art stands on its own.

  59. TonyC

    Thanks for giving that synopsis of Noah … I read from a local newspaper; that movie was not
    Our fathers version of Noah and the film makers made it purely for entertainment and revenue generating purposes..

    One of the most respected Christians I know told me not to waste my time and money on it… While the cinematography was spectacular; it grossly distorted scripture…
    So …glad I didn’t

    Neo~
    How did “Noah” challenge and stretch your mind… That made the movie such a success in your view?
    Is a movie still successful if it stretches your thinking in any direction even if its the wrong direction?

    What of purity, virtue, or good report
    What value of ethic or morality did you glean from Noah that was more worthy of your finances than say perhaps some form of outreach to the community that may not only have stretched your mind… But also impacted others for the good?

    Just some questions to hopefully further stretch your thinking.
    🙂

  60. G~
    Warms my heart that you call me dear friend! It’s been quite some time; and I trust all is well with you and your loved ones!

    Ambivert… That’s perfect! I can see how that better explains the artists/musicians/writers/ performers
    Balance between engaging in public and refreshing in private…

  61. I still watch the Naked Gun movies and laugh hilariously at OJ’s Norbert character. So, throw me in jail. 🙂

  62. You did, thank you (|o)=====
    for your answer!
    Hitler to some was a great artist and if his paintings were put up for auction I have no doubt they’d fetch millions of dollars, but if you were a Jewish survivor of the holocaust or a family member of one it’s victims I’m sure you would recoil and stay away from and maybe even boycott his exhibit, no matter how good his art might be, and if Bryan Singer sexually molested 15 year old boys I would stand with the parents and the boy himself and boycott his movies, but that’s just me.

  63. Thanks TonyC,
    Yes, these choices are individual and personal.
    I will be seeing the work Singer was a part of because his work is the greater sum total of the writers, actors, SFX artists, actors and stunt persons. If the allegations against Singer are proven out then he will suffer his own consequences. The art stands on its own.

    Same goes for Donald Sterling, owner of the LA Clippers. His team and their skills are no reflection on his being a pompous racist, if the recordings released by his ex girlfriend are true. The team stands on its own.

    I also own digital images of Hitler’s art and it’s great to discuss it before telling someone who the artist was, again, because art stands on its own.

    SisterC,
    Let me be a different voice and encourage you to see Noah before it leaves the theaters, or if subsequent to that then rent it and see it on a big screen TV with a good sound system. It was never intended to be a word for word retelling of the account from Genesis, rather it is a great story on its own, very intensely thought provoking. Many aspects of the story are colored by Jewish theological discussions, which are an interesting twist to those of us who have not grown up reading rabbinical tradition.

    The movie will remain in our culture and as a follower of God I think it’s worth wrestling with and having my own answers for my friends, family and children. I found the struggle of Noah and his humanity to be fascinating, especially when he ultimately made personal choices which were ultimately counter to everything he had previously rigidly adhered to. Approach it like you would Lord of The Rings or the CS Lewis trilogy, storytelling which is thematic but takes liberties. I did that for the first 15min of the film and then I was able to enjoy it without anger. =)

    Have a great day SC

  64. If I went to the “X-Men” movie it would be to see the comic book come to life.
    My guess is that there was sin in the lives of the people that made the “Jesus” movie.
    On the other hand, my favorite artist is Jerry Lee Lewis, so high moral ground on this one is hard for me to find…
    As G said well…the art stands on it’s own.

  65. It’s what we are each affected by beit directly or indirectly. If it was your son who had been sodomized by the director, then perhaps you might feel differently about it!

  66. TonyC,

    If it had been my son, I would have shot the perp.
    I digress…
    If Singer is guilty, the legal system should deal with him to the fullest.
    That doesn’t mean we have to punish all the other people involved in the film or ignore the film itself.

  67. TonyC,
    Would you tear down all the art of western culture because many of the patrons were skillful in their depravity? It’s sad that we often have to compartmentalize. Some of the greatest preachers and christian writers have had dismal family lives, so perhaps this is an all too familiar theme and hits too close to home.

    Hey, enough about art and statues and paintings and film, Tony, have you or your family members been victimized by improper s*xual advanced or conduct? Without detail or even direct answer, this little band of people stand against victimization, with you and for you, and hope you and those who might be effected are getting comfort, strength and support.

    With love, ( |o )====:::

  68. Thanks ( |o)==== I myself when I was 17 years old was touched inappropriately by a 27-year-old man, and I had two boys when they were five and six years old sexually molested by a 25-year-old pastor, so yes it’s something that resonates with me. The 27-year-old man claimed that he was sleeping and didn’t realize his hand had landed on my private parts. The 25-year-old pastor I had him arrested and he served three years in prison

  69. TonyC,
    So very sorry and sad that you and yours have experienced this.
    You have my thoughts and prayers, and I know this community will join in supporting you.

    Yep, the movie won’t be on your list and its not for any theoretical reasons, it’s all too close to home. I cannot think of a single person who would fault you for how you feel.

    Best to you

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