Sep 252012
 

It seems that some atheists are in the midst of a 40 day prayer challenge in which they are daily asking God to reveal Himself to them and thus prove His existence.

The outcome is pretty predictable…God rarely allows Himself to be used as a lab experiment and according to Romans 1 He has already revealed Himself.

Still, I give the atheists credit for hitting vital spot, even if accidentally.

It has always seemed to me that prayer (and God’s responses to it) was the way relationship was created and maintained between ourselves and God.

As I have often written here, the absence of those answers has caused me no small amount of doubt and angst.

Yet, I believe…Lord help my unbelief.

We sure have a lot of folks right now who could use some direct divine intervention…

Those of you who watched Monday Night Football last night saw the worst officiated game in NFL history as the regular officials have been replaced by amateurs in a labor dispute with the NFL.

While football fans are justifiably outraged, this is the way of corporate America today.

Professional bankers, salespeople, managers, and others have been replaced by lower paid amateurs to increase corporate profit lines.

Your bank account is in the same hands as that football game was…

Tony Campolo has a new book coming out with Shane Claiborne advocating that we all become “red letter Christians” giving precedent to the words of Jesus over the rest of Scripture.

In honor of this I pulled some ecumenical red letter quotes for us to meditate on.

““Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.”

(Matthew 25:41 ESV)

“So he said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek me, and you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.””

(John 8:21 ESV)

“You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.””

(John 8:44–47 ESV)

Have a good day…

 

 

  93 Responses to “Loose Ends”

  1. “Professional bankers, salespeople, managers, and others have been replaced by lower paid amateurs to increase corporate profit lines.”
    in my town it’s the nurses that are being replace … a scary system – the state just spend considerable $$s to build a facility on the community college campus to train nurses and others in the medical field and the graduates are being hired, but they are laying off or firing all their experienced nurses at the high end of the wage scale to do so … makes a case for unions, but corporate lawyers seem find work-arounds

    “We sure have a lot of folks right now who could use some direct divine intervention” … amen, praying with … pondering today as to whether or not God’s children are/should be protected from the tests and privations that come in times like these … still, there is always much to pray for and to expect from our good and faithful Father

  2. I confess I will never understand the logic of “red letter Christians.” As if the words of God the Holy Spirit are any less divine and authoritative than the words uttered through the incarnate mouth of God the Son.

  3. If the atheists are sincere in their request, then some will be saved. He will begin to open their eyes to His work all around them. If they are looking for sky-writing, they’ll be disappointed, but if they sincerely look for God, they will find Him. Hallelujah!

    The Red Letter Christians are going to change their name to “Red Letter’s that we Like” Christians. Then to “Stuff we made up oursleves” Christians. Then to “Atheists”.

  4. Atheists and prayer(sigh). Would they even know if God did speak to them?

    I prefer these red letters –

    JOhn 5:39 – “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me”.

    John 5:46 – “For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me.”

    Luke 24:25-27 “And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.”

    We can agree on the officiating for last nights game – THE. WORST.

  5. I have a little sympathy with the Red Letter devotees. As I’ve been observing churches and other religious organizations for six decades now I’ve noticed that there are Jesus-oriented groups and Paul-oriented groups.

    In the “Paul” groups a tremendous about of energy is spent on the book of Romans and on whatever doctrine the group finds in Romans that floats their theological boat. Every word St. Paul said is analyzed and applied, often in ways the Apostle never intended, I am sure. “Paul” groups spend a lot of time expounding on their view of the Atonement and generally worry about such imaginary problems such as the uselessness of good works, etc. They usually have a highly developed scenario for the Last Days.

    The “Jesus” groups are often a little hazy on soteriology and eschatology and are more inclined to focus on the Person of Jesus. These groups are very interested in the events in the Lord’s life, the things He did and said and told his followers to do. The Sermon on the Mount is taken seriously and so are many of the other things He said that are sorta brushed aside by the “Paul” groups. “Jesus” groups are not concerned that they might be guilty of “working their way to heaven.”

    Either one is out of balance but I know which group I prefer.

  6. I have never concerned myself much about the antics of atheists – those are stunts atheists do and should be fully expected.

  7. I just tell the “red letter” guys, “There are no red letters in the original greek” . 😉

  8. The atheists sound like mormons – praying for a burning in the bosom.

    (oops – am I allowed to talk truthfully about mormons with Mitt Romney being the new evangelical white horse hero?)

