Nov 142017
 

Phil and I are back together again and today we deal with the troubling story surrounding Bob Coy.

 

It was early in the month of June that I was contacted…and the contact was in the form of a police report sent via social media.

The file was, without a doubt, the most sickening document I had ever received.

It was the police report detailing the allegations that have been made against Bob Coy in the Miami New Times story.

There had been rumors of such for months, but nothing of substance that could justify repeating in a public forum.

Within a couple of days I’d received multiple copies of the document.

The people who sent me the document weren’t disgruntled former Calvary Chapel attendees, but people from inside the movement, including some pastors.

They wanted the story to come out and to come out as quickly as possible.

I sent the document to my advisors and some pastors I knew and trusted, including some in Calvary Chapel.

Everybody agreed that it should come out.

The question in my mind was how to gather all the possible information, write the story fairly, and above all else, protect the victim.

I decided I couldn’t do all of the above to the necessary standard and shelved the story.

That’s when I heard from Tim Elfrink, who wrote the story.

This was, in my mind, the proper way to proceed…with a local writer who could do investigative work on scene and have his work vetted by both attorneys and editors.

He did a fine job in my opinion.

He did so without the help of anyone who had wanted the story out so bad a few months before…when the rubber met the road, nobody would stand up and be counted.

If the allegations were true, the statistical probability that there may be other victims was high.

If the allegations were true, there was no way that this man should be able to go back into public ministry of any kind.

Somebody had to stand up.

Tim did and I’m going to as well.

This story has haunted me for a long time…

May the Lord bring righteousness and justice, grace and mercy in His measure, to all involved.

Update: My friend Christine Scheller just posted her story of reporting abuse in CC on Twitter…

1/ I’ve never publicly discussed the details of what the child and her mother told me about the @CalvaryChapel pastor I turned in to police in 2005. She was 12, developmentally delayed. She came to me for advice at a church service.

2/ Said he was pressuring her to use tampons so they could swim alone together, even though mom forbid it. Also kissing her on lips after told to stop, rubbing up against her breasts, paying her for massages, saying “I have a gun but don’t tell mom.”

3/ My husband was his friend, fixed his computer for him. It was full of photos of little blond girls like the two he always had nearby and those of the Amish families he vacationed with. Guy’s father had a second secret family, so backstory.

4/ Chuck Smith shot down everyone’s concern about this guy, including a board former / police chief whose wife had been molested as a child and expressed concern. No one would act.

5/ In collaboration with another police officer/board member I secretly taped the mother confirming behavior and separate concern by school counselors. On tape she says current pastor knew her 20 years, but never called to ask her what had happened.

6/No arrest was made because suspect intimidated the mother, his wife’s niece, and she wouldn’t corroborate her account to police. Tape may have been illegal, couldn’t be used as evidence. I still have the recording.

7/ However, police / DYFS told the mother that if she ever left her daughter alone with this pastor again, they would take her kids. I have her on tape saying that to me. After Chuck Smith died, he was demoted, then fired. He’s dead now.

8/ She was not grateful, didn’t care about the impact on my family. She was a single mother with cancer and this guy was offering financial and other support.

9/ After we left that church and went to one nearby, people started coming out of the woodwork telling me their stories and those of their children having been molested at Calvary Costa Mesa. That’s why I tipped off @CTmagazine in 2006. No internal change was forthcoming.

10/ And then nobody would go on the record except my husband, a staff pastor who had resigned over the vile cesspool of corruption. Chuck Smith dismissed him as a “disgruntled former employee” when in actuality he was a hero.

11/ I always tell people, pick up the phone if you suspect something, call police, let them do their jobs, and walk away. You cannot reform these corrupt institutions and trying to will destroy you and maybe your family too. /fin

 

  125 Responses to “Calvin’s Corner: The Coy Accusations”

  1. “when the rubber met the road, nobody would stand up and be counted”

    Therein lies the state of the church. It has become so polluted that outsiders have to do what those within should be doing. If my memory serves me right, it was a lady outside of CCFL that brought the information of the Coy adultery to the board. Even though–there is every indication that there were those within its ranks who knew of his ungodly perversions. Only then did they act upon it.

  2. JM,

    They are the ones that should have broken this story…

  3. YES, MICHAEL! YES THEY SHOULD HAVE!

    They have all left their man parts somewhere, for sure.

    Please forgive my query if it produces undue pressure, but have you been able to make progress on your bigger project–your book?

    It was such a blow when the true stories of so many were destroyed or, at the very least, compromised when the CCAbuse blog was taken down. There are those of us who are still hoping for the broader truth of CC to be told.

  4. JM – not their “man parts”. Their heart parts.

    Michael – I believe my “patron saint” Chuck B is proud.

  5. JM,

    I’m not much farther along…my health and personal circumstances have made much difficult of late.
    I still hope to do so…

  6. Anne,

    I hope so…

  7. Anne,

    May all their “parts” be set afire with shame for their rotten and negligent service to the body.

  8. Michael, I am truly sorry to hear that. We do continue to pray for you here. May God send you whatever help you may need. Your health is more important. Everything will come out in its time.

  9. Thanks, JM…
    I just amended the piece above with more info…

  10. The “Moses Model” seems to be becoming and sounding more like the “Mormon Model” every day. 🙁

  11. I had to sit down after I read that. I was hoping I would calm down. I didn’t.

    There are way too many of these stories. I saw many on the CCAbuse site, too. So many people’s lives were ruined in the story above. I say again, could history have been different if Chuck did what God wanted–what Scripture demanded– and stepped down instead of remaining at the helm of CC and rationalizing his own selfish need to be a prominent leader? After all, the above atrocity happened way after his disqualification. Did this “Association” become nothing more than a monument to a man who held to such a distorted view of pastors that he actually believed that God would overlook perversion and harm upon the very sheep they were supposed to guard? All because he believed he and others were God’s Anointed! You realize that this would mean that Chuck stepped over a line somewhere and was now in mental illness/delusion territory? Do you know this is the path usually taken by cult leaders? Anybody just a little bothered by that similarity? Are lights going on for anyone? Anybody ready to call this sick puppy what he was? Anybody ready to repent of deliberate blindness and idolatry when it comes to Chuck Smith!!!???

