Time For Calvary Chapels To Drop Funding For Gospel For Asia

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82 Responses

  1. covered says:

    Isn’t Bob Caldwell also a Board Member?

  2. Michael says:

    covered,

    Not that I’m aware of…but I can’t find my list, either.
    Caldwell has shown himself to be a decent and reasonable man…I would love to talk to him if he was.

  3. Em says:

    what a reasoned and strong declaration of spiritual common sense and what a great affirmation of your perseverance, Michael

    i’m ready to move to Canada 🙂

  4. Michael says:

    Em…it’s as if the Canadian brother wrote our mission statement.

  5. A Friend says:

    I don’t think Bob Caldwell is a GFA board member, but he is a Regional Leader for Oversight with the Calvary Chapel Association.

    Damning info and evidence on GFA. Not surprised that Heitzig is a part of it.

  6. Michael says:

    Caldwell is not on the board. Just verified.

  7. A Friend says:

    Caldwell is a good dude. I’ve had face-to-face with him many times and with regards to some guy protesting him and then we had a pretty honest/blunt long meeting about my situation when I attended there for a bit.

    He’s upfront and runs a clean operation at his franchise. He also dealt reasonably with the guy that protested him. He does a lot of work in India, but I think it’s his own deal, not GFA.

  8. A Friend says:

    Time to report GFA to the State’s Attorney General’s office in Texas where they are headquartered….

  9. A Friend says:

    Gospel for Asia – 1116 St. Thomas Way – Wills Point, TX 75169

    I think Texas would have jurisdiction…though if they have other major offices in other States that might be an option as well.

  10. A Friend says:

    Send that 13 page report in the complaint, have as many folks as you can send it. The Texas Attorney General might look into it, especially if you keep the pressure on and get help from others like Throckmorton.

  11. Surfer51 says:

    Now this is what blogging is all about.

    My son and I made the observation that a certain Calvary Chapel pastor at one time had the anointing of God in his ministering.

    At some point we noticed that it had lifted from him.
    This is just one more revelation as to why.

    I seriously believe the man got a taste of the things of this world and sold out like so many others have.

    It is really sad because they all started the race well but fell by the wayside.

    God has young energetic men of God in training like Trey who will certainly carry the torch to the finish line in God honoring humility and faithfulness because of men like you Michael. Men of integrity who know not compromise and stand in Christ against the demon winds…

  12. Michael says:

    Surfer51,

    Thank you.
    I have to hide this stuff from T… he was born with an exaggerated sense of justice and the little he knows about what the old man does frustrates him enough.

    He has not yet learned the art of the measured response… 🙂

  13. Scott says:

    Wow, I wonder what Pastor Tim thinks of this?

  14. Scott says:

    Tim Brown from Fremont that is.

  15. Reuben says:

    Skip and Gayle are equal to canon. No way.

  16. Michael says:

    I started working through connections, associations and affiliations last night…this is the deepest and broadest issue we’ve ever tackled. Even more so than the CSN mess which took years to understand and report.

    My guts are telling me this is going to be a hard ride.

  17. Scott says:

    Michael, just goes to show you how easy it is for people and even so-called spiritual leaders to be duped.

    I’m with you though, once the onion starts getting peeled back to the core it will most likely reveal even more than what it initially appeared to be.

  18. Michael says:

    Scott,

    I have all sorts of mercy for people who are duped.
    However, when they refuse to believe they have been duped, or cover the fact that they have been duped so others will continue to be duped…there is no mercy.

    The silence from these guys is deafening.

  19. Scott says:

    What amazes me is that Peter Pop Off is still on the air. Folks are obviously sending him money.

    Some people are willingly duped…

  20. Joe Marino says:

    What if they haven’t done anything wrong except for refuse to answer a blogger who is using their blog as a battering ram to demand answers because of their own perception? What about the missionaries in the field this holding back of funds will leave stranded if people stop giving until it is figured out? What if after that, you find out that they did nothing wrong? What about the work? What about the Gospel? What about running to brothers in trouble instead of away from them while hurling rocks at them? How are you and the blogger who started this any better than the “discernment ministries” you often decry? I read what KP Yohannon writes at http://www.gfa.org/a-new-type-of-persecution/ and I, for one, am standing with him and am glad that some other Christians are. At a small drop of blood in the water, the Blogger Sharks start to go into their feeding frenzy until the truth is not what matters at all. This makes me very sad.

