Oct 292015
 

Francis-Chan-Podium“Hear me clearly in this, because it is vital—in fact, there is nothing more important or eternal: Are you willing to say to God that He can have whatever He wants? Do you believe that wholehearted commitment to Him is more important than any other thing or person in your life? Do you know that nothing you do in this life will ever matter, unless it is about loving God and loving the people He has made? If the answer to those questions is yes, then let your bet match your talk. True faith means holding nothing back; it bets everything on the hope of eternity.”

Chan, Francis (2010-01-01). Crazy Love: Overwhelmed by a Relentless God (p. 95). David C Cook. Kindle Edition.

Some time late last night or early this morning when the ashtray was full and the coffee pot drained, it hit me.

We’re losing the information war against Gospel For Asia.

“We” meaning Warren Throckmorton, myself, and some other bloggers because the “Christian” media did it’s thing (begrudgingly) and left the bloggers to tilt at the windmill.

All night long as I checked Facebook to follow another story, the ads would pop up on my timeline.

Ads purchased by Gospel for Asia that were seen on millions more screens than any of our articles.

I can’t buy that kind of exposure.

I’m a nobody.

The only way the whole story would get the exposure it needs to put a dent in this operation is if a somebody cared enough to stand with us.

The only somebody qualified in this case is Francis Chan.

Chan become a celebrity by advocating a “radical” form of self sacrificial Christianity.

The book I quoted above sold millions.

He took “lukewarm” Christians and Christianity to the woodshed and striped them with many blows.

He was right more often than erring to do so.

Today, he sits on the board of Gospel For Asia… he says he loves his friend K.P. Yohannan.

I have an inbox full of email from people who don’t.

These are not disgruntled former employees (though I believe them too).

These are people who heard Christ’s call to self sacrificial Christianity before Chan was ever heard of…or even born in some cases.

They have given their lives to the cause of Christ in a land not their home…and have suffered from the political and ecclesiastical machinations of Gospel For Asia.

They suffer in silence from the American love of celebrity and ignorance of India.

I have not even spoken of the thousands of donors here who have given sacrificially.

Chan could make a difference for all of us.

The question before the house (and him) now is how much does Francis Chan believe his own words?

What is he willing to give up in this situation to love God and His people who are being hurt?

Perhaps he will offer the victims of this debacle some real “crazy love” and stand with them.

Time to go all in, Francis…or you’re all talk too.

phoenixpreacher@gmail.com

 

  62 Responses to “Chan Hedging His Bets…”

  1. Maybe in Francis Chan’s world, “going all in” means standing by an old friend, a fallen old friend maybe, in the face of criticism. Maybe he is trying to pull KP out of the fire and doesn’t mind getting a little singed in the process.

  2. Xenia,

    That is the theory of Chans supporters.

    It would seem to me that one could stand up for truth and righteousness and still stand by a friend.

    The positions are not mutually exclusive.

  3. Who knows what Frances Chan* is doing or saying outside the eyes and ears of social media. It may be that God is using this man as an instrument of reconciliation and repentance, which is the goal.

    *I don’t know beans about Francis Chan, other than that he preaches self-sacrifice. Maybe we should assume that is what he is doing. Plenty of voices have denounced KP from the roof-tops; maybe God is reserving one man to do something else for the sake of KP’s soul.

  4. was going to comment on the elitism of the church today, but there are those better qualified to do so … suffice it to say that these elites send a chill up my spine

  5. If I had been caught in a grievous sin and all my friends (rightfully) abandoned me and shouted my sins from the roof tops I would appreciate the one friend who, while acknowledging my sins, still loves me and doesn’t tell the world all my faults but walks along side me towards towards repentance.

  6. If I had been caught in a grievous sin and all my friends (rightfully) abandoned me and shouted my sins from the roof tops I would appreciate the one friend who, while acknowledging my sins, still loves me and doesn’t tell the world all my faults but walks along side me towards towards repentance.

    And if that friend is criticized for sticking by me I would say he is practicing self-sacrificing love on my behalf. He could chastise me on social media, just like everyone else has, and it would be his right, but maybe this friend is willing to take the heat for my sake.