    This poor family. The people who were supposed to protect and teach and help are the ones who inflicted more hurt than any secular person on the face of this earth could have ever inflicted upon them. All in the name of a perverted version of God devised by a perverted man. Where the heck was the discernment!!?? What were all the airheads around Chuck Smith doing??!!! I hope they were enjoying their flagrant idolatry because God will “out” them eventually. Why would these poor people ever trust again? This is so evil, they have caused the enemies of God to blaspheme.

    Michael, can you say who else was present when Chuck was playing God while presiding over damage control on behalf of his resident pervert?

  12. JD

    A big AMEN!

  13. JM,

    The Schellers paid a deep price for standing up in this situation…a price that continues in some ways to this day.

    There is much more to the story, but I’m already buried today…we’ll revisit this in the future.

  14. That’s fine, Michael.
    It gets exhausting.
    As I said earlier, everything in its time.
    I took a time out and must also go back to work as well.

    May God comfort and even vindicate these poor people.
    Let them know someone else is praying for them.

  15. JM – they all knew. Every pastor on each side of any standing in the old guard of the current CC split knew . All of them. About that and so much more. Including Brodersen. Including McClure. No one. Not one among them has clean hands.

    This is one of those days I long for a lobotomy.

  16. As many of us took great exception to the “Chuck says” quoting and calling him “Papa Chuck”, and he never, ever told people to stop. Any wonder why we started referring to the place as “Costa Mecca”?

    The Moses Model is reprehensible and responsible for the shipwreck of many person’s faith.

    The very idea that someone is “anointed” is total BS.

    Checks & balances is how we resist tyrants, bullies and cults.

  17. Hi Anne, you don’t need a lobotomy, quite the opposite, your clear minded resistance to the herd mentality helped you escape.

  18. as these things come to light now a wonderful thought came to mind… how many others who think they were hiding behind God as they went about their perverted acts are now living in constant fear of being outed for the scum they really are?

    what the Church needs is a better understanding that it is appointed unto men once to live and after this the judgement… have these abusers really convinced themselves that they can claim that the blood of Christ has them covered? perhaps the following from Hebrews applies?

    Heb 10:26 and following: “For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
    Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
    How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?
    For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
    It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

    and another wonderful thought… how many are presently being stopped short of indulging their ugly impulses for fear of being found out – now that this false veil of sanctity has been split?

  19. Anne,

    Though my experiences with Calvary Chapel go back to 1973 (1979 with the Mother Church), I’ve been on this blog for only a couple of years so I probably do not know the stories of some of you folks. It sounds like you witnessed quite a bit first hand. I know what I went through in many CC’s, so I extend my genuine condolences to you. It would seem that the deeper we dig, the more rot one smells. I would even go so far to say that I believe that the ones that knew (of which the list would be much larger than we could print) probably suffered from the same mental illness/delusions as their mentor, Chuck Smith.

    I was affected by the cult activities of one side of my family before I came to Christ and got away. Unfortunately, I keep seeing things that are familiar and bring me to question if uncleanness crept in. Sexual perversion is often a sign of it. I don’t know–but it is a valid question.

    No lobotomy, Anne. You may be needed to help others. 🙂

  20. G-man I only escaped after too many decades of irreparable harm was done to my family and others. And too many of the scoundrels are still in operation. Sometimes the memories and emotions seem unbearable. Even though rationally I know they are survivable.

  21. Breathe that beautiful and fresh Portland air.

    :: sigh ::

    Our daughter is part of a sweet community there, very healthy.
    There is a beautiful life to be crafted after escaping the bubble.

  22. Sad in more was than one.

  23. Indeed there is, G. Between sweet friends as yourself, our host, cas, and so many friends old & new, the good fortune of landing in PDX, overall it has been a very good thing. Thanks for helping me refocus again.

  24. Anne,
    <3

  25. Michael – The article said that Coy now works at some night club – do you know in what capacity? That is part of the story I find startling – after the perversity that is. It speaks volumes about his state of sanctification. I think of the passage:

    “They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.” – 1 John 2:19

  26. I like the one where the dog goes back go his vomit.

  27. Ms. ODM,

    He is a manager.

  28. I read the article.

    Is anyone following up with coral springs police department cover-up or at least failure to pursue justice?

    Wanting to be fair, we know BC was/is a womanizer and adulterer, but the allegation of molestation of a little girl from age 4 until teens send almost unbelievable.

    I’m not saying it didn’t happen but there isn’t enough public info that I’ve read to say he did it beyond reasonable doubt.

    Tell me where I’m wrong.

  29. There isn’t enough public info because to present it would betray the victim.
    These are allegations, this is not a trial.

    The reporter who did the story may follow up on the CSPD aspect…

  30. I had dinner with friends in Boca Raton, Florida this past Saturday. All of us had attended CCFTL.

    As we were leaving, I half jokingly said, “Hey, let’s go see Bob Coy at Funky Biscuit.” My friends hadn’t heard/known that Coy was working there. One was disinterested, the other was skeptical but wanted to go. None of us were Coy fanboys; we were curious.

    So we went.

    I asked a server if he was working, and she said yes. She quickly ushered me in; my friends stayed back. She brought me right to him. He was sitting on a stool with his back to the bar, watching the loud musicians, surrounded by people.

    “How do I know you?” he asked. I said I was a face from the past. “From where?” Rather than say Calvary Chapel, I replied, “From Fort Lauderdale.”

    I told him I was curious about TFB and asked whether he selected the musicians. He said no, another manager did that. I said my friends and I had just wanted to see TFB. He said something like, well come on in and enjoy yourselves. Then I shook his hand, thanked him and walked back outside.

    My impression of him was that he was calm, relaxed, and approachable.

    My impression of myself was stunned amazement.