  9. In moderation am I.

    Must be for the NFL officiating comment. 😉

  10. Shaun, just don’t call him a cultist or all heck will break loose.

  11. Would “cult-member” be better?

  12. Atheists, Mormons, JWs, Muslims, Jews etc are all in the same category of being Christ deniers – we don’t need to make sharp divisions.

  13. Mormons and JW’s are a little different, because they doggedly claim to be Christian. At least the others you listed are clear on the division.

  14. Josh, Muslims and Jews do the same as Mormons and JWs – they say they worship the same God.

  15. They don’t claim to be Christians, and in the case of Mormons, demand to be accepted as such. Doesn’t mean that any of these is any more believer than the other, just that there are some differences.

  16. “Atheists, Mormons, JWs, Muslims, Jews etc are all in the same category of being Christ deniers – we don’t need to make sharp divisions.” amen to the sharp divisions observation

  17. Cult-members, Christ deniers, athiests, red letter Christians, replacement referrees; all terms thrown around with various connotations, some being negative. But Michael better take heed of the one verse he posted, as he readily admits that he’s not as “conservative” as some other evangelicals, because the real danger is in being a liberal: “Then he will say to those on his LEFT, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” 🙂

    Just joking, please not the 🙂

  18. “Josh, Muslims and Jews do the same as Mormons and JWs – they say they worship the same God” … unknowingly, they do, perhaps

  19. i’m all for red letter editions of the N.T. – i couldn’t have written my book without it 😐

  20. *note*, not *not*, in my #17.

    In all seriousness, I have always appreciated Tony Campolo and the little bit I know about Shane Claiborne. Heck, they are Philly guys. I probably appreciate them more than most who don’t claim to be “Red letter Christians”. However, that doesn’t mean I don’t disagree with some of their theology and think that sometimes their pushing of the Red Letter stuff can cause more harm than good.

  21. I remember when Tony Campolo used to do that gimmick where he’d say the S-word in his sermon. That seemed to be a big money maker.

  22. “The outcome is pretty predictable….” True, but I will hope that this one time, after forty days, the atheists get struck by lightning.

  23. “I have three things I’d like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don’t give a s***. What’s worse is that you’re more upset with the fact that I said s*** than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night.”

    If he’s saying it to make money, then he’s got wrong motives. If he’s saying it with the main intent to make a legitimate point and bring needed attention to an issue, then I have no problem.

  24. I shouldn’t have questioned his motives. Who knows why he was doing that? I just mean that he got a lot of attention for a while doing that.

  25. “If he’s saying it to make money, then he’s got wrong motives. If he’s saying it with the main intent to make a legitimate point and bring needed attention to an issue, then I have no problem.”

    If you need to cuss to make your point then you have a communication problem

    Colossians 4;6-“Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.”

  26. Solomon, and I think you verify Tony’s point. Rather than your first reaction being shown towards concern for the dying children, it is shown towards concern that a cuss word was used.

  27. Solomon, you have a lot of nerve talking about the way anybody else speaks! Before you say anything about anyone, take the beam out of your own eye. Your words about other people (people you don’t even know in many cases)are worse than cussing. No love, Soloon. Your words never have any love. Just noise…

  28. See, it shows me a flaw in his communication. 20 years later, I didn’t remember the point at all, only that he went around saying curse words.

  29. Josh, I’m not making an argument of how “effective” his communication was. Only that, if his motives were good, I don’t have a problem with him saying it.

  30. Kevin said:

    “Solomon, and I think you verify Tony’s point. Rather than your first reaction being shown towards concern for the dying children, it is shown towards concern that a cuss word was used.”

    Why does it have to be an either or? Many people try to guilt trip others and say that people don’t care about all the dying people in the world. For one charity begins in our own backyard, there are plenty here where i live that need help so that’s what I do. Now I also try to help with missions thru my home fellowship by my first priority is to help those in my midst. Being that I have limited means I can only do so much. I’m not a superman so I just do my part and the fact that children are dying the world over doesn’t mean that cussing is okay. He coulda made his point all the same without using that word.

  31. I have always thought his point was a good one. Sadly, some Christians get more upset over the fact that someone uses a curse word than upset over the fact that children are dying. I know it stopped me in my tracks the first time I heard it.