  7. Sorry for the repeat. My posts aren’t posting correctly.

  8. Xenia,

    I hear what you’re saying.
    The problem is that even this morning Yohannan threatened people who were serving the Lord sacrificially.

    They have no voice.

    Chan can be a voice for them and a friend to Yohannan as well.

    What will probably happen here is that the story will fade away, no repentance will come, and when the heat is off a lot of innocent people will pay for speaking at all.

    Yohannan will continue his tyranny with the support of American donors who have no clue.

  9. The positions are not mutually exclusive.<<<

    In some situations, they may be.

  10. even this morning Yohannan threatened people<<<

    He's a hard case.

    Michael, have you ever been in a situation where you messed up and everyone you knew was against you but one person refused to join the bashing and stood by you? When it came time to repent, who did you listen to, the mob or the friend?

  11. @Xenia,

    Francis Chan is pretty adamant about not being on social media (FB, Instagram, and Twitter). He has publicly stated this before.

    I’m sure he reads the articles though, and I am positive he is aware of the situation. Heck he might be reading this blog right now!

    I’ve listened to him preach quite a bit. He has spoken quite powerfully into the lives of so many young believers through Passion Conferences and other venues.

    Of course people are not what they are always cracked up to be, and I don’t want to idolize him. But I think he is one of the few voices in “Celebrity Christianity” right now who is telling the truth about the dangers of being a leader who accumulates followers.

    He is also one of the few out there with a significant platform advocating for transparency and a different way of doing church.

    Who knows for sure……..But I have a feeling that Francis (being fairly close to KP), is speaking into his life one on one. I’m not sure we will hear a public statement from Francis (and I’m not sure we should?), but I tend to believe that Francis is speaking the truth with love and reconcilation.

    I have a feeling quite a bit is going on behind the scenes.

    Will see what happens.

  12. Seraphim, yep.

    God cares for those who have been harmed by GFA but let’s not forget that God loves KP, too, and may have set plans in motion to recover this lost sheep, plans that don’t involve Twitter.

  13. While Chan (and the 3 what-have-yous) is silent on GFA, GFA has not been silent.

    They are framing the narrative they want to be presented: they are suffering for the Gospel. Sure, they may have made a mistake here or there, but nothing malicious on their part. They wanted to work with ECFA, but they at the ECFA didn’t want to give them a break. And those people who are saying bad things about us are “bitter”.

    That’s their story and more than likely will stick to it, because no one in a position to speak cares enough to speak the truth.

  14. Xenia,

    In my personal life I have people that I have put myself under accountability to.
    They are very strong personalities to match my own.
    They would stand with me…but they would also demand that I take responsibility for my words or actions.
    This would be especially true if I had affected a number of people negatively.

  15. Papias,

    That’s how I see it too…

  16. Chan is a member of the board of directors…his responsibilities as a steward extend far beyond his friendship with Yohannan to the donors and employees of the charity.

  17. If this were any public corporation that had three members of its board leave without giving statements as to why, the remaining board members would be hearing about it from key shareholders. Some shareholders in corporate America would be calling for investigations and perhaps a vote for new board members.

    “But this is a ministry”.

    Right. Even more of a reason for transparency.

  18. I agree with Michael @16–as a board member, he is obligated to take a broader view for the benefit of the entire ministry and its workers, present and past, its donors, and those it hopes to reach. YP, even as a leader, should answer to the board. Being a friend, confidant, and brother is not mutually exclusive to being a board member, but those roles have different demands and expectations. This issue has touched many different ‘boards’ which are stocked with friends of the leader who rubber stamp his every move.

  19. but they would also demand that I take responsibility for my words or actions.<<<

    Maybe he is.

    Well, since we don't know what's going on behind the scenes, no point speculating further.

  20. what we can concern ourselves with – meaning the whole of the church in the United States today – is the question of fence straddling – by that i mean fulfilling a modern organizational role with its protocols that conflict with being a member of the body of Christ – just who is my family? my brother? am i being discreet? practicing grace or applying a whitewash?
    we live in a time that is very, very different from 2,000 years ago – not easy to navigate but the rules haven’t changed, have they?