    The Lord had blanketed me with a peace and a supernatural calmness as I spoke with someone whom I had despised for what he had done and the lives he had wrecked at Calvary Chapel Ft. Lauderdale.

    I thought of Corrie Ten Boom’s account of meeting the Nazi prison guard many years after her imprisonment at the concentration camp. The guard came up to her after she had spoken about forgiveness. He asked her to forgive him, and she could not but instead was filled with hatred and rage and bitterness. Corrie, in that moment, asked the Lord for His power to forgive. And the Lord gave her that power, and she stretched out her hand and forgave that man from her heart. It was the Lord’s power to love.

    I do not say that I even thought about forgiving Bob Coy last Saturday night. But I will testify that the Lord removed hostility from my heart towards him, and gave me what I can only describe as a sense of unconditional love. I was still marveling at this supernatural heart change when I read today’s article.

    To borrow a phrase from Michael: Make your own application.

  31. I had a long reply typed out in the other thread based upon my own experience with reporting, cover up, denial, accusations against me about when I reported my teenage ex-BIL for abusing then Daughter just turned 3. Maybe The Lord didn’t want me to post it, or maybe I just hit the wrong key and I had to unplug the keyboard and the text was lost.

    All I want to say is to reinforce #11. And also to say, even though everyone here seem to be middle aged or older, teach your children their anatomically correct body parts as soon as they can talk. In my case, I would have reported it two months sooner than I eventually did.

    I’m aware of the false memory controversy of the 80s. I’ve digested info on the past three years that I never imagined I’d have to, most of which makes me sick. As a parent, trust your gut. My mother did in the early 80s, saving me from the child molester down the street (whom my babysitter ended up murdering my manslaughter… they guy had molested him and his two younger siblings).

    I thought I was far from this, until I had kids. Our story parallels ones like this: victim shaming, denial, projected guilt, cover ups…. and a family going on to this day in normality.

    I do forgive, but will never, ever, trust that person again, a young man whom I loved, which made it so much harder.

    As for whether Coy is guilty of the new accusations?

    When I was in my early 20s, I hung around with a guy who had been a few years behind me on high school. He had moved out of state and came back. He rode motorcycles like I did. He also said that he had slept with 49 girls and women by the time he was 20. I moved away, lost touch, reconnected. Not a close friend or a Christian.

    Four years ago, he was convicted of touching and secretly filming his 13 year old daughter’s friends. He was by then a prison guard, a good career in California. Not a single one of us on the old hang out crew was surprised or doubted it was true. A sex obsessed individual may be capable of anything.

  32. New Victor,

    I’m so sorry about your daughter.

    Interesting that you bring up the 80s. One reason the police couldn’t properly question the child was because of California laws that came out of the McMartin preschool case. They cannot ask children “leading” questions, so whether she was afraid, had been instructed not to talk, or really unaware that what was happening was wrong because of her cognitive challenges, I don’t know. But the police were frustrated by those restrictions.

    Conviction rates for child molesters are very low because these situations often involve close, personal relationships and there is not only internal pressure not to report, but family pressure as well.

  33. cascheller

    I remember the McMartin debacle (Huntington Beach, CA ?). Unfortunately, there were Christian ministries who aided and abetted the confusion and muddling of whatever the truth may have been. I seem to recall Johanna Michelson being involved and stirring the pot with assertions of repressed memories of satanic ritual abuse. I cannot remember for sure who the others were who may have worked with her (Caryl Matriciana?). Do you know much about Michelson or who worked with her on the McMartin case? If not, no worries. I have always had a lot of questions about her credibility.

  34. Wow. I know there are some good guy CC pastors but for the life of me, I don’t know why these good guy CC pastors would even bother to remain loyal to this tribe. Clearly they have no way to prevent this abuse from happening over and over again and why would any CC pastor be associated with this? The Moses model should be addressed visibly and denounced forcefully from the pulpit and put to bed with many of the other Chuck Smith slogans that don’t have a shred of biblical basis. Who cares whether they fly the dove or not. The non accountability practice of CC pastors who pick their own boards and have no congregational involvement in any decisions should be stopped ASAP.

  35. The only way the Moses Model can be effectively ended – and the only way anyone would believe it was over – would be to have a board set in place by vote of the congregation – 2 yr rotating terms. (obviously this would take a couple of terms to space out.)

    Anything less is the same old same old.

  36. We simply voted with our wallet and our feet, said bubye and determined not to look back. 😉

  37. JD, – “and determined not to look back.”

    But if we make demands on CC to make changes, then we are looking back.
    This is why I don’t care if the change or not – I won’t look back

  38. John 20:29 said, ” how many others who think they were hiding behind God as they went about their perverted acts are now living in constant fear of being outed for the scum they really are?”

    right

  39. I hope you let this comment through.
    I have not looked at this blog for almost a year.
    This morning I woke early with the thought to check out this blog and here is this post.
    As someone who experienced abuse individually and also with my entire family by this man, and leadership there, I am deeply saddened and shocked by this news.

    I commend you for your part in getting this info out.
    Sadly, most won’t know of the article.
    This info will come and go.
    I may just pay ol Bobby boy a visit in his new digs.
    Sure it will freak him out.

  40. Hi Michael,

    A close friend’s son found the Miami News article which was then forwarded to me. This is very disheartening and shocking to hear. As a believer for more than 20 years this leaves myself and many very sad and heavy-hearted.

    We are praying for greater faith and strength for the coming days.

    How the STAFF SHOULD HAVE BEEN GUARDING THE SHEEP INSTEAD OF ALLOWING THE WOLF TO DEVOUR THE FLOCK.
    Matthew 7:15-16
    ‘Beware of False Prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, BUT INWARDLY are RAVENOUS WOLVES.
    YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS. ‘

  41. Funky biscuit released a statement yesterday at 3pm saying they had no prior knowledge of the allegations and terminated BC.

    You won’t find him at FB anymore.

  42. Hannah, I’m so sorry you are among the wounded. May God grant you peace and healing.

  43. 41. That is welcome news.

