Ephemera Uncategorized Add comments Apr 232013 Evangelical attitudes on immigration changing… Tim Keller links religious doubt with fornication… Rachel Held Evans responds… Rick Warren campaigns to raise awareness and lower the stigma of mental illness…. Mormon church gives up on opposing gay marriage… Donald Miller on Brennan Manning… Excellent article in CT about Manning… Cindy Jacobs saves America… When it comes to giving, evangelical Christians out-give their peers… Quit cussing… Jesus The Homeless… Loving the mentally ill in the church… Sick of hearing about your “smokin hot wife’… It’s ok to call yourself a “Christian”. Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window)Click to share on Google+ (Opens in new window)MoreClick to email this to a friend (Opens in new window)Click to print (Opens in new window)Like this:Like Loading... Related Copyright © 2013. All Rights Reserved. 44 Responses to “Ephemera” Nonnie says: April 23, 2013 at 9:34 am Miler’s article on Brennan Manning is beautiful. “The Giving Tree” has always been one of my favourite children’s books. It’s wonderful to see the connection. Josh the Baptist says: April 23, 2013 at 10:09 am Cindy Jacobs… Aye yaye yaye yuh. Shaun Sells says: April 23, 2013 at 10:35 am I can’t wait to see what Rick Warren does with mental illness longterm. He is a genius, the best when it comes to motivating people to action. Lutheran says: April 23, 2013 at 10:38 am Shaun, I agree. Yay for Rick. filbertz says: April 23, 2013 at 10:43 am I think the dis-cuss-ion on foul language was OK, but missed the verse that basically states that our mouths merely say what is in our hearts. If/when a four-lettered, colorful label or exclamation slips/bursts/mutters from my mouth, my heart/mind has spoken. To see cuss words as symptomatic rather than diagnostic is the challenge. Most object to their use rather than exploring why they’re used. covered says: April 23, 2013 at 10:49 am In 2006 my wife of 30 years went to be with Our Lord. She was my best friend and I was angry (pissed off!) at God. The following year He sent me into Sudan (Darfur) for sort of a “woodshed” moment for which now I am very grateful. During my time there, one of my staff members gave me a copy of Abba’s Child by Brennan Manning and God used that book to help me heal. On Friday after hearing of Manning’s death, I began to read All is grace. I wonder if Manning has any idea how many lives he has touched even with his departure? It is probably refreshing to him to not have to search so hard for grace and love because he will forever be in the presence of the author of grace and love. filbertz says: April 23, 2013 at 10:55 am …though I don’t think one should analyze another or assume any conclusions of why the person uses cuss words. Instead, one ought to examine their own motives/causes. Bob Sweat says: April 23, 2013 at 11:28 am Covered 🙂 Solomon Rodriguez says: April 23, 2013 at 11:36 am Sick of hearing about your “smokin hot wife’… You know those poor lil Hipster Pastors, they’re just trying to be lil Hipsters and sound cool when they say there wife is “smokin hot” They try to be hip they really do but they can’t get outta their own way. Many of them grew up sheltered and don’t realize being cool means you don’t try to be cool by saying such things, it means that you be yourself. They’re just trying to be relevant is all can’t fault them for that. Crowned1 says: April 23, 2013 at 12:35 pm “It’s okay to call yourself a ‘Christian'”. The assumption of the article is that not wanting to ‘label’ yourself a Christian suggests a disassociation from people. This may be true for some, but not true for others. I see a clear distinction between God’s church (us) and man’s church (assets/land/tax-exempt business entities). So while I am not a huge fan of what Christianity has become (man’s church)…I am still ecstatic about God’s church (us) and what He accomplishes through us. I believe in God & His Word. I am not sure that needs a label, but if it has to have one, I am not convinced Christian is the appropriate terminology in today’s society. Stigmas abound with the term…and I oftentimes find it easier to tell people what I believe than to preface it with “I’m a Christian”. Religious affiliation? I really don’t know. I do not believe God & His Word to be a religion, I believe it to be truth. It really is ‘okay’ to ‘not be a label’. You can be you, and God still knows His bride. It is another reason I refuse to be a member of man’s church. We all are the bride, I am not ‘of Paul’…I am ‘of Christ’. Solomon Rodriguez says: April 23, 2013 at 1:36 pm “It’s okay to call yourself a ‘Christian’”. The assumption of the article is that not wanting to ‘label’ yourself a Christian suggests a disassociation from people. This may be true for some, but not true for others. I see a clear distinction between God’s church (us) and man’s church (assets/land/tax-exempt business entities). So while I am not a huge fan of what Christianity has become (man’s church)…I am still ecstatic about God’s church (us) and what He accomplishes through us. I believe in God & His Word. I am not sure that needs a label, but if it has to have one, I am not convinced Christian is the appropriate terminology in today’s society. Stigmas abound with the term…and I oftentimes find it easier to tell people what I believe than to preface it with “I’m a Christian”. Religious affiliation? I