  21. I can certainly see Xenia’s sentiment here. If Chan was just a friend, then I might agree with her. But then he was a friend who had previously publicly endorsed GFA. When he found out otherwise about GFA, I think there is a good case that there is then an additional obligatory impetus to give reason to why he pulled his endorsements, rather than just having the endorsements disappear without explanation. But beyond this, I believe Chan now has an even much greater obligation to say something because of his position on the board. By taking that position, he was formally, and morally, taking on a responsibility that extended much greater and wider than just a friendship to K.P. He was now obliged to look out not only for K.P., but the entire organization of GFA which includes every employee there within and also every donor. By his own choices, I believe his moral and spiritual responsibilities extend far beyond than just K.P.

  22. I hope Chan is helping KP in his walk with God, but based on the letter KP just sent to CC pastors, KP is not listening.

  23. The question is what obligation does one have before the Lord when people are still writing checks that could quite possibly and likely be used for good elsewhere – all because they are ignorant of any controversy.

    Besides CC pastors who already know the news, is KP writing the same letter to all his donors, every last little widow in Nebraska sending her $10 and telling them that ECFA pulled their endorsement and Board members are resigning as a result. How is she going to hear if he does not. Maybe Chan is demanding such a letter behind the scenes but if they have time to get one to the CC pastors, they could get one in the mail to the massive donor list too.

    That’s where this is different than the guy caught in adultery or some other “grievous” sin who has a friend who sticks close by.

  24. Dear Xenia,

    Where were you the other day when I was getting hogtied for asking for grace towards Damian Kyle? 🙂 Your comments here today are a breath of fresh air and bring a much needed perspective.

    I am just going to say this. Most here are angry and ticked off big time. On a human level I get that. But, from God’s perspective it’s fine line. “Be angry and sin not.”

    If there is no immediate vindication against KP and all of CC, then all hell is going to break loose and has been breaking loose…on this blog.

    But without true, unhindered, holy prayer and asking and letting God do the work of conviction, repentance and ultimately restoration, then all the blogging in the world will not bring anyone the satisfaction of making a ‘wrong’ a ‘right’. You’re just peeing into a fan.

    Yes people have been stumbled, raked, hurt, marginalized over the hurtful actions of leadership in CC and GFA. But so have other denominations and churches done the same. But we are powerless to affect godly change without the help by the Spirit of God. God cannot bless or use the tool of the flesh. We war not against flesh and blood…

    So maybe, just maybe, God is not allowing the bloggers to win the ‘information war’, because he cannot use angry, sarcastic (Pastor Al?) and unforgiving hearts to bring the much needed change of repentance. The arm of the flesh will only make it worse.

    Yesterday, Michael called K.P. a “wicked devil”. He is not a devil. He is a man who at one time was much used to affect millions for the cause of Christ. Jesus warned us about even calling another person a “fool”, that using even that word could cause us to be thrown into hell.

    K.P. is fallen, but we want to stone him & vilify him until he pays. And how. However, God wants his heart aright and restored to Himself.

    You may not love K.P. but please don’t offend God by implying that KP is a devil. God can speak for Himself. As a child of God, don’t think KP a devil if God is love. KP is not out of the reach of God’s mercy and love. K.P. is redeemable. You’re just going to push KP farther away with your anger.

    May love win the war. May the love and mercy of God that saved US from sin and rebellion and hurting others be the same love that binds us all as the Body of Christ together. The Christian’s true war is against Satan, who is our true adversary, the prince of darkness, not those who are on our side who have fallen. (May we someday pull on the same side of the rope for the cause of Christ.)

    Francis Chan is not your answer to the GFA problem. God is the answer to the GFA problem. God doesn’t need our help to fight injustice. He will use those whose hearts are right with him to use to bring the needed changes. Like a Nathan to David. Like a Samuel to Saul. Jesus restored Peter to Himself. He asks us to pray for our enemies. He commands us to love our enemies. Not call them names.