  32. Solomon,

    It’s not an either or. The point Tony is making is that people show *MORE* concern about a curse word being said than they do about thousands of kids dying from starvation and malnutrition.

    I acknowledge that an argument can be made that a preacher should not be saying such a word in the pulpit. Even in the context that Tony uses it to try to make a point. However, when the principal reaction is to show concern towards a curse word being said, it only serves to prove the point he’s making.

  33. I understand the Red letter guys even if I don’t totally agree with everything. However they are not the “bible deniers” that some people make them out to be. There is a DIFFERENCE between the revelation of the character of God as described to us by our Lord Jesus, and the Old Testament Prophets. Not less inspired, but FULLY revealed. Paul makes that argument in Hebrews.

    It isn’t to say that we should ignore, but we must see the prophets of old in light of JESUS. I cannot simply take Moses account of God’s “regret” and then extrapolate that God must not know everything. When Paul says that all scripture is “God-Breathed” he’s speaking of the Old Testament. And if you want to know about doctrinal issues regarding “righteousness” than by all means refer and defer to Moses, Ezekiel, Isaiah and the like. But if you want to know how God feels about PEOPLE than defer to JESUS.

    Hebrews 1:1-3 “IN THE PAST God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 BUT in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the EXACT REPRESENTATION of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.”

    Jesus said if you’ve seen me, (and how I treat sinners) then you’ve seen the Father (and how He treats sinners.)

  34. For a long time now i have thought that we need to differentiate between coarse language and cursing … for instance, if my dog leaves a deposit on your lawn and you step in it – in your bare feet – and i hear you exclaim, “OH Sh*t!” isn’t that different that an exclamation of, “J*sus Chr*st, G*d d*ammit!” ? i don’t think the former is as offensive – not anywhere near so – as the latter . . .

  35. Em speaks wisdom once again!

  36. the red letters……. had a good laugh on that one Michael..

    well, I guess the NFL could just cancel the rest of the season….. it matters not to me…..

    sometimes I think atheism is a viable alternative to what we see in the church today…..or, perhaps the church is filled with a bunch of practical agnostics and they just don’t realize it…..

  37. I mentioned here before that I appreciate Tony Campolo. My daughter received her Masters Degree from Eastern Baptist and was his secretary during her residency. Again, I don’t always agree with him, particularly some of his politics, but I see more mercy displayed by him and Shane than what I see from most of my more conservative brethren.

  38. nic gravatar Mr. seat. I’m sending you a message via fb….

  39. I second Nonnie’s agreement with Em. A lot of what we would generally refer to as “curse” or “cuss” words would probably be better classified as coarse language, in comparison to real cursing. Even in those words that we would consider “coarse language”, there is a lot of blurring as to what some would consider coarse that others wouldn’t. It is seemingly a cultural thing more than anything else that decides which particular words are okay and which ones aren’t.

    I personally try to avoid using coarse language although there are a few words I use that some may still find as coarse. I generally don’t think it’s a good idea to use coarse language. But all that to say, again, if we find ourselves being more concerned with somebody using coarse language, especially when it is limited or only being used in a certain context such as Tony used it, than we are about thousands of kids dying, then there is something wrong with us.

  40. Bob,

    That’s because Tony & Shane are Philly guys. We are know for our kindness and compassion. All that booing only means we care. 🙂

  41. I like Tony Campolo. The guy is funny, witty and a very good story teller. I don’t go to Campolo for doctrine – rarely is that his subject matter.

    But geez, how are you going to be critical of a guy who says, serve your neighbor and feed the hungry?

  42. Well, MLD, I wasn’t really critical of him…but what if he said serve your neighbor, feed the hungry, and ignore the rest of the bible? Wouldn’t that be worthy of a little criticism?

  43. Well I haven’t read or listened to any Campola since the early 90s. I guess if he is going around saying to ignore the rest of the Bible… but I doubt he has done that.

  44. Red letter Christians are predictably editorial about even the Reds…. it is a silly notion … but I am pretty sure that if you seriously follow the reds you will do OK…

  45. Well I got ‘detained’ by the guys who have overseen the thug squads in my Africa tour. I have one thing to say … do not empower thugs by protecting them. Evil triumphs by some really devastating means. Our world is full of REAL EVIL and I applaud making this blog more about exposing evil on the scale of Mexico and Zimbabwe and less bother about pedant preachers … nah… keep busting the ones who hurt people.