  44. Hannah!

    It is good to see your name! I remember that you posted on CCAbuse about all the horrors you and your family endured. I wish that the true stories on that site had been gleaned and forwarded. Michael, of course has a lot of good information, so I do not slight our host. Also, Julie Anne has had a heart to pursue matters. It may be that she has more there than I realize. I think all would agree that holding on to too much of the sadness is not healthy. But, that is not the point. Publishing these stories can have the very good effect of giving courage to those who are recently suffering. When they find out that the abuser (or the association?) has a history, they are more prone to share what happened to them and, maybe–just maybe–the person (or association?) can finally be publicly shamed. Part of my point is proved by Coy being fired. It gives hope that he will not be given another flock. We’ll see.

    I had to curtail my postings in recent times due to a change in circumstances at my end. Frankly, I don’t know how long I will have today. I played hooky and have commented here in the last few days because of this issue. It seems that Coy is the scary and grotesque gift that keeps on giving. Thank you CCFL for breaking this story! Not! Coy is the poster child for all that was and continues to be evil in the mindset of the CC/Moses Model loyalists. Protect the image! Protect Pope Chuck! Protect the Perverted Pastor at all costs! Just make sure you don’t forget to disenfranchise and add to the suffering of the congregants along the way! Their suffering? Just the cost of doing business under the Moses Model. It’s all good! Pope Chuckie sanctioned putting the needs of the dung that occupied the pulpit over the needs of the deeply injured, so that makes is okay. Wasn’t he like God or something? (See the above account.) Screw what the Bible says when it becomes an inconvenience to the agenda. To pull from a quote in the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise, it (Bible) be more like guidelines anyway.

    BTW, Where are Greg Laurie’s and Brian Brodersen’s statements about this debauchery? It was well known that they were all good friends during the time all of this was going on. They were on stage together espousing all that Calvary needed to do to change with the times not too terribly long before all of this broke. Why have they never addressed this slime? Until they do, I feel no obligation to ever trust these men again. Further, I believe that, just because the men inside the CCA are predominantly airhead loyalists–it doesn’t mean that the other side is free of their own slime. I maintain that prudence is needed before any side is given support.

  45. Glad the Funky Biscuit made the decision to terminate their consulting agreement with BC.

    Now, as for whether or not CCFL is still paying BC….that should come out with a hearty “NO, we are not paying him anything! …”

  46. Michael,

    I do not do facebook. However, I was made aware of the following:

    “Mark Jefferies: Never missing an opportunity to bash Calvary Chapel (the original Chuck Smith version) Michael Newnham – aka the “Phoenix Preacher” had to chime in: “”There could be other victims out there,” says Newnham, “We need answers.”
    Like · 3 · November 14 at 3:25pm
    Manage
    Mary Danielsen
    Mary Danielson: I don’t want to get started on Newnham. 😏
    Like · 2 · November 14 at 6:50pm
    Manage
    Mark Jefferies
    Mark Jefferies: …Phoenix screecher?
    Like · November 14 at 7:09pm
    Manage
    Mary Danielsen
    Mary Danielson: Mark Jefferies my take is, after so many years of online bitterness and unbridled gossip, is that he’s going to have to give an account for so many idle words.
    Like · 2 · November 14 at 7:13pm”

    Who are Mark Jefferies & Mary Danielson?

    (Is Danielson the one who is an apologist from Dwight Douville’s church? The pastor who has been married 2 or 3 times?)

  47. Papias- Really good point!!

  48. JM

    Thank you for your kind words towards me.
    Yes, healing is important and this new information brings all the pain back.
    As was published, leadership knew about these allegations and they stated they also knew about contact to authorities..so that would be over two years they had this information and did nothing .. they would have done nothing about his infidelities prior to that until someone from the outside forced them to do something about it. Yet one by one, top leadership left from 2015 on. Now the timing..makes sense.

    I have directed others to this blog to listen to the informative exchange between Phil and Michael. Lots of good information there. My heart goes out to the victim.
    Before I was on CCA I came here to learn all about the issues going on at Calvary chapels and found others who were wounded as I was.

    Dusty, I remember you from way back.
    I hope you are doing well. Thank you for your compassionate heart.

  49. “BTW, Where are Greg Laurie’s and Brian Brodersen’s statements about this debauchery? It was well known that they were all good friends during the time all of this was going on. They were on stage together espousing all that Calvary needed to do to change with the times not too terribly long before all of this broke. Why have they never addressed this slime? Until they do, I feel no obligation to ever trust these men again.”

    Or for that matter, where is Malcolm Wild’s statement about this? After all, he was the muscle behind the original leadership overseeing all of the entire state of Florida. If he didn’t think you were Calvary, then you weren’t. I dealt with Malcolm Wild personally on that not too many years ago. He caused a lot of trouble to our fellowship from his little Merritt Island church office. Malcolm Wild was the one that had Bob Coy as the premiere headliner on stage, hosting Bob Coy’s boring stand-up comedy masquerading as “Bible messages” during pastor’s conferences at Calvary Chapel Merritt Island. Malcolm didn’t know anything? Nobody knew anything, ever? I guess Bob Coy was the greatest actor in the history of churchdom. Malcolm was the same guy that also put Pedro Garcia as the premiere speaker at the “pastors only” meeting that Malcolm holds every few months. Malcolm presented Pedro Garcia as the one that KNOWS how to “do church”. Of course, it was just a short time later that Garcia was gone forever due to “moral failings”. It’s good to see all these men being exposed as something other than the untouchable anointed.

  50. Where’s the police report?

  51. Hello Florida Anon, as one who has no problem watching the CC house of cards fall, I am curious what your definition of “moral failure” is regarding Pedro. I am not a Pedro groupie but had a lot of communication with him during his situation and several conversations afterward. I even discussed the issues with Michael and unless something happened since then, I’m not sure what “moral failure” you are referring to? If you are saying that all sin is moral failure, then I see your point. If you are saying there was infidelity or the equivalent in his marriage, then this is news to me and many here.