    My heart is deeply grieved over how Satan has gained a foothold inside the Church. Take heed to your hearts.

  25. You’re right about the ads. I am part of a homeschooling products email list, and GFA sponsored a message to the list. The woman running the list had no idea about the ECFA canning or other issues until two of us notified her, and she won’t run a promotion with GFA again, but the damage is done, and that is only one list in a vast Internet.

  26. TP,
    God uses means and the means are usually people.
    You’ve made a name now criticizing me and demeaning fighting on behalf of people with no voice .
    I hope it makes you feel holy…

  27. #24 – “I am just going to say this. Most here are angry and ticked off big time.”

    a comment that is so far from what i read here that i can just brush past it as i read…

    Most here are jealous for the good name of their Father and the well being of His children.

  28. #24 – “You’re just peeing into a fan.” you do realize that would electrocute you? 🙂

  29. This entire scandal makes me wonder about the value of a missions organization. I’m all for missions but do we really need this organization? I’m praying that Chan may eventually speak out. I’m hoping the reason for the wait is for him to seek God and not be hasty with his remarks.

  30. I simply want the abuse of donors and workers to stop today .
    That’s what I want.
    We can deal with all the holy stuff when people are safe.
    TP has my phone number and he’s used it when it suited him.
    It has suited him to forgo that conversation and go after me here.
    He might want to lose that number.

  31. Coming back here was a mistake.

  32. I don’t ‘feel’ holy at all here at this time. Go ahead and attack me for sharing my view. It isn’t any bigger or smaller than yours or anyone else’s…Xenia’s comments struck a chord with me. “I hope it makes you feel holy.” Really Michael? Funny.

    I have not ‘made a name’ for myself at all. That is not my objective in the least. I am not demeaning your fight.

    Why not have a weekly PP thread dedicated to praying for GFA and for it’s victims as you do for Pastor Saeed each Wednesday? Why allow the bombastic comments to dominate and defile the bigger cause?

    I love you Michael. I am not against you. I am for you and I am praying for you.

  33. So help me understand . Are some suggesting here that if we find out a brother/ friend is a liar and a thief it is a virtuous thing to let them continue lying to and stealing from others while we stick by them -maybe tell them they’re wrong and wait/trust for God to bring them around to making things right? If that’s the case my mind is totally now boggled beyond belief.

  34. my # 27’s “can should have been a “can’t”

    i see nothing wrong with praying for KP – i am convinced that we have unsung prayer warriors covering the mission fields and the laborers there …

    i respect the man who stands, who sticks his neck out and resists when he sees the work of the devil. Would a shepherd, watching a wolf gnaw on one of the sheep, say, “i’ve spoken to the wolf privately and told him not to do that – i’m hoping he’ll come around.”

    God is immutable and His love always is in agreement with His holiness. It is much easier to lecture on love than it is on holiness. Remember that mercy is paired with goodness… some like to say that grace is unlimited, i’m not so sure…

  35. yeah, what Anne said 🙂

  36. #24. By the way TP, KP is a son of the Devil. If terms like that are good enough for the likes of the Apostle Paul, John the Baptist and the Holy Man himself: Jesus, they are good enough for me. Acts 13:10, John 8:44, and Luke 3:7. What else are you going to call a man who robs from the poor staving Dalits of India and uses the money to build for-profit schools that earn a reported 25% return on investment each year? This man is a true snake. Can hell burn hot enough for the likes such as this?

  37. Xenia, your coming back here was not a mistake … what needs to be said, needs to be said and sometimes you provide the course correction

    God keep

  38. I apologize for not personally calling you. Didn’t cross my mind. I took this as an open discussion. I don’t feel like I am going after you. I am trying to offer another perspective. I am trying to help you.

    A man I love and respect, Damian Kyle, was vilified for coming on the GFA board (for a VERY short time- 1-2 months?) trying to help his friend in a looming crisis and resigned when he himself saw the truth obviously.