  21. Joe Marino says:

    Also, look at this: https://youtu.be/yevQDWxQVPU This looks like an answer.

  22. Em says:

    … guess Joe didn’t read the link … or else his retention level is dangerously low … but the concern for those out in the field is worthy of prayer … if sent by God, He’s looking out for them …

  23. Michael says:

    Joe,

    Have you read the linked report and the reports of the GFA Diaspora?

    We’re not the ones holding back funds…GFA has a fortune sitting in bank accounts.

    Warren and I are publishing facts…and will continue to do so.

  24. pstrmike says:

    @16
    I beg to differ……

  25. Scott says:

    Joe, did you read the letter from the Canadian Pastor Michael linked here?

    Also, the links you posted are from 2012 & 2013 respectively. A lot has transpired since then.

  26. Michael says:

    Joe,

    The truth is the only thing that matters.
    When this is all finished you can return and apologize for your insult to my character and integrity.

  27. Joe Marino says:

    So it’s ok for you to question any ministry but if I ask these questions, I am attacking your character? It has nothing to do with your character. It is the whole system. The blogging bullies are no different from the discernment ministries.

  28. Michael says:

    Joe,

    What are we to do with the reports and testimonies offered?
    Have you read them?

    Are religious celebrities more important to the kingdom than their victims?

  29. Joe Marino says:

    Michael, is that the real question? Take celebrity out of it. What is really at stake and what if you are persecuting a ministry that does not deserve it?

  30. Michael says:

    Joe,

    Answer the question.
    Have you read the reports and the testimonies?

  31. Joe Marino says:

    I have not read all of them yet. The ones that I have read leave more questions than answers. Again, take me out of the equation and ask the questions that I am asking. Should I go on a blog tirade because you are not answering my questions? What if you are wrong? What about the harm that you may be doing? What about your celebrity? Do you see where I am going with this? What if they truly are doing God’s work and have not done anything wrong? What if???

  32. Michael says:

    Joe,

    In the first place we don’t attack “any” ministry.
    We have probably spoke about 10 ministries in the 13 years we’ve been blogging.
    We’ve never been shown to be in error.
    We only speak when we have documentation and a multitude of witnesses.
    That’s biblical.
    The Gospel has never been dependent one one man, one movement, or one organization.
    If GFA answers the equations and is clearly above board we would shout it from the rooftops.
    They are easy questions to answer.

  33. covered says:

    Joe, I remember years ago thinking that Planned Parenthood was a good organization that did good things for people. There is no comparison between the atrocities of Planned Parentlhood and GFA but what do you think should be done with the testimonies and reports? Is ignoring them an option? Do you realize the collateral damage that could happen if what is being said by the blogger here at PP is false? I don’t think anyone is saying to pour gas on KP and light a match but if there’s smoke, there may be fire. I believe that it would be wise to reserve judgment either way until the truth has been revealed.

  34. covered says:

    Joe, check out the archives for how the Village Church thing started and finished. There are no blindsiding or slanderous attacks here. I think that God appoints Watchmen and people to serve at the gate for a reason.

  35. Michael says:

    Joe,

    I don’t define myself as any sort of celebrity.
    I am a target with almost no resources who is trying to speak truth to power.
    The risk is all mine.
    I believe the reports and the witnesses to corruption in GFA are compelling enough to demand answers.
    Your mileage may vary.

  36. Joe Marino says:

    Define yourself that way or not, you are what you are. You see yourself as speaking the truth to power, and that is a very intoxicating persona to take. Be careful. Think about it. Who are you to demand if you do not have some sort of power? I am not demanding anything from you, just asking questions (which you are avoiding, by the way). I am praying for you (and that is not in the condescending “I’ll pray for you”, but truly praying for you and for GFA) and hope that no matter which way this all goes, God is glorified. I pray for those in the field who will be hurt by this either way. I pray for the multitudes in Asia who have not yet accepted Christ, that if GFA is harmed or harms itself, that they not suffer.

  37. Michael says:

    what questions am I avoiding?

  38. I say it’s time to join a denomination that oversees it’s own care programs for the members of the local churches. In other words not be in junction with an organization where the owner is the founder and major personality / force in it’s existence.