  52. Hannah,

    Thank you for confirming what I was remembering. It was someone from the outside who blew the Coy debauchery wide open. The church was too compromised to do so, apparently.

    Florida Anon

    Thank you for filling in some of the blanks for me. I had heard of the Florida CC Cliques and of Garcia’s fall into various immoralitiesl. It still seems hard to get more information about Garcia, though. The church itself seems to have been somewhat successful at keeping a lid on the whole of it. Can you recommend some links?

  53. Let me try to answer some things.

    First, I know Pedro Garcia and consider him a friend.

    There was no “moral failure” of the type we are used to parsing that I’m aware of and you can believe that I asked..

    I want to make that very clear.

  54. Scott,

    A lot of folks now have the police report, unfortunately.

    I cannot publish it without betraying the victim.
    I will not publish it.

  55. JM,

    Mark Daniels runs a website as a “discernment ministry”.

    I fall outside of what he believes to be orthodoxy, as does most of the historic church.

    He hates Brodersen and hates my coverage of the CC split even though he clearly has no sources or information to dispute a single word I have ever written.

    He has never engaged me personally on these matters, as he knows he is out of his league theologically and journalistically.

    I have no idea who the woman is.

  56. Papias,

    To my knowledge, CCFL is not paying Coy anything…they already paid him to go away.

    In terms of Coy’s other employment, these are charges, a trial has not and probably will not happen.

    I don’t believe that it serves any purpose to keep these people unemployed.

  57. Michael,
    U can publish the report and blacken out the persons name…

  58. Thank you, Michael. To be fair, all I could find were statements regarding a problem with substance abuse. Drugs and alcohol were specifically named.

    All that being said, the reputation of CC’s “wall of silence” preceded this situation and hard questions should be expected in light of it. I will say until I can’t–If a pastor does not want the stigma of suspicion, due to CC’s history of lying and deflection upon them, they need to publicly decry and distance themselves from the policies that caused it in the first place. It’s not rocket science.

    Garcia has other baggage, though. Hillsong has come under increasing scrutiny lately for its own child molestation problems. His lack of discernment slip might be showing. We’ll see.

    I am on the record for not believing leaders until I see proof of some things anyways, so you may take that into account, if you wish.

  59. In regard to Brodersen and Laurie…

    According to my sources at the time (which were as good as you can get) both men were stunned by the revelations about Coy.

    They has no idea this was going on.

    At this date Laurie has little interest in CC conflicts…

  60. Scott,

    No, I can’t.
    I really can’t and won’t say much more on that topic.

  61. JM,

    Pedro will be the first to confess the issues he had.

    He “enjoyed” a a session with me grilling him like a sausage over a number of things and I’m convinced that he acted properly in how he handled his issues.

    He’s not in “ministry” right now…busy making music and rebuilding his life.

  62. Imo, discussing this publicly without any indication of proof comes across as hearsay and bordering on libel. Granted, nothing that has been said is surprising, mind u; however, I see no issue with publishing the police report w/ the claimants name blackened out to remove any indication of libel, gossip, etc. otherwise, just like the New Times article, it is opinion at best.

  63. Scott,

    Things are simple when you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.

    The reason that I didn’t break this story in June is because there was no way to publish the report (the existence of which has been affirmed by the authorities in Florida) without it being very easy to identify the victim.

    There is not just a name, but a narrative.

    I don’t care if you you believe me or not, you aren’t the one who has been working with all this and more for months.

  64. Scott,

    It would seem quite possible that even if a claimants name is blackened out, their would be various information in the rest of the report that would point towards her identity.

    If there truly was no police report and Michael and this Miami New Times Reporter were just making it up, then they would be putting themselves in serious legal trouble.

    Michael is doing the right thing here by not publishing.

  65. Thank you, Michael, for the info on Laurie and Brodersen. It seems implausible, but it is what it is. I remain offended by their silence, nonetheless.

    Despite my distrust, I also thank you for the info on Garcia. It does help. For the sake of his family and his witness to the world, I hope his life gets straightened out.

    As to Mary Danielson, I did find info. My memory was correct.
    She is on staff at CCAppleton. http://ccappleton.org/about/

    Jefferies seems to run the Emergent Watch site.

    Hope that helps.

  66. JM,

    We ran many stories many years ago about Dwight Douville and CC Appleton.

    They weren’t complimentary.

    It makes sense now, thank you.

  67. I am glad BC is no longer employed at the club for at least one primary reason. If he is indeed attracted to molesting young female children,( we have plenty of reason to believe the victim) a nightclub is a prime place to befriend single moms and their daughters who would be vulnerable to a charismatic con artist as himself. As the odds are slim he will face legal consequences, I hope the possibilities of him having access to future victims maybe somehow limited.

  68. JM,

    You have to remember that Coy lived outside the Orange County bubble, completely across the country.

    It’s not at all implausible knowing how busy all three men were and the distance between them.

  69. Well, to be accurate; I come out of the CC ft. laud mess. I was on the inside at one time. All I am saying, is if you are making charges publicly, u should be prepared to support them with evidence. I was not born yesterday and I know well that you can publish the report and black out all identifying characteristics of a person, as to validate your charge, otherwise, what you are saying essentially is I am full of baloney and guilty of libel, possibly slander and sinning against Christ (even).

    Now, I am not saying that the CC system is not a mess; I would be more than happy if they closed their doors-all of them. I understand that BC is getting the fruits of his sin and he deserves it. But thats between God and Him. The church (if one can call it that) dealt w/ him and he was defrocked. Anything else is in the civic circles now and we should move past it.

    I will finally say, I believe the article in the NT was a piece of garbage and just full of speculation. It as well had no support. I hate ch 7 news for the same reason. If you are going to report, be responsible to your people and support your accusations.

    be well in the Lord,

  70. Your welcome, Michael. I remember a fruitful exchange I had with you about Douville. Sadly, you said that some of your original information was lost. It’s been awhile since that exchange, though. I should have connected the dots sooner, myself. At least now there’s more light on these self-righteous critics.