    I tried to offer another perspective and got raked. Normal fare for any CC pastor on the PP.

    I’m not part and parcel to calling fellow believers names. I respect you in wanting to fight for the ‘voiceless’ but they aren’t powerless. God is on their side. Who doesn’t want the abuse to stop today? Everyone does. It’s bigger than any of us. It hurts so much.

    So, I’ll bow out, take the coming hits coming my way, and pray for you all. Peace.

  39. “Francis Chan is not your answer to the GFA problem. God is the answer to the GFA problem. God doesn’t need our help to fight injustice. He will use those whose hearts are right with him to use to bring the needed changes. Like a Nathan to David. Like a Samuel to Saul. Jesus restored Peter to Himself. He asks us to pray for our enemies. He commands us to love our enemies. Not call them names.”

    Wow. That’s a bit slanted, isn’t it? You appear to be a thoughtful person, I would have thought that you think better than this.
    In truth, God does not need our help…… with anything, but God choses to use people. Your own examples bear that out. Jesus is not here in the flesh to restore GFA to Himself, and more importantly, ir must be noted that Peter was repentant! I haven’t seen any of that from anyone associated with the leadership of GFA. The “we’ve dealt with that “ line that has been given to some really is a bit short of repentance. Secondly, Paul called people out, particularly leaders when they went astray. He didn’t just pray and say nothing, I believe he prayed and spoke up and addressed they sin.

  40. #38. If KP is a believer, then my brother is President of the US. (He is not.) As a pastor, you should know that there are false brothers, tares, etc. If we cannot question someone as obvious as “His Eminence” then who can we question? If it talks and acts like a duck, it is a duck. KP has been abusing and lying for decades. This is well documented. What other “proof” do we need? Indians are worshiping Him like a God by their comments left on Warren’s blog. No real Christian would allow this. Satan, on the other hand, will encourage it and feed it just as KP clearly has. I do not use “Son of the Devil” lightly. It definitely is appropriate though in this one case.

  41. If I come home one day and I find a man in my house raping my wife, I am going to take every action possible to put an end to it. I am not going to sit back and say I am going to leave it to the Lord.

    Now, this is obviously an extreme example, but the principles are the same. There have been more than 100 former staff, probably a significant amount of current staff, even a greater amount of donors (knowing and unknowing), and who knows how many in India who are ministering with GFA or supposedly being ministered to by GFA who have been harmed by K.P. and GFA. It is the moral and spiritual responsibility of those in the know to try to put a stop to it. If it was a simple as a few close friends working with K.P. and others praying for him that would bring about a sudden and real repentance and an end to all the significant wrongdoing that would be great. Obviously that hasn’t happened and so it is obligatory that more action be taken to try to protect the innocent from continuing to be harmed. Can we put to rest the notion of just “leaving it to the Lord”? Yes, our ultimate hope and trust is in Him. That does not mean that we just sit back and wait for a purely supernatural move of God without the involvement of any other human action. If I am dangerously sick, I will pray to God to make me better, but I’m also going to the doctor.

    And so maybe argument can be made that some of the details of the actions being taken to stop the harm of K.P. and GFA are not totally pure. But I would much rather see someone imperfectly trying to put an end to evil and protect the innocent than one who knows wrong is going on and will pray about it but won’t lift a finger to do anything else about it. Or one who will try to talk the perpetrator into stopping their evil, and when it doesn’t stop, doesn’t do anything else to try to protect the victims besides continuing to talk to the evildoer.

  42. This type of anger is called righteous indignation. We are to expose evil, warn others and protect one another. Friendship ought not make us blind or a respector of person to minimize the gravity of harm that has and is being perpetrated by anyone that even had anwhiff or were made aware or have raim silent or have tried to shame or guilt others for speaking their piece and then use Satan as means to defect away from what everyone of shoud taking I stand, speaking our mindmine while bearing a righteous indignation for what has been brought into the body of Christ and now being enabled by those who could speak up but don’t then have friends come on here and give excuses to minimize what has yet needs to be said and to be done by those who knew or even have a hint. prayer is good and we aren’t to all make sure our hearts are right and then after this we are to take up the full armor Oh God and expose this evil and commit ourselves not to tolerate it here or in any other church body or congregation or ministry or anywhere else where we claim to be in Christ.