    Now, in my denomination, they may be just as dirty or have the same problems, but at least I have somewhere outside of the direct organization to go to to raise questions (the Synod). The leadership of the care arm serves at the pleasure of the leadership elected by convention.

    Who outside of GFA can you go talk to?

  39. Michael says:

    MLD,

    Amen and amen.

  40. Joe Marino says:

    Questions avoided:
    What if they haven’t done anything wrong except for refuse to answer a blogger (I was referring to WT here) who is using their blog as a battering ram to demand answers because of their own perception? What about the missionaries in the field this holding back of funds will leave stranded if people stop giving until it is figured out? What if after that, you find out that they did nothing wrong? What about the work? What about the Gospel? What about running to brothers in trouble instead of away from them while hurling rocks at them? How are you and the blogger who started this any better than the “discernment ministries” you often decry? What if you are wrong? What about the harm that you may be doing? What about your celebrity? Do you see where I am going with this? What if they truly are doing God’s work and have not done anything wrong? What if???

    Michael, what if the ones who are sticking by KP and GFA because the believe in his ministry and trust him are right? When is it time to abandon a brother if you are not sure he has done anything wrong?

  41. Uriahisaliveandwell says:

    In seeking truth, there are ways that can be used without capsizing the missionaries while allegations are being investigated and if found to be true, still enable these missionaries to be protected from the harm that most likely is being done without their knowing these things are being done with funds by those leaders they were led to believe could be trusted.

    Putting the sheep and the missionary in front of the leaders to avoid accountability is cowardly, but also pretty slick stuff IMO. Using the defense: “What if you are wrong,” is like a straw man—–particularly when evidence presented thus far indicates that there is sufficient grounds to investigate and to expect clear and honest answers. Not this, turn the table on those who are rocking the boat and telling you, the boat has holes in it and we would like answers to questions that have been born out of the choices you have made concerning those who heads up this organization and as a part of the body of Christ, being supported by various entities, individually and groups.

  42. Michael says:

    Q. “What if they haven’t done anything wrong except for refuse to answer a blogger (I was referring to WT here) who is using their blog as a battering ram to demand answers because of their own perception? ”

    A. Warren is simply reporting the stories of over a hundred members of the GFA Diaspora and asking questions about obvious discrepancies between a group that claims every dollar goes to missions and their own audits. The function of the press is to inform people of truths and alert them to situations wherein questions should be raised.
    These questions should be very easy to answer if all is above board.
    The decision to stonewall Warren and others raises even more questions.

    Q. “What about the missionaries in the field this holding back of funds will leave stranded if people stop giving until it is figured out?

    A. How long should full disclosure take? Why are there massive amounts of funds sitting in bank accounts when the needs are so great…and it has been promised that every dollar goes to the field?

    Q. “What if after that, you find out that they did nothing wrong? What about the work? What about the Gospel?”

    A. If they’ve done nothing wrong and the reports are false and a hundred former missionaries are all liars, I’ll report that as well. The work is not limited to GFA and the Gospel is not dependent on them. If the reports are true and the hundred missionaries are telling the truth, then the Gospel gets yet another black eye.

    Q.”What about running to brothers in trouble instead of away from them while hurling rocks at them? ”

    A. These brothers have been contacted over and over again by both donors and pastors…and the stories don’t match.

    Q.”How are you and the blogger who started this any better than the “discernment ministries” you often decry?”

    A. We are not speculating or dividing because of theology. We are reporting and documenting that which is already available to the public.

    Q.”What if you are wrong?”

    A. Wrong for asking questions? Wrong for expecting accountability from a group that takes millions from local churches all over this country? If they are clean, we’ll run the story.

    Q. “What about the harm that you may be doing? ”

    A. I’m not doing any harm by asking questions…unless the answers would be problematic.

    Q. “What about your celebrity? ”

    A. Nobody I know perceives me as a celebrity. It would be laughable in my own circle and town. If you do, autographs are now 5.00 a piece.

    Q. Do you see where I am going with this? What if they truly are doing God’s work and have not done anything wrong? What if???

    A. Then full disclosure would show that. and I’d report it.

    Q. “Michael, what if the ones who are sticking by KP and GFA because the believe in his ministry and trust him are right? When is it time to abandon a brother if you are not sure he has done anything wrong?”