  71. Scott,

    If only you knew.

    You don’t.

  72. JM,

    We’ve lost almost everything pre 2009…

  73. Hmmm. Okay, Michael. Maybe your assertions about the knowledge these men had about Coy are reasonable. I hope I won’t regret saying that, though. Suspicion has, heretofore, served me well, unfortunately. 🙂

  74. I do know….I am privy to the majority of issues. I had friends embedded deeply in the ministry. Nothing could surprise me. All I am saying is report responsibly so that this doesn’t cause a chain reaction of gossip and libel/slander. People are watching and people are parroting what you are reporting. Consider the doctrine of stumbling one’s brother.

  75. Funky Biscuit statement:

    Yesterday, through an article published by Miami New Times, we were made aware of certain allegations involving one of our associates Mr. Bob Coy. Neither The Funky Biscuit, nor any of its employees were aware of these allegations prior to yesterday. Because of the nature of these allegations, The Funky Biscuit has decided to terminate our consulting arrangement with Mr. Coy effective immediately.

  76. Now I remember. Yes, Michael. You did say that about your site. So sad. I don’t know much, but I know you, your site and a lot of the people who comment here have been through much trauma. I gleaned that pretty quickly. Hope all the original folks are doing okay.

  77. Scott,

    You don’t know how much damage publishing that police report would do.

    I will not have that on my conscience.
    You are entitled to your opinion.

  78. Alas, duty calls. Thank you for an edifying exchange, Michael.

  79. Scott, your #74 is totally off base. I have been here on this blog for about 6 years now. I don’t like some of what I see but that doesn’t make it untrue. In fact, never once have I seen a retraction because the facts weren’t correct for something that Michael has reported here. I have seen in many cases however, that he is not only the first to enlighten others but his facts are never in question.

    You say, “I do know….I am privy to the majority of issues. I had friends embedded deeply in the ministry…” if this is true, then you should be able to get a copy of the report yourself. Don’t come here boasting about who and what you know while rebuking other’s for not providing you with a report. I assure you that it exists or you wouldn’t have seen it referenced.

  80. when I eat meat offered to idols, I’ll consider the doctrine of stumbling my brother.

    when one considers stumbling a child, one should consider the warning of Jesus…something to do with ‘…better a millstone be tied around his neck and be tossed in the sea…’

  81. i believe that it is popular today to claim that all people who climb the ladder in the corporate world manifest the characteristics of a sociopath…
    if our churches have been using a corporate model “religiously” to advance their work …?…

    Jean’s post today ends in a quote from Micah 6:6-8 … very timely IMNSHO… does your pastor pass the Micah test? for that matter, do i? 🙂

  82. #74 Scott

    When, some months back, Michael was struggling as to what to do in this matter, he shared the police report with me. I, in turn, shared it with my personal lawyer (a former prosecutor) to solicit his advice.

    The report is real. The issues in publishing the report, even with the names redacted, are real.

    Michael has, quite rightly, followed legal advice and exercised best practice in this matter.

  83. Thank you Duane and covered.

    I’m not complaining or whining as I do this stuff willingly…but my life is hell when this stuff breaks.

    We do the very best we can even when we don’t know what the best truly is.

  84. “The file was, without a doubt, the most sickening document I had ever received… the police report detailing the allegations that have been made against Bob Coy” in the news story.

    Some things are hard to “unsee” once seen. I will take Michael’s word for it that he doesn’t need to be the one to release this. I prefer to be as harmless as a dove to this kind of depravity.

    I cannot help but THANK our Savior that He came and dies for one such as I.

  85. This whole story regarding Coy is so surreal. Why would the Lord (not blaming God) let him get away with this stuff, especially the abuse of a little girl, for so long? All the while standing in a pulpit preaching in a pulpit influencing people year after year.

    I just cannot imagine the agony that his ex-wife, children, parents if they’re still alive, are all going through, in addition to close friends, members of that church, etc.

    Is there hope for Bob Coy? I don’t mean to ever be restored to ministry, but just as a brother in Christ who can once again walk with fellow believers in Christ knowing that his sins are forgiven?

    The allegation of child abuse is repulsive, can that sin be forgiven and washed in the blood?

    I pray for him even now to turn to Christ. “Come and let us reason together, says the Lord”…

    Have mercy oh Lord, not only on Bob Coy, but on everyone who’s lives have been tainted and wounded by this matter.

  86. Can Bob be forgiven? Of course, we have a powerful savior. Is Bob Coy saved? Its not for me to judge, but the fruit says no. Should Bob Coy ever return to ministry in the spot light? NEVER. Should the Moses Model be rejected? ABSOLUTELY and immediately else more victims. Regarding the victims of Bob Coy and all the other victims of abuse in many forms from many moses model pastors, my heart goes out to all of you and please understand, most of these men are probably not genuine in their faith but they do play an amazing public persona that can fool even the most discerning.

  87. To what you said, Steve:

    “They profess to know God–to recognize, perceive and be acquainted with Him–but deny and disown and renounce Him by what they do; they are detestable and loathsome, unbelieving and disobedient and disloyal and rebellious, and [they are] unfit and worthless for good work (deed or enterprise) of any kind.” Titus 1:16, Amplified

  88. Sir you are the epitome of a gossiper.
    This site is nothing more than a gossip rag mag.
    You think you’re doing God a service but publishing peoples downfalls? You are nothing more than a self serving fake.

  89. Bo must still have one of those pamphlets: http://michaelnewnham.com/end-no-talk-rule/

    🙂

  90. There are always going to be people who think the worst of me.
    It’s ok…sometimes they’re right.

  91. “fake”
    gotta love that word

    “truth”
    try it out

    you won’t like the taste of it but you’ll end up healthier in the end

  92. Bo either needs an eye doctor or a shrink. Oh! Maybe he’s on a budget and has found that it’s cheaper to kill the messenger.

