Is Morning Star Community Church A Calvary Chapel?

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29 Responses

  1. Josh the Baptist says:

    Is CCGN anything other than an online database?

  2. Michael says:

    Josh,

    That’s a really good question for another article… 🙂

  3. Josh the Baptist says:

    While Broderson may or may not be a good guy, he certainly doesn’t seem to inspire men to follow like Chuck did.

  4. Michael says:

    Brodersen’s giftedness appears to be in missions…I’ll leave it at that for now…

  5. Josh the Baptist says:

    Right, and I know very little about him, his personality doesn’t seem to be one that would carry much weight if he tried to insert himself into these kind of situations. I could see the other church being like “Who are you? We didn’t even know we were on your database.”

  6. Shannon Kent says:

    Thanks you Michael! This only took 11 years from when I first found you guys! It has been BRUTAL to expose this, to say the least.

    Love to all! Shannon

  7. Michael says:

    Shannon,

    Everything here is at your disposal as needed…praying for you and ready to fight next to you as always.

  8. Corbatron says:

    My understanding/experience has been that this church has been in the CC database for decades, but as was true for a long time for many CC churches in Oregon, didn’t play with others. They did their own thing, Calvary-esq or not. They ran their own show. I never heard Scott’s name mentioned in any CC gatherings.

    As far as the CGN database/church list, didn’t a church have to request to be taken off of it, not added to it? They list was never maintained unless someone requested to be removed.

    If memory serves, they had more in common with Willow Creek than CC at one point. My only mental/memory connection to him was through a former WC guy at a church that was/is a CC. I never knew why they were affiliated. That’s not a judgment statement, that’s a lack of info statement.

  9. John 20:29 says:

    This isnt my fight, but having just come from reading some of the links, i was made aware that the word used in our English translation describing woman as a “helper” is translated everywhere else in military terms… Beware, if ever we women come to accept the fact that we, too, are described in warrior terms 😏

  10. Kevin H says:

    The sexual abuse scandal, in and of itself, is the big problem here far and away, regardless of CC affiliation or not.

    With that said, it is interesting that this church shows up only on the CCGN locator site and not the CCA locator site. Both sites started with the same database with the exact same churches and it would seem that the only standard practice to get removed from either site is to ask for removal. (Except for CC Costa Mesa which supposedly and just so conveniently got removed from the CCA site by a “clerical” error.)

    I wonder if this church actually made the effort in the past to be removed from CCA’s list or if CCA has actually taken quick effort to “discipline” the church by removing them. It would seem that the large majority of the CC churches remain in both databases with most of the exceptions being those that have asked for removal from the CCGN site, as they had been prompted by some of the Old Guard CCA leadership to do so. It would seem that the other way around, nobody from CCGN is prompting churches to ask for removal from CCA.

  11. Col46 says:

    Perhaps the church in question is not a CC and joined CGN as many non CC churches have done.

  12. Michael says:

    I have new information that this has been a CC for many years.

  13. Corbatron says:

    Did you get that from #8 above? 😉

  14. Captain Kevin says:

    Shannon…as in the Cannon? Or am I thinking of someone else?

  15. Michael says:

    Corby…it helped… 🙂

  16. Michael says:

    CK,

    The very same Cannon…

  17. Captain Kevin says:

    Shannon, so glad to see you here. Kudos to you for your perseverance throughout this disgusting ordeal. God bless you!

  18. Nathan Priddis says:

    Michael.
    Thank you for posting this stuff. I mean, it’s sewage, but, it’s important to say what happened. It feels like it gives value to those who are wronged and then forgotten, when the wrong is acknowledged.
    It’s doubtful anyone became a believer with the intention of testifying in regards to the crap laying around the Kingdom of God. But a truthful witness is one who states what they saw, heard, or know, and screw the opposition and consequences.

  19. Shannon the Cannon says:

    Bill Ritchie from CrossRoads was the person who encouraged Scott Nelson to start a CC after he left his AG roots. Ken Engelking did his training for ministry under Bill, and Bill was even a part of the ‘disciplinary action’ in one of Kens alleged restorations. Deep CC Roots at Morning Star.

  20. DavidM says:

    I haven’t seen Scott at any CC conferences or events for nearly 30 years. They may be “affiliated” in name but I doubt if so in practice.

  21. JoelG says:

    “I’m so sad to think that the church’s reputation was more important than honesty and healing,” – Alleged Victim

    This is the problem with large churches in a community. It may not be fair, but it makes me wonder how often this kind of thing goes on in other large churches where “leaders” are too important to face consequences that the average joe citizen would have to face.

  22. Corby says:

    Since the question that is the title and point of this post is, “Is Morning Star Community Church A Calvary Chapel?” I want to restrict my observations that point.

    While Bill may have known Scott back in the day, I’m pretty sure Bill didn’t encourage or discourage Scott to start a CC, or even to start a church. That was Scott’s decision.

    I started going to Crossroads at the end or shortly after Ken E. was there. Bill was the senior pastor, but Ken didn’t “train for ministry” under Bill. That’s not how Bill worked. I know because some years later I was also an intern at Crossroads like Ken. Bill always left the training of the interns to the staff/ministry pastor to whom they were assigned. Bill himself was never hands-on. It would be inaccurate for me to say that I trained for ministry under Bill. I do know who Ken trained under. Even then it’s a moot point.