    A. I’m not speaking of abandoning anyone. I’m speaking of holding people accountable. The pastor is responsible for endorsing this group to the flock and if they are dishonest he will bear responsibility and be complicit in that fraud.

    There you go…

  43. Joe Marino says:

    Uriah, I am not defending anything. I am asking questions.

  44. Michael says:

    and now you have my answers…

  45. Hmmm, I agree with Uriah. A rare event, but when she is right, she is right.

  46. Michael says:

    So…I answer all Joes’ questions and get no response.
    I must have made too much sense.

    I just told Trey that I’m a celebrity…and much mirth ensued.

  47. Michael says:

    So far, I haven’t even risen to the stature of the dentally challenged stars of “Alaskan Bush People”.

    A prophet has no honor in his home town…

  48. Steve Wright says:

    I personally know the man in this video, my wife and I having been blessed to be a part of the very, very beginning of his ministry when he helped his first destitute street person and felt the call of God to make that his life’s ministry. We met him in 1998-1999 as a fairly young believer when he was running errands on our behalf, working with our dear friends (whose names I can’t ever post online – but whom we support at CCLE and my wife and personally for over 15 years). Now he is known in the media as “The Good Samaritan of India”

    I have told many people over the years that he is the most humble man I have ever met.

    Besides what has been reported on the GFA controversy, two things have greatly disturbed me. The first is this excuse about India culture and customs requiring things that we otherwise might find troubling in America. Frankly, that is like the heretic saying the original Greek supports his view, assuming you have no working knowledge of Greek. I assure you my friends never allow their rings to be kissed (if they even own such jewelry)

    Secondly, the notion that somehow GFA is the only group able and willing to minister to the poor in Jesus’ Name. A moment of reflection should dismiss that idea as ludicrous (it is a big country) but rest assured there are many people doing more with less.

    The reader and watched of the video can judge if either of those two comments holds water – and maybe pray about the stewardship of their resources if the Lord has put the people of India on their hearts.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biY9iAZvr48

  49. Uriahisaliveandwell says:

    Joe

    I think before you ask questions that you need to be sure you have grounds to ask them. Simply asking them to distract from an serious issue of monies being unaccounted for that which was to be used for specific purposes that it was given is not all that innocent or well intended. It causes others to feel as though they are being locked into this never-ending cat and mouse game that is used to discourage further inquiry, to take the focus off of the primary agenda, and to avoid transparency and accountability.

    It’s dishonest and enables those who needs to be held to an account to continue hiding behind the cloth and their proxies.

  50. A Friend says:

    Joe, you are an evil man for your attempts to disrupt transparency and getting at the truth. May you reap what you’ve sown.

  51. A Friend says:

    Steve W. said, “Secondly, the notion that somehow GFA is the only group able and willing to minister to the poor in Jesus’ Name. A moment of reflection should dismiss that idea as ludicrous (it is a big country) but rest assured there are many people doing more with less.”

    Agreed. Something stinks to high heaven with this one. I watched their propaganda video, total b.s. They gave non-answers and won’t be specific, huge red flags.

    “If you have nothing to hide…you have nothing to hide” as a CC pastor said at a CCSPC a couple years back.

    When a “ministry” promotes itself as the only group that can do the work of Jesus in the right way…another HUGE red flag.

    All that being said, the Diaspora and the info from Throckmorton and the testimony of the Canadian pastor is damning. This isn’t “one cyber attacker!”…you are being asked to believe that over a hundred folks are all lying in some grand conspiracy…and there sits millions of dollars unanswered for…and that’s just the money that we know about.

    Very shady. My b.s. meter blew up from red-lining.

  52. Joe Marino: There is much I could comment about but I will focus on the link to K.P. Yohannan’s description of the lawsuit against Google and Facebook. Yohannan described situation as a verdict in favor of GFA. From the article:

    I am grateful to the Lord that what was meant for evil, God used for good. After studying us, these departments determined that we were one of the most upright groups in the country, truly improving the nation. The High Court thus issued a verdict, directing networking sites to remove and stop uploading any false information about Gospel for Asia and our various ministries. In addition, the High Court also had those who posted this misinformation arrested and the material they uploaded removed.

    God Came to Our Rescue

    I thank God for His grace, mercy and answer to our prayers. He came to our rescue and defended us.