    There is no making nice with wickedness…

  46. What does that mean?

  47. I heard a Rush Limbaugh clip where he bloviated about the Packers-Seahawks officiating last night. . I think he’s lost his mind. It made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

    Everybody else on the Right is saying that it was a mistake to use scab refs — including Mittens Romney and the Wisconsin Governor, who’s just to the right of Attila the Hun.

    The lesson is pretty obvious. Too bad Rush doesn’t have any brain cells left to figure it out.

  48. I think Rush’s point was that the frustration of football fans watching incompetent refs was analogous to the frustration of conservatives watching the media report the news incompetently.

  49. Wow. Profound.

    SARCASM MODE OFF.

  50. The incarnated ,crucified and risen Jesus is presented in the Gospels and the Holy Spiirt bears witness to Him. The incarnated, crucified , risen and exalted Jesus is presented in the Epistles and the Holy Spirit bears witness to Him.

    The red letter shanningans are just a pseudo evangelical version of the Jesus Seminar. Men becoming the final authorities on the authenticity of the revelation of God.

    Shane Claiborne must not have much to say if he has to sell a book on this premise.

    I guess Tony is glad that he has notable disciples.

  51. “Red Letter” is hardly “shenanigans”.
    It is an honest attempt to focus on Jesus, and to return to the center Person of our faith. Evangelicals drone on about Paul, Charismatics offer “a fresh Word of The Spirit”, high church appeals to creeds, Judaism appeals to rabbinical commentary, yet why do we fault anyone for wanting to find and give greatest weight to the very recorded words of God Incarnate?

  52. Because all of those words are received the same way. The words of Jesus in the Gospels weren’t written down by Him. They were transmitted from one person to another, one source to another, and then to the written form we now have. We believe in Faith that the Holy Spirit has guided this transmission, just as we believe the Holy Spirit guided Paul’s hand in his writing. Why would Paul’s words about Jesus be any less authoritative than Mark or Luke?

  53. The Pauline Epistles present a follower of Jesus who bore in his the marks of Jesus, who chose to be constrained towards others by the love of Christ, who was willing to fill up in his body the afflictions of Christ, was willing to strive and labor so that everyone might be complete in Christ who was willing to be rejoice in prison as long as the Gospel of Christ was preached, who ended his pilgrimage being poured out as a drink offering upon the others faith in Christ.

    Pauls life was a red letter life. These people like Claiborne are at ease and therefore easily teased with their novelties of what life in Christ is about.

  54. I don’t have a problem if someone wants to spend more time in the gospels than in the epistles, I just don’t think that they will glean anymore information or blessing.

    But I do think that we read and teach somewhat selectively. I don’t know anyone who spends as much time in the OT as the NT or that teaches more in the OT than the NT. I think as Christians, we like the NT better.

  55. I don’t know anyone who spends as much time in the OT as the NT or that teaches more in the OT than the NT
    —————————-
    Time?

    Well…our midweek is 60 minutes of teaching and Sunday is 30 minutes. Sundays are almost always in the NT and midweek in the OT.

    Dispensational AV

  56. AV,
    I look at it this way. If I go into a church’s website to look at their messages, and they have gone through the Bible, they usually have as many tapes for the OT as they do the NT even though the OT is about 3 times as large

  57. FWIW (not much) i’m hardly a scholar but i found something interesting occurred for me as i worked thru writing a passage for a novel – it called for a pragmatic, nice Jewish man to find himself sitting down to casually read from a Christian Bible – he’d picked up a red letter edition – he thumbed thru to the words of Jesus in Matthew and as i wrote i found myself a little bit awed by how much was referring to O.T.

  58. What are tapes? 😉 Besides, you are the one who bemoans evangelicals preaching through the geneologies of Chronicles on Sundays. I know that even at your most argumentative you aren’t going to suggest that a chapter like John (3), Romans (8), Ephesians (2) is of no greater value or importance than 1 Chronicles (3) or Job (8).

    I think I did the first 6+ chapters of Leviticus in one, one-hour message. I could not (nor would I try) to do six chapters of any NT book in an hour unless clearly as a survey style message (which Leviticus was not – we covered it all).

  59. Just for fun, MLD I did a quick inventory.

    11 OT books (plus part of the Psalms) in approx. 162 hours.

    14 NT books in approx. 124 hours.

    Some of the NT books are very short, most of the OT books are pretty long.