  43. TP it is my impression that you would like to clear your friend Damian from having to be held to an account as a board memberwhen KP.you have argued that because he wants in this role for a short one to two months, as well asbattling cancer, if I remember correctly. when for bloggers on this site fail to take heart and back off from him, you then sought to convince us that we trust in the Lord and back off from the entire situation.at the same time, you came across as if you saw yourself being victimized by those who house responded to your comment without giving an inch in your class on behalf of Damien. you forget Scripturean I do believe that is this wasn’t your friend , only you know so well, that you would not be so protective and defensive, while disobeying what we have been taught in term of tolerating such behavior by those who made the choice to serve in a position that required integrity, responsibility, and good stewardship of what God’s people we’re being led to believe but in fact per documents has evidence something entirely contrary and in opposition to what they were being led to believe.

  44. I am very intolerant myself of what is happening at GFA and have taken every step to dis-associate and protect my flock from them. My mention of Damian is to make you think. Who here knows personally how responsible he is in this? (With proof.) How complicit? How many in this room know Damian and his character? Have many here have read the GFA board minutes or were present at a GFA board meeting? Know the definitive backstory? If your answer is “I don’t know,” then stop painting your prognostication and narrative. Leave the insults and adjectives out. You don’t know. You may be accusing an innocent man with pure motives. I for one in good conscience cannot call KP a “devil”. He sinned big time. He seems authoritarian and uncaring and arrogant. He has trampled over brothers and sisters at GFA who served with all their heart only to be written off. He oversaw an unhealthy culture of control. I can call Hitler evil. I can say ISIS is evil. I cannot say for certainty that KP is unsaved. If you can, good for you. You are better than I. Only God knows for sure. This is a blog. So we’re all experts. Blah blah blah. All I know for sure is that there is a trail of unaccountability, hurt people, misappropriation of funds, silence from GFA until yesterday, and not much else. I have at least as much or maybe more righteous indignation (Mr. Uriah) over this than others because I have been betrayed by a ministry I believed in and supported for years and am grieved by their sin. I have called and talked to their heads and wrote KP myself, (and he wrote me back promising a phone call I have yet to receive) so I did not sit on my fanny and do nothing. I rebuked them and let my voice be heard. So stop attacking another guy’s viewpoint and get off your butt and pray for repentance and a process of restitution to those affected. Do what Jesus would have you do. I am done here. So now I gave you more fodder to talk about for the next day. Pick it apart and analyze every word. That’s what we do here. Meanwhile in Texas…

  45. Damian Kyle was not “vilified” for joining or resigning from the board.
    He was criticized for not informing people why he did so (along with the other two) thus robbing the people of God of knowledge that may prevent abuse.

    In my mind if I fail to warn someone of a present danger, I am responsible for the harm that comes to them whether I directly harm them or not.

    If I can possibly prevent someone from being harmed, my job is to do that which will protect them, not stop and pray that someone else does.

    I will continue to do what I think is right no matter how many friends and readers I lose.
    My conscience will allow no less.

    God may well want to bring K.P. to repentance.
    It seems that many have tried already to do so.

    I will bless God if He so wills such, but I will not stand by and pray when lives are being ruined and the people of God who are my brothers and sisters are in danger of harm.

    Others may do as their conscience guides them.

    These stories take a toll…they are not without cost to me.
    The cost is worth it if we keep some out of harms way.

  46. TP,

    You are welcome to keep posting.
    I rarely censor the loyal opposition.

    I will respond as needed.

  47. No one who has kept their eye on Chan can say that he’s all talk. To me, his life choices speak louder than his sermons or books.

    I don’t understand his silence on GFA, but he has clearly been running from success for years, and is not a hireling. I need to put this on my mystery shelf.