    Because you have been with us on this journey, I wanted to let you know what has transpired and give you the opportunity to hear the truth from us, especially if any of this misinformation ever caused doubt in your mind. Below are some links to articles about the verdict from the Indian High Court in Delhi.

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/hc-notice-to-google-facebook-on-churchs-plea/1037044/

    http://www.business-standard.com/generalnews/news/hc-notice-to-google-facebookchurchs-plea/84729/

    However, if you read the links in Yohannan’s story, you will see that no verdict was rendered. The links are to news articles about the filing of the suit, not the verdict. The case is still active. See this link and click on any of the links to see what has been done at various stages of discovery. http://delhihighcourt.nic.in/dhc_case_status_oj_list.asp?pno=635758.

    For instance, see this most recent action in the case: http://delhihighcourt.nic.in/dhcqrydisp_o.asp?pn=100472&yr=2015

    All the defendants have not submitted their filings. It appears that a deadline of July 30, 2015 has been set.

    Why would K.P. Yohannan boast about a verdict when the case is still active?

    Thanks for bringing this article by Yohannan to my attention. I just learned about the case yesterday.

  53. A Friend says:

    Good work Warren. Don’t let the bastards grind you down.

  54. A Friend says:

    I love the whole “we leave it to God to come to our defense!” and then they file a civil lawsuit LOL.

    Very telling….

  55. conscientious objector says:

    “God Came to Our Rescue” What god., Krishna?

  56. JonnyB says:

    Joe reminds me of the guy that tells me I am hateful if I merely quote God’s position on certain rainbow life styles.

    Most people could tell Joe hadn’t even bothered to go to the link and read everything before sounding off.

    Add to that the fact that we know one of the players in the whole deal has some prior indiscretions with a church in New Mexico.

    He may not know that, but we do.

    Joe beat on his chest with out having checked out the link to see what it is all about, he did not have all the facts.

    Made himself look like a fool to those of us who went to the link and read everything.

    Michael never brings anything here unless he has checked and cross checked his facts.

    Michael is a Journalist reporting on a story as it is unfolding.

    Joe on the other hand…most likely goes to Calvary Chapel…

    Everything at Calvary Chapel is handled with one phrase, “If you don’t like how we do things here, perhaps you should leave and start your own church.”

    Joe if you don’t like what goes on here at this blog, perhaps you should leave and go start your own blog…

  57. Joe Marino says:

    Shooting at the Saints

    It is said that when the British and French were fighting in Canada in the 1750s, Admiral Phipps, commander of the British fleet, was told to anchor outside Quebec. He was given orders to wait for the British land forces to arrive, then support them when they attacked the city. Phipps’ navy arrived early. As the admiral waited, he became annoyed by the statues of the saints that adorned the towers of a nearby cathedral, so he commanded his men to shoot at them with the ships’ cannons. No one knows how many rounds were fired or how many statues were knocked out, but when the land forces arrived and the signal was given to attack, the admiral was of no help. He had used up all his ammunition shooting at the “saints.”

    Our Daily Bread, October 6

  58. Michael says:

    Joe,

    You come on here full of full of piety and bluster, making accusations and demanding answers.
    I took the time to answer.
    Your response is some tired out daily devotional.
    That is neither honest nor helpful.
    I have treated you with respect…and I just lost all the respect I have for you.
    You might want to find somewhere else to critique people…somewhere where your own lack of Christian integrity won’t be quite so obvious.

  59. A Friend says:

    Joe, why are you shooting at fellow Christians on Michael’s blog then?

    Isn’t that what you are saying is wrong…to publicly criticize fellow believers for something you perceive is sin and wrong on their part?

    LOL, H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E

    You are doing exactly what you are saying Michael shouldn’t do. How come you don’t take your own medicine?

    …b/c you are wrong and it is actually biblical to hold other believers accountable…Jesus did it, Paul did it etc etc etc.

    What is wrong with this one is that you are creating a false issue and then you are demonstrating exactly what you are railing against…which makes you either intentionally dishonest or stupid.

    …from my history reading your stuff…I’m going with stupid.

  60. Michael says:

    I can’t believe that after all these years I still have to defend the principles of this sort of reporting.

    I’m “shooting at the saints” according to the holier ones.

    Please note that in the heart of the idolatrous critic, only those in power are the saints.