really don’t know. I do not believe God & His Word to be a religion, I believe it to be truth. It really is ‘okay’ to ‘not be a label’. You can be you, and God still knows His bride. It is another reason I refuse to be a member of man’s church. We all are the bride, I am not ‘of Paul’…I am ‘of Christ’.” this^^^^^ Derek Thornton says: April 23, 2013 at 3:59 pm The first article is a good thing! I have no problem with finding a legal way for those who come here for financial reasons to stay here. That being said, I think they are rushing this thing. They are showing a tendency nowadays to pass these huge legislative bills with no one even reading them. With what happened last week, I think we need to look seriously at who we are legally letting into the country already. We can actually restrict immigration from countries and regions with bad terrorist problems while welcoming those who really want the chance to contribute and succeed. Solomon Rodriguez says: April 23, 2013 at 4:03 pm “With what happened last week, I think we need to look seriously at who we are legally letting into the country already. We can actually restrict immigration from countries and regions with bad terrorist problems while welcoming those who really want the chance to contribute and succeed.” Problem is you can use that logic to keep out Mexicans with all the drug trafficking issues there. I think that any refrom has to be across the board without preference as to where these immigrants come from. Derek Thornton says: April 23, 2013 at 4:10 pm Well, if you are convicted of drug dealing then you get a ticket back home or never get here in the first place. Restrictions mean just that. The point is that we need to discriminate as to who is actually going to be productive and contribute. Who is saying that we need more drug dealers in the country? Solomon Rodriguez says: April 23, 2013 at 4:22 pm “Well, if you are convicted of drug dealing then you get a ticket back home or never get here in the first place. Restrictions mean just that. The point is that we need to discriminate as to who is actually going to be productive and contribute. Who is saying that we need more drug dealers in the country?” My point is your comment about restricing immigration to not allow indidviduals from certain countries because of terrorism would have to include Mexicans. Refrom will never be restricted based on what country you come from, it’s called a public relations nightmare Solomon Rodriguez says: April 23, 2013 at 4:25 pm Believe me when I say that many involved in the Mexican drug trade do not look the part Derek Thornton says: April 23, 2013 at 4:34 pm No, to me it is common sense. I actually even heard someone I generally disagree with say basically the same thing yesterday. Look, I am all for letting in people who just want to work and support their family, but we have to not have policy that supports not worrying about who we let in. The fact is that, it is generally unsafe to allow people from countries or regions with bad terrorism problems to freely immigrate here without restrictions like better checks on their backgrounds. This is not discriminatory as it is the duty of government to ensure it’s existing citizens are as safe as possible. Most people from south of the border are not out to set off bombs and generally stay at war with the US. So, even if we had stricter background checks for all the other south of the border countries, I feel a lot more would pass anyways. Derek Thornton says: April 23, 2013 at 4:37 pm SolRod, my last word is there is a difference between those who actively want to destroy our civilization and drug violence. Not condoning it, but drug dealers would generally not want to mess with their source of income like that. They are out to make money, not destroy the thing that makes them money, which is the US. I just wish we could find a solution for the continuing violence in Mexico itself due to drugs. erunner says: April 23, 2013 at 5:46 pm Stressed spelled backwards is desserts. Make your own application!! 🙂 erunner says: April 23, 2013 at 6:15 pm I hope and pray God uses Rick Warren to help the fight against mental illness and the stigma that is alive and well throughout our nation. I went to the link and ended up at the What We Believe section for Saddleback. Looks fine to me. Sadly Rick has his own stigma to contend with… http://saddleback.com/aboutsaddleback/whatwebelieve/ Derek Thornton says: April 23, 2013 at 6:31 pm Hey, erunner I just saw this article on Rick Warren taking some time off. http://www.christianpost.com/news/greg-laurie-fills-in-for-rick-warren-at-saddleback-church-says-america-needs-to-turn-back-to-god-94403/ It is good to see so many people stepping up to the plate to help. mrtundraman says: April 23, 2013 at 6:49 pm Can’t wait for the ODMs to get their hands on that story. Muff Potter says: April 23, 2013 at 7:10 pm Just out of curiosity, what are ODMs? Derek Thornton says: April 23, 2013 at 7:13 pm Online Discernment Ministries Derek Thornton says: April 23, 2013 at 7:18 pm I think it consists of blogs that generally like to criticize other people’s ministries. Alex says: April 23, 2013 at 8:00 pm ” I just wish we could find a solution for the continuing violence in Mexico ” Ban guns. Oh, wait, Mexico has strict Gun Control. Wut? That can’t be right, the liberals say banning guns would solve all the problems in the US… Alex says: April 