    To say that these things equal deep CC roots just isn’t the case. Reason being, Crossroads was a CC affiliate, but they were not a CC in terms of church culture. I never heard the words “Calvary Chapel” while going there from 85-93. In fact, one night Bill announced it was Chuck and Kay Smith’s 50th wedding anniversary. I looked around the room to see who he was talking about. When I went to CCBC 93-95, no one there had ever heard of Crossroads or Bill, and it was a significant church even then. Crossroads existed for a number of years before it affiliated with CC.

    I’m pretty sure that MStar got on the CC list even before CCOF existed, before there was any kind of process, and they have been on the list ever since. In fact, on the church’s “Our Story” page there is no mention of ever being in or currently being a part of CC/CGN.

    I don’t say any of this to slight MStar. Nor am I trying to defend CC or Crossroads of the 1980s. If CGN leaves the church on its page it does not equal affirming the church. If they take them off it doesn’t equal siding with the news story. As has been seen in previous stories like this, the expectation is that CC would mount its own investigation, take sides, make a judgement, and take action. For better or for worse, that process just doesn’t exist.

    So, “Is Morning Star Community Church A Calvary Chapel?” Given this specific scenario, I don’t think it makes a difference. Unless there is other evidence of a tighter relationship and a reason for accountability between CC and MStar, I don’t see that it has any bearing on the story.

  23. Scooter Jones says:

    I went to Morning Star’s website and Ken Engleking sermons are still posted.

    http://subspla.sh/aun5zrt

  24. Shannon Kent says:

    Hey Corby!

    Thanks for the clarification! Scott always gave props to Bill for starting a CC and for suggesting Ken come to MSCC as our youth pastor. I do not hold Bill in any disregard – I highly doubt he knew the depth of this. When Ken went to receive disciplinary action from Bill – my guess is it was not for what is listed in the article, what was told to some people is that Ken had been going to bars with youth staff, not the relationship he had or any of the other debauchery that he was a part of. Scott was very coy in how he shared and hid all of this. I actually allowed the article to print, because I wanted Scott’s involvement in hiding all of this exposed.

    Ken trained under a guy named Dave – I think he went to start another church in Vancouver? In 1987 in high school I went to a youth camp with Crossroads – right after Ken was hired at Morning Star.

    I conquer that deep roots is definitely an over exaggeration – considering what you are saying here – I guess the deep roots are just something Scott liked to grasp onto for a while.

    Corby, I wonder if you and I actually know each other? Suddenly your name is familiar. LOL.

    Michael actually offered to connect me to Bill years ago to discuss this – but I wasn’t at a good place in my healing to do so. I also feared retribution from Morning Star – which is happening now. Prayers appreciated for the families of all of us – Ken’s supporters are going at us in the lowest way possible.

    Love you all!

  25. Corbatron says:

    Shannon – it’s possible we know each other. I’m better with faces than with names. If you are interested you could reach me via corby at corbystephens.com

  26. The Least of These says:

    ‘Protecting the church … covering up the sin’

    This sums up the legacy of Calvary Chapel. This is an old mantra, one developed in the 70’s when THE beloved leader of immense power refused to admit the damaging evidence against him for going off the moral reservation was true. Instead, back in the day, the board prayed and decided to protect the church and cover up the sin while the offender sat in deafening silence. And thus the precedent was set, repeated over and over in the ensuing years in mulitforme (the spelling is incorrect for a reason denoting malignancy). I have no direct knowledge if this Morningsidechurch was a CC- I don’t even want to take the time to verify it. I will just take Michael’s word. And…their response is the same as a CC. Keep it quiet, deal with it behind closed doors, avoid counseling, blame the woman in some way (ie: tank top seduction) and then claim they did all this covering up for the sake of the people sitting in the pews.

    The CC house is imploding. It has been for while. Morningside is but another familiar theme in the history of a church that began as a mystery and has now ended up as a mere notch on the on the bedpost of Christian history. Samson cut his hair. The only thing you can do now is get your hazmat suit on…

  27. pstrmike says:

    @1
    Josh, CGN is there for pastors and churches who want, and make effort to be involved in some way. So far at this point, our participation has not extended beyond being on the database. THat’s not to say anything negative toward Brodersen, it is a matter of priorities, resources and time. I’m actually reconsidering SBC as a group to interact with, and if we do go that route, we are not sure whether we remain CGN or not. That is also not attributing anything negative toward CGN, other than local SBC involvement may suit us better as a church. We’re still praying and I haven’t rule out other options as well.

    @8
    Corbatron,
    ” but as was true for a long time for many CC churches in Oregon, didn’t play with others. They did their own thing,”

    Lot’s of reasons for that, some of it personalities, some of it a matter of economics. Many of these guys outside the PDX metro area were still working a real job, and didn’t have time for the Boy’s club. The Calvary ethos in Oregon appears to be very Southern California, and looks different than the moderate expression of Northwest evangelical doctrine and practice. Perhaps Bill understood this years ago (he’ll have to speak for himself here) and might explain why Crossroads appeared more culturally in sync with its environment than a California transplant.

  28. Josh the Baptist says:

    Thanks for the info, pstrmike.

  29. Jim Jacobson says:

    Wow, what a story… someone called it sewage.. amen to that. I went to this church once or twice while visiting family in the area. I went because it was a Calvary Chapel church, but I remember thinking that it actually was nothing like a Calvary Chapel in practice.
    The story does highlight, once again, the absolute need for accountability and for some structure outside of the local fellowship, If I was the father of one of these girls, I would be tempted to introduce the “pastors” to some friends of mine. As Mike alluded to in @27 the SBC has some things structurally that are more dialed in, which has made it an increasingly more attractive affiliation.

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