  48. I tend to want to agree with Xenia – Chan’s got to have a plan on something going on behind the scenes that no one knows about. It would go against everything known about him for there not to be this. But I’ve got to agree with Michael that its disconcerting that all people here is “crickets”. If this was simply organizational struggles and growing pains and unfortunate but minor mistakes there would be no need for anything else to be known but with the gravity of what’s gone on (outlined on GFA Diaspora which lead to looking into deep and troubling financial irregularities which is now leading to stories of major issues on the field) donors in particle have a right to know, especially when it appears that the organization is doing as little as possible to comply with things like the EFCA ruling.

    My assumption and hope is that there are legal reasons for his silence (as there is certainly grounds for major legal intervention). I still wish he’d open acknowledge that there are issues, that he’s focused on resolving them, and will back out and speak more if things are unreconcilable. Being accountable to these things is not an option for any group funded by the public (and if they say it is run far away).

  49. “Meanwhile in Texas…”

    I love this song.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMNw_-yUm_0

  50. I think Chan lacks some judgement. I remember not too long ago him saying praise for Mike Bickle from the iHop. That has been some scary controversial cultish stuff going on there. Celebrity pastor protecting celebrity pastor.

  51. TP,

    I don’t think there are very many here who are vilifying what actions you have taken in regards to GFA. It would seem you acted appropriately and commendably within your realm of responsibility and influence.

    And like Michael said a few comments up, I think very few are vilifying Damian or Chan for having joined and/or quit the GFA board. The problem we have is that they are not saying anything about the problems with GFA in efforts to protect the victims and innocent. Since they chose the responsiblility to be on the board and are/were close to the situation, they must have a better understanding of the evil taking place than any of us here who are choosing to speak out about the situation. They are to be commended for any behind the scenes work they are doing/have done to try to fix K.P. and GFA. However, since there has not been an immediate repentance and about face by K.P. and GFA, then due to the position they freely chose to take, they have a moral and spiritual responsibility to sound the alarms to try to protect more harm from occurring to the innocent. I think we are aware enough of the many passages in the Bible that speak to protecting the weak and innocent that I don’t feel the need to proof-text here. This is where Damian and Chan and the others are failing and this is the main criticism that is taking place here.

  52. In all candor I have not followed this one too closely. My question is how many innocent people will suffer in the process of setting this matter right? That is usually the case. Getting rid of Mark Driscoll probably cost a lot of people their job who had nothing to do with his abusiveness. People who serve ministries with purity get hurt in the correction of the malicious. So how can this be avoided?

  53. BD @ 52 How can this be avoided?

    Pretty simple—Don’t put the assets and control in the hands of one person who then chooses his minions to cater to him.

    Create a structure that even if that chief person leaves, the building and equipment, along with work product stays with the body, and the body is capable of continuing on with little interruption in its operations, administration, and the primary goals and objectives that put it in place initially. Raise up leaders (men and women) who are able to fill in when needed, and out of that another can be selected to fills the void. All done in prayer, discernment, and agreement, of course.

  54. One other suggestion: Be sure to choose one who will shepherd, not rule over others.

  55. Funny, when a person blatantly exhibits one behavior after another and witness after witness comes forward, then documents reflects certain facts that indicates a lack of integrity, somehow we “might” be in error in calling such a person a son of the devil. What precisely does this phrase mean? Simple: one who does not honor God in behavior, thought, and deed. From what I understand, these things did not take place in a day, a week, or even a month. It was over a long period of time and it involved more than just the 100 witnesses often referenced. It involved other congregations, ministries, and even spanned two continents and more than one country, that included laws, regulations, policies, all the way down to its board members. That’s a whole lot of duplicity carrying on. Is KP a Christian? According to scripture, he is not. No matter how well he might know, teach, and declare them from the highest mountain top to the tip of the robe he wears. Heck, Satan knows scripture better than anyone. And just as Satan used it in the desert to tempt Jesus, so too we are told that there will be people like KP that will con their way into to rape and to feed upon the goodness and hard earned resources of others. My prayer and only prayer would be for his salvation.