  93. Bo does raise a valid point… not sure Bo can explain it, from what the post was…
    however, we do need to have a clear understanding of the difference between gossip and necessary information… Michael does a fine job of knowing the difference
    what has been discussed on this thread has had no salacious overtones, has gone out of its way to not focus on the particulars of the sin, but rather on the perpetrator of events that have caused real miseries, real harm

    Michael has been used of God to comfort many victims of abuse within the walls of our churches and to wake up many of us Christians to how loosely we have held our standards – God’s standards…
    the devil doesn’t like Michael at all, so pray for the man – pray every day

  94. If religion cannot function with transparency it has lost it’s legitimacy.

  95. Bo @ 88: I don’t post very often, but I’ll post for this. I’m not going to say that there haven’t been times over the years that this site (particularly some of the comments) have just kind of come across as a giant moan/mud-slinging fest. There ARE times that it has come across to me kind of like people almost rejoicing in throwing stones at fallen leaders. And there are times where I’ve felt (again in the comments) that I’ve felt various people were maybe unfairly tarnished or even slandered.

    BUT your characterization of this site and Michael is flat out wrong from everything I’ve seen. Calling this site a “gossip rag mag” and Michael a “self serving fake” is off the charts lunacy (especially on your characterization of Michael). I won’t say (and I don’t think Michael would either) that everything’s been done perfect, but he is doing something valuable and worthwhile that very few are doing: bringing at least a measure of transparency and openness to what’s going on in the Body when much of the Church-world just wants to sweep things under the rug. It’s one of my greatest frustrations with the Church/ministries – we have all this drama and then nobody deals with it appropriately and things just get silenced and swept away – usually leaving behind a bunch of victims that then get turned off to Christianity in general (and thus usually Christ too). I’ve always appreciated about Michael that he is just calling for people to live in truth and transparency, and that if a mistake is made, to do the Bible thing and admit it and confess it, and then receive grace. He has made postings before about the importance of grace and the place for restoration too. But it seems a rare thing that people actually do the Bible thing and things get hidden and most of the Body would never know if not for someone like Michael to tell us. God doesn’t like gossip but He also doesn’t like lying and not living in truth. And I think He’s probably really tired of the deception in His Body by church leaders.

    Now with this specific article, the bottom line is Michael reported what had transpired against Coy with an investigation. Now after reading the article Michael linked to, I still have no way to know whether the allegations are/were true or not and I’m not going to judge Coy for it. The person who made them didn’t want to go any further with it apparently and wanted the matter dropped and nothing more came of it. Whatever their reasons were, that’s all that *I* know so I’m not going to judge that he did anything in that regards because I don’t have any compelling data to do so (Michael’s seen the police report but I have not). On this site people tend to assume the one making allegations are being honest (whereas often times unfortunately in some other circles, people assume the opposite). Many people here have suffered some form of abuse by spiritual leaders and so strong deference is usually given to one making allegations. However, humans are complex creatures, and just because someone makes an allegation does NOT definitely mean that it is true. There ARE people that will lie or fabricate stories for any number of reasons (perhaps sometimes even unknowingly – I’m not convinced that the whole fake memory thing isn’t legit sometimes). I’m not saying that’s what happened here. I’m saying that based on what I’ve seen that I don’t have any way to even halfway know one way or another. The fact that allegations were made but then requested to be dropped makes it even more of a “I really am not able to remotely discern the truth here” situation.

    But is Michael a gossip for reporting that allegations were made and there was an investigation? If you notice, he said that he’s sat on this story for a while, so it wasn’t like he was just wanting to sling mud around. He reported further information regarding a high profile individual in the Body that has already stepped down from pastoring amidst publicly acknowledged scandal.

    I don’t envy what Michael does (because I’m sure he never pleases anyone fully) and I don’t deny that there probably is a fine line sometimes between gossip and reporting for the betterment of the Body, but overall I think Michael probably walks this line about as well as could be expected. There are times I wish he would even report more than he does (i.e. actually providing the CC email Wayne Taylor sent rather than just mentioning there was one – I’d love to read the thing) – but maybe that’s partly my own fallen human nature just wanting to see the juicy details. We do all have that inside us too and need to keep it in check… (tho really, I do want to see that email! :))

  96. 94 is gold!

  97. +1 Jesus was crucified naked on a cross, it doesn’t get any more transparent than that.

  98. Thank you, Chris

    JD,
    To paraphrase Gandhi
    Jesus I have no problem with, but His followers, oy!

  99. Transparency with honesty. … can we label gossip as fake transparency?

  100. Gandhi is not the only unbeliever to use that excuse… sadly, we do provide the fodder

    For the record Gandhi’s got a problem with Jesus now, I suspect (says church lady Em). 😇

  101. “Transparency with honesty. … can we label gossip as fake transparency?”

    Perhaps the solution is to live a life where the response to gossip is, “Uh, so?”

    And, well, for me I’m going to have a little faith and give Jesus a little credit for probably bringing Gandhi home.

    o_O

  102. Bo and Scott

    CCFL ( a man by the name of Miller- representative of the church)made a statement that they knew of the police report.Biut it was after he left. So they knew. They acknowledge it!
    Do you understand what this statement implies?
    They said they became aware of it after he left the church.
    So why would you say the information here is not true?
    Please do your homework.
    You ought to be thankful someone has the guts to expose this evil.
    I applaud the host here for his involvement Perhaps your loyalty is blinding your judgement.
    I get it.
    No amount of truth will sway some .

  103. Bo does not know.

  104. CCFL statement makes it appear THEY reported it to authorities AFTER they knew if the info.
    So what exactly does that mean?
    Did they coax the victim to come forward?
    Did the victim contact the church?
    If that’s the case, is that why MD, CH, FG, and other major leadership left in 2015?
    And they have been sitting with this information since then?