  60. AV,
    I wasn’t saying anything bad about it at all. I do believe that there is a ranking of important scriptures. I was just pointing out that there is no harm in choosing to read the gospel (red letters) more than the epistles or visa versa.

    We all do it – pick and choose. Look at John MacArthur – he never preaches from the OT (except Daniel and Ezekiel).

    At my church we have 3 0r 4 reading each week – OT, – Epistle – Gospel and some weeks from the Psalms… but 8 of 10 messages are centered on the Gospel reading.

  61. What I’m missing here is why Paul, as a follower, is so much more valuable as an example and a teacher than Jesus Himself, the very Singular and unique Son of The Living God, Who is God Incarnate?

    Without Paul, we still have a succinct and vital faith and body of teaching.
    Without Jesus, it’s simply not worth believing.

  62. not new news, but Paul’s mission was to us gentiles, after coming to Christ (some of which was thru listening to Paul) we were a pretty rude and crude bunch (no matter what those Greeks claim) … i appreciate going thru Paul’s finishing school – just sayin

  63. I guess the question, G, is whether or not one believes Paul was inspired by the spirit when he wrote those letters. If he was, then his words are just as crucial as Mark’s…or Luke’s. The question is not about the person, of course Jesus is the most important. Paul himself pointed to Jesus. The question is about inspiration of Scripture.

  64. Even if inspired or not, we have the issue of infallibility based on “Who” VS “who”

    “Who” = Jesus
    Infinite Being willingly constrained within a human male body & consciousness, sinless and choosing to never sin, authoritative by word & deed

    “who” = Paul (or Peter, James, John, Jude, Queen Esther, Asaph, Mary…)
    Created being, even if occasionally communicating as led/inspired by the 3rd Person of The Godhead, subject to fallibility, cultural bias, human limitations, limited scientific understanding.

    Red Letters simply and easily focus the final authority as the words & narrative of the life of Jesus, of which all other actors are secondary players.

  65. But you are missing the fact that those Red Letters are just being quoted to you by other guys. Guys no different than Paul.

  66. The authority comes from The Author, not from the editors.

    The graphic design choice of “red letters” is a simple device to use the time tested principles of visual hierarchy within the science of visual communication to make the reader understand the importance of The Character speaking, and the rightful place of all other text, dialog, scene, settind and story.

  67. So you are saying you trust Mark and Luke to accurately quote Jesus, but not Paul to accurately relay His message?

  68. On this thread I agree with Josh. Baptists and Lutherans together. 🙂

  69. So you are saying you trust Mark and Luke to accurately quote Jesus, but not Paul to accurately relay His message?”

    I am saying that all others are less authoritative than Jesus, based on Who He ::is::
    and based on who all others ::were::

  70. But Jesus didn’t write a book.

  71. In my short journey in Christendom I’ve been pushed and pulled, urged and prodded, compelled, cajoled and coerced to consider all the varied shadings of discipleship that come from the interpretative overlays of persons and groups which offer their ways of following Jesus but very few are interested in simply following ::Him::

    Red letters, in context, within TheGospels greatly simplifies all the issues by going back to Jesus.

  72. So, because others wrote books I should listen to them, because they chose to use technology?

  73. That’s fine, but it is still going back to Jesus: as presented by a possible follower of Peter, and a possible companion of Paul. There is still a transition where it takes a leap of faith to say “these are the very words of God”. I don’t see why Paul’s words in the New Testament are any less authoritative.

  74. I don’t understand your #73.

  75. “But Jesus didn’t write a book.”
    My reply was,
    “So, because others wrote books I should listen to them, because they chose to use technology?”

    “I don’t see why Paul’s words in the New Testament are any less authoritative.”
    Paul was a mere human.
    Jesus was, is and forever shall be God.
    I’ll take God over any mere human.

  76. “Jesus was, is and forever shall be God.
    I’ll take God over any mere human.”
    OF COURSE!!!

    But you aren’t talking about a book written by Jesus vs. a book written by Paul. You are talking about certain guys, who probably never spoke to Jesus, quoting Jesus vs. Paul saying he was delivering a message from Jesus.

    There seems to be an intellectual disconnect as to why you would view one with more authority.