    As for board members, I have learned a long time ago that you simply do not take on that position to fill in a space to be in compliance or to make it look good on your resume. You take on that position because you believe that you can do the job that inherent and the first thing you do is make sure you are clear on just how much of a vote you do have and what limitations you do have and where that limitation lies. If you find out that this position is to rubber stamp the final decision maker—you decline the position. And if you find out there is corruption, you attempt to address and correct this. If this fails, then you expose this with all the facts at your disposal—–not leave quietly, for it to continue on. Period. That’s integrity and that’s honoring the Lord.

  56. Whole heartedly agree with #55, second paragraph.

    “And if you find out there is corruption, you attempt to address and correct this. If this fails, then you expose this with all the facts at your disposal—–not leave quietly, for it to continue on. Period. That’s integrity and that’s honoring the Lord.”

    I wish the exiting board members had stuck in there and done their job. However, it is not too late for them to agree on a statement and explanation that they could all sign. By not speaking out with clarity, their actions can be interpreted any number of ways and easily dismissed by GFA in a blizzard of propaganda.

    GFA is organized as a church. Any future disclosure will be voluntary/incomplete since they are exempt from filing 990s and no longer need to provide independently audited reports now that they have been booted out of ECFA.

  57. How can all the collateral damage be avoided?

    It’s really, really simple.

    Leaders need to act like Christians.

    When Christians sin, they confess, repent, and try to make good what was lost.

    When they do so, grace abounds.

    What they want in this case and others is for grace to abound without the messy business of confession and repentance.

    We might want to get completely rid of parachurch orgs too…haven’t thought that one completely through yet.

  58. “Crazy Love…” for his own Brand and his own arse and arse-sets.

    He couldn’t care less other than to make sure his and his own is in the clear and as long as none gets on him, he’s good to go and outtie.

  59. TP’s got a bit of persecution complex because people don’t agree with him.
    Look, Kyle, Chan and other board members didn’t do their job. It is a reasonable expectation that “Christians” on a “Christian Missions” board would be truthful and upfront about financial issues.
    This has not happened. We can debate and speculate all we want about why or why not, but the bottom line is that GFA continues to get a pass from those charged with protecting the sheep.

  60. I don’t know what is harder: Finding out who the board members were and are on GFA or finding them on your local CC franchise. I know I have asked a few times who the board members were at a CC I attended and my questions fell on deaf ears each and every time. I’m not sure if they purposely try to keep this a secret or they think its not important to disclose but it does make me suspicious. Anybody who is a board member of a church better be first and foremost serving the sheep in that congregation as a servant of Jesus Christ. Otherwise, you are not qualified and should step down in this capacity.

  61. “I don’t know what is harder: Finding out who the board members were and are on GFA or finding them on your local CC franchise. I know I have asked a few times who the board members were at a CC I attended and my questions fell on deaf ears each and every time. I’m not sure if they purposely try to keep this a secret”

    You have hit the root motherload of corruption in the 501C3 church/mafia. It’s a rigged game and the deck is stacked in favor of the House… The “shepherds” (Dons) fleece the flock while living lavishly all the while lying, deceiving and threatening anyone who challenges their turf. They then franchise togther and protect one another like the mafia families in the Godfather…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jpwqWPKAUc

  62. I often hear that GFA has helped millions in India. Can anyone provide one shred of proof of this? If not, please stop saying it. Where are the workers in India? If you count the school teachers, office cleaners, the guys that serve tea in the office we might come up with tens of thousands.

    I don’t understand this restoring business. Restore a person to what? Lying, misusing funds, betraying others, using others as a stepping stone and all else? Just because a person uses the right “Christian” words doesn’t mean they believe them. Westerners seem to be the most gullible in believing words instead of believing the walk. The walk speaks more of the heart than the words.

    Many people in the States are unaware of GFA. Some we talked to just yawned in our faces, like ho hum…another Christian scandal. Still others have a really hard time dealing with betrayal and refuse to look at facts. It is sad on both sides of the pond. You have no idea what is going on India over this. Not fun for anyone to go through. Please keep India in your prayers. Thanks.

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