    The 100 members of the GFA Diaspora are not saints.
    The tens of thousands who may have given to the Lord under false pretenses are not saints.
    This must be so, as standing up to those who may be harming or deceiving them is considered “shooting at the saints”.

    No one except the wealthy, powerful and influential are saints to people like Joe and they must be protected at all costs.

    That is rank,stinking, idolatry.
    It is a damnable lie from the pit of hell and it smells like smoke.

    If the allegations against Gospel For Asia are true they are guilty of oppressing the people of God and fleecing them of their money in His name.

    Pick a Biblical prophet…pick any one you choose…and see what our God has to say about that.
    See what He has to say about ignoring the voices of those oppressed in favor of those with power.

    I do not have a multi million dollar organization with lawyers and public relations specialists to do my work and cover my ass.

    I have a Mac, a Bible, a smoke, a heart, and a blog.

    Those are my offerings to my God and the people He cares for despite the idolaters.
    I will use them until He takes them away.

    Period.

  61. A Friend says:

    Michael, keep up the good work.

    Don’t let the bastards grind you down.

    You’re doing exactly what you stated above…and the biblical example of prophets and apostles and Jesus and even the verses that call for all believers TO DO exactly what you are doing is very clear.

    If guys like Joe want to deny the example and precept of the bible while claiming it is “God’s word!” then so be it…they deny the bible by their actions…and the cup might be clean on the outside but it is filthy within.

    I’d rather be the hated publican with a good heart than the outward pristine Pharisee full of dead man’s bones any day…b/c I actually believe the stuff and don’t fake at it.

  62. Michael says:

    A friend,

    I’m teaching through the book of Amos in our church…it scares me and it should terrify those who refuse to lead as God would have them lead.

    God will not be mocked.

    I better get tonights study finished or I’ll have an issue myself… 🙂

  63. Em says:

    on the other hand, every Joe is an opportunity to repeat the basic, underlying heretofore unmet need to speak up – perhaps?

  64. A Friend says:

    LOL.

    Keep doing what you do Michael.

    You are a great example of a true Minister of the Gospel.

    I am saved and didn’t leave the Faith in large part b/c of your example and HOW and WHAT you did with me vs. just mere words.

    Francisco, Rolph and a few others have demonstrated the same good approach to the Gospel.

    It isn’t WORDS…talk is cheap. It isn’t Apologetic or arguing folks into Jesus…it’s Relationship. That’s where the POWER is.

    Don’t grow weary in doing good. You’re a good man doing great things.

  65. Joe Marino – Obviously, you struck a nerve. What I wonder if you are going to acknowledge that K.P. Yohannan misstated what happened with the lawsuit against Google (he said there was a verdict and the article said there was an accusation but no trial). You wanted that article to provide support for your position but instead the situation referred to by the article actually detracted from your point.

    If anything observers should be more skeptical of GFA statements based on what you shared.

  66. Michael says:

    Em,

    Perhaps.
    The only saving grace was the phone calls I got after Joe called me a celebrity… 🙂

  67. Michael says:

    Before I go…

    The good news is that I heard from another Calvary Chapel pastor last night who has cut off funding for GFA until all is answered and repented of.

    That’s what this is about…it’s not about me, or Warren or any other messenger.

    It’s about calling for righteousness…and that call is being heard.

  68. A Friend says:

    Alan Hawkins, too…he’s been a great example of living out the Gospel for years. That real-life stuff speaks louder than mere words.

  69. A Friend says:

    Warren, agreed.

    That should serve as a huge red flag against GFA…when GFA makes a false statement appealing to an article that shows their statement to be false.

    What GFA is doing is hoping that most folks are lazy and won’t actually read the stuff and just take their word for it…which unfortunately, oftentimes works b/c folks are lazy.

  70. A Friend says:

    “The good news is that I heard from another Calvary Chapel pastor last night who has cut off funding for GFA until all is answered and repented of.”

    GOOD STUFF!

    That is what it is all about. Accountability and getting at the truth of the matter and not supporting a bad organization that isn’t being a good steward of the Jesus Money.

    The Jesus Money can be given to better stewards who will use it to help further the Gospel in a transparent and accountable manner.

    There are lots of good Orgs that do it well. GFA doesn’t appear to be one of the good ones and folks should stop giving them money.

  71. Michael says:

    Back for a moment…

    I don’t want to pile on Joe…Joe is a good man who cares for his family and loves the Lord.