  105. One last one.
    The statement is on the CCFL website under ” articles” if anyone wants to read it.

  106. Donner

    I’m nominating you for best comment of the month. Congrats

  107. Thank you, Jeff. I couldn’t resist.

  108. G @101 … I have read a Gandhi comment on Jesus (I could probably find it if needed, but not with this little Amazon fire) … he observed that Jesus was not The son of god, but was A son of god just as we all are … that shows an arrogance masquerading as humility IMV

    Now, that said, I will grant that God judges hearts and what we hear and see does not preclude a soul getting right with God in time to receive redemption … per Acts 17, perhaps

  109. Ghandi denied The Son, and was therfore by definition an “antichrist.” He was a Hindu through and through, and he contributed to the partition of India, resulting in untold suffering to this day.

  110. What the ???!?!?! Why are some people more concerned about what they call gossip than outright abuse?

  111. Donner @ 103, If Bo is shortened for his first name, maybe he knows exactly what is going on here.

  112. Regarding the allegation against BC, anybody who is accused of molesting a 4 year old continually for close to 10 years, the victim would have to be somebody that Coy had continual access too and could get away with this for so long. With this in mind, the circle of potential victims drastically gets smaller. This makes these allegations even more heinous in my opinion and the fact that the leadership council of CCA of which Bob Coy was on at the time and the prime leaders on this council that I mentioned before has said nothing, speaks volumes. I have lost all credibility in them.

  113. Hannah
    Your 102 & 104 are good points. Sorry you have to re-live the outrage of this entity.

    Steve
    112 – You’re right. Silence kills. Look what happened in Sutherland Springs, Texas.

  114. JM

    Thank you.
    It’s not what I have to relive it’s what the victim has to relive, and what my now grown kids had to live through. My son said to me yesterday that” everyone and everything from that place is bull–I don’t mind the language here bc it’s true.
    The leadership had so little discernment in so many matters that those in secular organizations would have had.
    God was mocked there. Fir my children at the time, and fir myself and my husband.
    Our unsaved family had another reason to not want Christianity.
    I do what I can to help others see that the Mosel model of no accountability is not only unbiblical but dangerous.
    To give any man that kind of power.. well we can look at our Bibles fir all the examples of men taking advantage of their position of authority.
    I have made enemies there for calling out sin.
    Our Pastor used to call us ” sin sniffers” if we did so.
    How ironic. He trained everyone well to keep their mouths shut in complete submission.

    I just keep doing what He calls me to do.
    I really do applaud Michael for his heart that would not rest in this matter. How can anyone not be sick over this?

  115. I rejoice in the ability of Jesus being able to continuously minister to each human on the planet who has ever lived or shall live and woo them to a sufficient trust in Him that His will is done in each life. That does not lessen the call for me or any of us to share Jesus, spread the Gospels and entreat any and all to fall in love with Him, but I refuse to entertain, even for a moment, that Jesus has reduced His love to such a limited and ineffectual theology.

  116. Why would someone in leadership rather be like Moses than like Jesus? Jesus voluntarily limited His power to become a man, why would a pastor then not be willing to voluntarily limit his power for the protection of the sheep? A true shepherd would lay down his life for the sheep.

  117. G says so many things that i sit here reading and amening, but 115 doesn’t make sense to me this morning … i hope it’s not dementia kicking in … ? …

  118. JD’s 116 i think that there are people in this world that would rather have Moses’ position, people for whom the question “why” has no explanation …

    having dealt with a family member that you did not want to get on the bad side of – very respectable and an achiever – there really are people in this world that cannot be confronted with truth, that will always come up with a slip sliding response and will do anything it takes to maintain their “position” – maybe it’s worth prayer for God to correct their thinking, but beyond that …?… dunno

  119. G, I hope you are right. What a beautiful, happy ending that would be.:)

  120. “I refuse to entertain, even for a moment, that Jesus has reduced His love to such a limited and ineffectual theology.”

    …to clarify, I refuse to look at any historical figure, in this case, Gandhi, and pronounce a Christless eternity. Classic Christianity leaves room for the blessed uncertainty of the unfair grace of God.

  121. Can we pronounce a “Christless” eternity for another human? No, all we can do is share with our fellow humans what God has revealed of Himself… I’m pretty sure that no one will be condemned for not accepting the Christ of whom they’ve never heard… God isn’t saving our corrupted flesh, He’s after our immortal souls and He is the only one qualified to judge hearts…
    But what troubles me is our Achilles heel – our pride… For instance, suppose you are the greatest artist who has or ever will live… there in your studio just completed is your latest masterpiece representing long hours, missed meals as you pursued your vision…
    You step back to study it, looking for any flaw and I come into the room, stand beside you for a few minutes and then I walk up to the completed work, pick up one your brushes as I comment, “I think it will look better with just a few tweeks before you present it to the public”
    This is the ground that I think those who knowingly tweek what God has revealed to mankind are standing on … shaky ground…

  122. John 20:29 – how do you reconcile Romans 1:18-20 with your statement, “I’m pretty sure no one will be condemned for not accepting the Christ of whom they’ve never heard”.

  123. Jeff, since I am not a teacher, I’ll answer your question as simply a Believer…
    Scripture does declare that God (all that entails as creator of all that is visible to us) God can be discerned from observing nature… I believe that there have been those outside of the small segment of the planet where God has worked, and revealed, His plan of salvation, who have observed the wonders of creation and said to themselves, “I know there has to be an awesome Being behind all this” Where their hearts and minds took that observation, where their souls now are is God’s call… To what extent this may refer to the descendents of Noah I can’t say…
    Since I think the flood washed over the whole earth, I must conclude that some of those descendents lost their belief in the God that brought them thru the flood…
    It seems reasonable that among the souls who had no knowledge of Christ, there would be those honest souls who would hope for a merciful creator
    Concocting a God and a religion with acts intended to please or placate their concept of this “unknown” god is another matter…
    whew… long winded for a non teacher … sorry
    This little tablet is terrible for proof reading, so I’ll just hope I said what I meant. 🐒

  124. Thanks for your thoughts.

  125. Jeff, if you waded thru that, thank you for reading it 🙂

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