23, 2013 at 8:01 pm Actually, i should say Anti-Gun folks vs. liberals above. I have many liberal friends who are Pro Gun Rights… Alex says: April 23, 2013 at 8:03 pm Rick Warren seems like a decent guy, but who the heck knows the real him outside his close family as most celebrity pastors are a persona in public, kind of like a hologram or a movie actor vs. the real them. ( |o )====::: says: April 23, 2013 at 8:18 pm Alex, I had the opportunity of leading worship for Rick’s midweek studies a very long time ago before Saddleback got its campus. Rick is the real deal, avoids the malarkey & manipulation, is a very honorable and transparent man. He hasn’t changed and is a credit to Jesus. Alex says: April 23, 2013 at 8:19 pm The Mormons are interesting folks and an interesting Group. Their leadership is really moving on a lot of issues. They seem to learn from mistakes. They moved on race, they’ve made big strides in protecting children and teaching good parenting, and they seem to be rethinking their emphasis on homosexuality in politics. Many are very good folks who try to do the right thing. I see a lot of “good fruit” as I live among them. If Mormons are so “of the devil” then how do they exhibit so much “fruit of the spirit”? I thought the devil was the author of bad stuff and not good stuff? …i know, i know, “Mormons can’t be saved!” etc according to many on here…they don’t have the “correct Jesus” etc….yet the same folks assume that their mixed-up imperfect theology is “correct” enough and assume that those natives/aborigines/jungle folks get some sort of magic “Jesus dream” and have a shot at being saved as well…even though it is literally and factually impossible for those millions and billions of folks throughout history to have had a “correct understanding” of the “correct Jesus”… Alex says: April 23, 2013 at 8:21 pm G, that seems to be the case. It would be tough to have that kind of fame and celebrity and not be a jerk, and he seems to wear it well. Plus his reverse tithe is remarkable….even though he sells so many books he’s still rich even at 10%, but many wouldn’t give up 90% of that kind of cheese. He’s different (and good different) that’s for sure. ( |o )====::: says: April 23, 2013 at 8:21 pm Religion is like a gun. It’s fine to have one and it’s fine to be proud of it, but please don’t whip it out in public and start waving it around… (yeah, it’s redacted for a reason and best leaving it that way) 😉 erunner says: April 23, 2013 at 8:23 pm Derek, The church culture I was in for so long stressed the importance of the pastor doing the memorials for spouses or children who had died. I never thought it was important for them to show “God’s enabling” during such a difficult time so as to encourage others. Yet I can’t fault a pastor who genuinely desires and is able to do the service. In light of all that I’m fine with Rick taking this time off in light of the unspeakable grief he and his wife must be feeling. If you’re interested I put up an article yesterday Larry Taylor just wrote on the anniversary of his son’s birthday who also committed suicide It’s gut wrenchingly honest. God bless. http://morethancoping.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/larry-taylor-reflections-on-his-late-sons-birthday/ ( |o )====::: says: April 23, 2013 at 8:24 pm Alex, Thought you might get a chuckle at the religion/gun quote. It would make a great needlepoint on Pinterest Alex says: April 23, 2013 at 8:24 pm G, it’s hilarious (and has a lot of truth to it LOL 🙂 Derek Thornton says: April 23, 2013 at 8:36 pm Erunner, sobering article. I am glad Rick Warren took the time off. He needs that time off to process. Just staying busy doesn’t cut it all the time. I think sometimes we all need that, but it is increasingly hard to get in the go-go-go culture we live in. Been thinking about that lately. Hard to take that time off when you live from check to check. I have been planning to move back to MS, probably in the next few months. Gonna have to find a new job. But, my wife and I have talked and we are going to make our life a lot simpler. less dependent on that paycheck. Then, I am planning to thru-hike the Appalachian Trail. I have wanted to do that for a long time, but life is always too busy to do that seemingly. Well, I am going to stop living like a rat in a cage. Modern life has gotten to be a bit much and I think it would behoove us all to slow it down a bit and take time to smell the flowers along the trail. Sorry, I sort of digressed there. God bless. Alex says: April 23, 2013 at 10:00 pm Interesting. I agree with this… http://youtu.be/pqO5kzsKdUE It’s Jacob Prasch, who is the guy I think Jackie follows. Alex says: April 23, 2013 at 10:06 pm Prasch gives a great talk on “the seat of Moses” and the Moses Model. Seems to be more the Jesus Model. However, Paul the Apostle sure seems to example an ecclesiastical hierarchical structure and a Moses-type authority construct which is probably where Apostolic Succession came from. brian says: April 24, 2013 at 12:13 am Delurking I tried to swear I would not do this but basically almost every single aspect of Divine fiat of the scripture is based on some type of authority claim. OK I get that, we know the “Moses model” is based entirely on authority claims. We also grant that well that is stupid because people abuse authority and with out validation / check authority is often, no always abused. OK