    He has had his own trials in the the world and the church.

    I do not wish to be his enemy.

    There is simply a false understanding in his thinking and the thinking of many others in the church that “successful” Christians and Christians organizations should be immune to rebuke and repentance.

    I cannot let that go unchallenged.

    Still, if every voice matters, even the voices of those who disagree with us matter.

    Let us move forward now with as little rancor as possible, staying on task with those who wish to travel with us.

  72. Michael says:

    A Friend,

    I will probably do a feature on the group Steve Wright has supported as an alternative for those who have a heart for India.

    Now…I have to study!

  73. Em says:

    we need to stay heads up when someone who claims to be a servant of God utters the declaration, “God has blessed me/us.” maybe He has and then again maybe not… kind of like the red flag words, “trust me” … ? ,,,
    to quote Nancy’s Ronnie, trust, but verify … good advice for the Church as well – IMHO

  74. Nathan Priddis says:

    I am seeking any donor or concerned Christian that has contacted GFA by phone or email that is willing to talk to authorities regarding their GFA conversations. If this describes you, please briefly put a summary of the subject matter, date if known and responses you received from GFA representatives in an draft email form.

    Anyone unwilling to acknowledge publicly they are willing to make a statement to authorities can contact appropriate authorities directly.

    I will also post contact info for the specific receiving agency when a criminal complaint has been filed. Please remember to be concise.

    Nathan Priddis

  75. Michael says:

    Nathan,

    It would be helpful if people knew who you were and what you plan on doing with the statements and why.

    A quick bio is probably in order…

  76. A Friend says:

    Priddis comments over at the TWW blog.

  77. Nathan Priddis says:

    @76

    Hello Michael,

    “A quick bio is probably in order…” No problem, though I don’t think there is much of a bio..

    As A Friend.@77 says, I have a couple of comments on TWW. I am a promiscuous commentor on Warren Patheos, and all comments are posted with my first and last name. Some are humor, some are parody and some not. If someone was so inclined they could piece together much of my life from comments and typos.

    I am a little more fond of the CC Movement then it appears you are, but have never been part of it. One reason I follow GFA is my belief that GFA is a threat to CC credibility, as well as numerous others groups and individuals.

    Two random examples of how I view that possible threat:
    * If the financial allegations prove true, it could only have been pulled off with willful silence, or worse, from many Christians.
    * As an outsider, I suspect we will find the G in GFA does not stand for gospel but a form of piety being sold as a superior, elevated, spiritual state.

    (“…. and what you plan on doing with the statements and why.”)
    That is pretty simple…

    Allegations that a ministry has engaged in structured transfers is an allegation of a Federal crime. The 5/19/15 Warren post is a criminal allegation.
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2015/05/19/gospel-for-asia-tells-staff-cash-carrying-is-legal-but-they-wont-do-it-anymore/

    This is of course going to result in a criminal complaint. Any statements originating from GFA or it’s associates would be included in any such complaint.

    Whether or not these allegations warrant investigation or constituted an actual crime will be the decision of Federal law-enforcement. It is however the responsibility of Christians to be subject to authorities and report incidents where they are concerned that Christians may not be following the laws.

  78. Michael says:

    Nathan,

    Thank you…and I’m glad you’re on board. 🙂

  79. Disillusioned says:

    I have to address one of Joe’s comments before we move on here:
    “Blogging bullies”
    Now this is rich. Sounds like it came from the CC playbook. A typical reaction – a bystander yells ‘fire!’ and the CCers take the hose and knock down the bystander instead of putting out the fire. I don’t know if Joe is CC, but he sure talks like he is.
    Righteousness and justice are the foundations of God’s throne, and those who are concerned with such have nothing to fear from the truth. If GFA is innocent of wrongdoing, they should be eager to bring everything into the light.
    I have close friends who recently escaped from under KP’s ‘righteous’ thumb, and have heard first- hand accounts of his spiritual abuse.
    I just hate the bluster that comes with ignorance, Joe. You’d best catch up here.