  77. i can amen the G man at least this far … IF you can’t read and accept those words in red letters, then those other apostles’ epistles aren’t going to do anything but create a legalistic religion for you … hmmm …. apostles’ epistles sounds weird – make that their “letters” or their “instruction” or something … ‘epistle’ sounds like something a flautist would have

    my brain is shutting down for the day 😐

  78. The epistles were written some time before the gospels – I wonder how the readers got along.

  79. “You are talking about certain guys, who probably never spoke to Jesus, quoting Jesus vs. Paul saying he was delivering a message from Jesus.”

    Um, let’s see, the faith community was full of followers, eyewitnesses, and “the Gospel guys” were running down the facts, getting interviews, comparing and contrasting quotes, arriving at a body of evidence for all the things Jesus said and did.

    Contrast that with a guy who CLAIMS that Jesus appeared to him and taught him over the space of a few years… sure, but I will hitch my wagon with the Gospel as a greater authority. Please recognize that I’m not completely dismissing the “Christ appeared to me” guy, just subjugating his claims to The One who the faith community was able to successfully do the vetting of eyewitness testimony to arrive at the quotes, claims and narrative.

    I treat that “Christ appeared to me guy” similar to the more recent American guy who claimed to have Christ and The Father and The Spirit appear to him, and also when anyone else shows up and says Christ appears to them or speak to them, I simply look at the red letters and the Gospels that contain them and make my decisions accordingly.

    Maybe it’s because I have always hung out with Charismatics and mystics. Gotta love them but gotta decide for oneself.

  80. “The epistles were written some time before the gospels – I wonder how the readers got along.”

    Which means books and words are not as important to the vital connection to a living God who is active and interceding on behalf for the believer, regardless of how studied or schooled the person is in the faith.

    Ultimately it’s about God, then all things proceed from God.

  81. “Um, let’s see, the faith community was full of followers, eyewitnesses, and “the Gospel guys” were running down the facts, getting interviews, comparing and contrasting quotes, arriving at a body of evidence for all the things Jesus said and did.”

    That seems to be true in the case of Luke, but not the others. Still, you are accepting in faith that that is what happened, and thus you give their words authority. Paul was just as vetted in approved by the faith community as the Gospels were.

  82. But the assumption that a follower should be of equal authority as his Rabbi and then change the meaning or view of his Rabbi is loaded with the possibility that one then departs from the Rabbi’s original intent

  83. That’s not the point. I have never said Paul is Equal with Jesus. I have said Paul is equal with Mark.

  84. G, I don’t get it – you have the teaching of Jesus according to other people (the gospel writer) just like we have the teaching of Jesus according to the epistle writers.

    You do not have the words or teaching of Jesus as written by Jesus.

    In the end, you are just saying that you like Matthew, Mark, Luke and John better because they used red ink.

  85. Contrast that with a guy who CLAIMS that Jesus appeared to him and taught him over the space of a few years
    ————————————————-
    Is it relevant to this discussion that Luke also wrote Acts, and is the one who tells us of Paul’s conversion experience? That Luke was a travelling companion and close friend to Paul?

    If Luke “got” the Gospel story correct, on what basis would we diminish the testimony Luke records in Acts. Especially since much of the testimony in Acts (unlike the Gospel story) is Luke’s eyewitness account of things.

    And does the first half of Acts chapter one count as red letter too? 😉

  86. And Mark, apparently, took his gospel directly from Peter’s preaching.

    Again, Peter, who affirmed Paul as a genuine Apostle.

  87. Im just sticking with The One who claimed to be God, lived the exemplary life, then proved Himself by rising from the dead.

    All the other stuff is supplement

  88. The only way you know any of that is through the Gospel writers…who we’ve already shown accepted Paul as well.

    Just seems like an inconsistent, untenable point of view, but hey, that’s your choice.

  89. G, Thats a great sentiment, “Just give me Jesus.”

    But, He is the subject of the whole NT, heck, the whole Bible. To say that you will only care what four books say about Him…seems self limiting. Thats only about 6% of the entire Bible that you seem to advocate concerning yourself with.

    If my wife told me that she only wanted to know 6% of all that I would want her to know about me…. I don’t know. I might feel hurt.

  90. The Gospels are 100%

    The rest is history and speculative overlay, mostly unrelated, certainly needful of being looked at through the lens of Jesus of The Hospels, and not the other way around

  91. Gospels

    Dang autocorrect

  92. Hey, love you all.
    Gotta take the missus to the doctor.
    Always nice chatting.
    Have a great weekend!

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