I think we agree to this. Authority claim, the Bible is the word of God, The bible is the primary / sole authority of matters dealing with faith and morals. What ever that means. We also maybe agree that our cynicism has protected us or freed us from “abusive” church environments. Can we agree much of what is discussed / disagreed with is authority claims. Personally I put little stock in claims based on authority, almost, no almost always 99.9999% such claims are wrong. Authority is an interesting concept, as often said, I speak for God listen to me or other such completely psychotic rantings. When the completely psychotic rant that I speak for God card is played my red flags go up. I have listened to the Paul Washer “sermons” about how we are all evil, from birth enemies of God. How sick is that? I mean really what kind of father creates a kid for the purpose of torturing that child in hell forever. So we agree that such hyper rhetoric is well completely stupid, ignorant, devoid of any human compassion and any deity that supported that should be rejected to its face. From day one I posted here I wanted Justice for those I worked with, I dont want to go to hell, but if God wants to He has the power (something highly priced in the apologetic community). I want to see those I worked with saved, all of them, even the apostate, which from what I have learned is all of them. I dont get it God why cause an event to send some soul to hell for some type of theological proof text. Now that is pathetic. An aside to people with chronic pain, from my perspective, the nerves fire, you exercise but your led/ arm does not work, the right eye is not as clear, you fear not being able to drive what will you do. Call on the church. Of course we agree that is not, never has been an option so you look to the secular options. Honestly if my very life required I called a faith community member to save me, I would not dial that number because true followers of Jesus, never and I do mean NEVER, need. ever. OK I spilled my gutz. can I ask a favor, you folks talk about good news, never and I mean never did I see that Good news ever. Can I make a suggestion dont call it that, because it is not for the vast majority of humanity. It has never been good news. I am now lurking again offered for what very little it is worth. Nonnie says: April 24, 2013 at 10:01 am Prasch has lots of groupies here in the UK. People follow him from place to place, trying to get another ODM high. mrtundraman says: April 24, 2013 at 5:41 pm “However, Paul the Apostle sure seems to example an ecclesiastical hierarchical structure and a Moses-type authority construct which is probably where Apostolic Succession came from.” Which is more legitimate – a church with authority handed down from the apostles from bishop to bishop or someone who hangs out their shingle on the building and appoints them self? mrtundraman says: April 24, 2013 at 5:42 pm What is the average lifespan of a Protestant denomination/church? Not all that long compared to the 2000 years of the EOC. Alex says: April 24, 2013 at 6:41 pm brian, I agree in the sense that it is only “good news” for those that 1. get the opportunity to hear it (though then they have to get the “correct” version, it is assumed they’re screwed if they heard a wrong version in some form 2. those that respond to the “correct” version and then somehow abide or show some sort of fruit etc and don’t forfeit the gospel or are regenerated (whatever that really means) and then get on the team and have diplomatic immunity. For the vast majority of humanity, it isn’t good news at all as the end-game is supposedly an eternal vacay in Fire Island. brian says: April 26, 2013 at 12:47 am You know Alex Alex, I hoped and being the good evangelical I repented of that, having hope. That is one vile filthy evil sin on cant commit, hope. Having repented of hope on my face because I know I had it coming, we all have it coming. God is eternally angry with us. He created us to be His vessel of wrath. I get the ideal God is angry with me, personally, from the foundations of the universe and even farther back. God has eternal anger for us and He will have His Holy Vengeance. I can remember several prayer services me repenting of committing such vile sins that God should wipe the floor with me. I repented of being human. God created me to hate me, personally from the very foundations of the universe. Of course we all agree such concepts are, well crazy and that is not a good day. If I was an eternal divine being I would heal all those that suffer with mental, physical, and medical illness. I would not expect glory because if I have the power I should loose it. If I have the power and not use it I am not worthy of worship. In my sinful world I would heal all those that are sick, and I would restore families of abuse and stop all war. It would be messy and non logical, but it would be right. I agree, this affirms my apostasy, a True follower of the way would long for the vengeance, the divine hatred. God stays up nights thinking of ways of getting even. My hope and this is apostate, I just want those I work with to be healed, and to have services in this imperfect world. All I want to do is good. Leave a Reply Cancel reply Your Comment You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong> Name (required) E-mail (required) URI Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email.