  80. openeyes says:

    This site, Dr. Throckmorton and Pastor from Canada are all right. I know many Christian Indians and they are in totally agreement with Pastor’s statements in his letter. Many people in Kerala confirm KP has had problems since the 90’s and it is not due to Christian Persecution. His dealings in India are questionable. I would suggest that all donations be stopped until there is a complete third party audit and investigation into GFA. You all have no idea where the money is going in India. Once it leaves America there is no responsibility on GFA or it’s accountants at that point according to American law. It may be legal but it is not ethical. I am in total agreement with all three men trying to open the eyes of American donors. Many Indians are also applauding their efforts. They are doing you a great service in investigating this!!! These three men are trying to provide accountability. Their questions should get a direct answer and the books of GFA should have an open and independent audit comparing the info with the Indian government. If GFA has nothing to hide they will welcome the opportunity to clear their name.

    http://www.tehelka.com/2015/06/kerala-gospel-of-asia-believers-church-k-p-yohannan-govt-takes-over-land/?singlepage=1

  81. openeyes says:

    Forgive me for posting so much. I am really ripped about this whole thing. I know Americans that donate to this guy and I know many Indians in India that tell me he is corrupt. Most Indians are scared to speak up.

    One sincere Indian believer wrote this to me after I forwarded WT blog and this one to them.
    If a persons Character becomes suspect why bother about reputation?

    Another wrote this to me.
    What a contrast to Philippians 2:7 …. we need more true servants than leaders who need to pad up their reputation.

    Lastly I got this one.
    Missions sadly is one of the money minting busineses of some of the Indian Christians. Funding and fund management is the biggest area of corruption and misappropriation in missions in India. I for one strongly advocate of indigenous missions which are self sufficient and not dependent on foreign funds. I know many such organisations doing good and sincere work unlike the extravagantly lavish GFA.

    Do you think these are stupid and uninformed Christian Indian men? They live here year around. They are not like American GFA workers that stop in for a visit for a short while and don’t know the language nor customs.

    While Mike is so concerned about the American side why not look at the view from the Indian side and the great harm being done there? According to GFA site they pay a Gospel minister roughly RS 2000 a month. No worker, even in a village, can support a family on that money. They are forced to take work from other organizations in order to provide food, schooling for kids (it is not free here.) and a roof over their head. Yet the leader does not live a bad life in the States nor when he comes to India. If GFA is not going to be around then other organizations will absorb them or even Indians will step up to the plate in their support. The latter might even be a better thing than what GFA is doing. There are many, many foreign organizations working in India. Not everything revolves around America.

    This blog, WT and the Pastor from Canada are not the only ones asking questions. The Indian government has been trying to investigate KP for years and are getting blocked. You see, millions of dollars goes a long way in India. It brings in loads of connections and influence in these parts. So do you think that this blog, WT, Pastor from Canada, the GFA ex-workers AND the Indian government are all wrong about Yohannan? They all are anti-Christian and working against believers in India including Yohannan?

    If Christian persecution is so bad in India then why is GFA building large buildings, starting businesses, orphanages, churches, getting his name in the Indian papers at every turn, getting involved in court cases and generally saying to the Indian government and every supposed anti-Christian outfit HERE WE ALL ARE. Don’t you think he would be more cautious in carrying out his work rather than making headlines in the newspapers? Would not KP and his staff be concerned for their own safety and that of their families if persecution was that bad in India? He basically has put a bulls eye on his back and everyone associated with him with little worry about personal safety in my humble opinion. So are we talking about real Christian persecution in India concerning KP or is it that people here just don’t like the way he operates and they are trying to expose that? If he is not operating ethically then do you really think that is a good witness for Jesus Christ in India? If he is not operating ethically do you really thing it is a good witness for Americans to go along with it? Do you ever wonder why non-believers in India are so suspicious of Indian believers who carry American money??!!

    I don’t know any foreign ministry that operates like Yohannan. They have to have accountability in the States and accountability in India. Their boards demand both sources match. They are an open book with donors. They willingly answer questions from their boards.Some organizations have audits in America and India to present to their boards. So not everyone operates like GFA and yet they are quite successful at what they do. If you have a problem with everyone else in India going by the book, being open and transparent then I don’t what to tell you. Surely as an American you would want the Indian people to think we Christians are upright, honest and ethical people? If we don’t take a stand in a place that is fraught with corruption and we go along with anything without question then we Christian Americans have lost our salt overseas. They will take our money and that is about all they will want from us. That will be the extent of Christian American influence.

    Thank you for letting me rant here.

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