Is Spousal Abuse Grounds For Divorce?

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80 Responses

  1. Gary says:

    The simp says “YES!”

  2. Gary says:

    If a woman came to me asking what she should do about her husband beating her I’d advise her to get out with the kids asap. Get a legal separation. Give the man time to repent. Make him show it over time before she considers a reconciliation. If he doesn’t show that he’s changed, divorce him.

  3. Beating your wife is breaking covenant… she should divorce you.

  4. Michael says:

    Gary,

    I agree…even if there are no kids involved.

  5. Paigemom says:

    I admit I haven’t listened to the podcast yet…but will.

    I am so thankful to be part of a church that affirms the three A’s….Adultery, Abuse and Abandonment are Biblical grounds for divorce.

    How insane it is that nearly all church goers (even non believers) can recite Malachi 2:16 “God hates divorce” ,but how few know the rest of the verse that states, “I hate a man who covers himself with violence like a garment”…. Classic case of knowing part of a complete verse, not to mention the context .

    It’s taken me a decade to recognize how emotionally and spiritually abusive my former marriage was. I have now strangely found myself in the position of advising women that they are Biblically free to leave an abusive situation. God brings them to my doorstep…. It is heartbreaking to see how abuse blinds women and destroys their hearts, yet in desiring to please God, they feel obliged to stay in an abusive situation because “God hates divorce”…

  6. Michael says:

    BD,

    Yes!

  7. Michael says:

    Paigemom,

    One of those you saved found their way to me to say thank you out of nowhere one day…I will never forget that.
    She has a hope and a future now, because you spoke truth, grace, and love into her life.

  8. Gary says:

    In a case of ‘He said-she said’ there will be evidence. There will be bruises or worse. There will be friends who know.

  9. “How insane it is that nearly all church goers (even non believers) can recite Malachi 2:16 “God hates divorce” ,but how few know the rest of the verse that states, “I hate a man who covers himself with violence like a garment”…. Classic case of knowing part of a complete verse, not to mention the context .”

    That is well said. Thanks for the reminder!

  10. Paigemom says:

    BTW, abuse takes other forms beside ‘beating’…..

  11. Gary says:

    The police have abandoned the hood. Maybe they fear for their lives. Tracy Chapman is Dylan with a serious message.

  12. Paigemom says:

    Gary, there may not be obvious evidence. There is a lot of (undeserved) shame involved in being abused…. women hide it.

  13. Gary says:

    My church has very strict rules about children’s ministry.

  14. Kevin H says:

    I don’t have time right now to listen to Trueman’s podcast, so I don’t know into what nuance he may go to comment on it.

    On the topic in general, I have never thought that a spouse that is being physically abused (which is probably the woman 99% of the time) should stay with the abuser. Whether or not she could seek a divorce on biblical grounds, I have never been studied enough to give a certain answer to that. But I could never see how the spouse should have to stay in the abusive situation.

    In my mind, I guess where things can get gray is when the abuse is not physical. What if the abuse is some form of or combination of emotional/mental/spiritual abuse? And to what degree? Certainly there would be cirumstances where these types of abuses could be more severe than others. For a spouse that feels they are undergoing a low level of say emotional abuse, is that grounds for separation or divorce? If not, at what point would we say the abuse is great enough where they have biblical grounds for separation or divorce? I don’t know. I don’t mean to distract from the main topic, but they are just questions running through my head.

    I know of a couple that recently went through a divorce. I am distanced from most of the details, but I do know a large contributing factor was the man was emotionally abusive and would at times get violent in his anger, but never actually physically abused his wife. Yet the wife feared it could someday result in physical abuse to her. Additionally, the violence and anger was in large part a result of a mental disorder the husband had. A mental disorder that he was not very forthcoming about before they got married. So was she on biblical grounds to pursue the divorce? Like I said, I don’t know nearly all the details, so I don’t pass judgment one way or another. But it is a curious case to think about.

  15. Gary says:

    I hear you, Paigemom. Those cockroaches who mentally abuse their wives hide from the light. If there are any of those in my church they’re doing a dang good job of hiding under the toilet. I’m more of a quiet observer than an outspoken man but the times I’ve seen evil I’m a bulldog.

  16. Michael says:

    KevinH,

    I’m pressed for time, but Trueman also points to the need for the church leadership (pastors and elders) to carefully investigate and do so thoroughly.
    Those judgments need to be made prayerfully and carefully.

  17. Rob Murphy says:

    As a pastor, If I stop vandalism of a church building but allow someone to assault the temple of the Holy Spirit, I am an idiot.
    This is my personal conviction. I knocked a guy out of his chair during counseling because he kept calling his wife a very profane set of names. I warned him twice and then knocked him over. Mrs. Paige is right; there are many forms of abuse and I won’t tolerate any of them.
    I would rather err on the side of grace by being too aggressive than violate grace by my inaction.

  18. Gary says:

    Love the thread. bbl

  19. Gary says:

    You go Rob!! Love it!

  20. Paigemom says:

    Strangely, the emotionally abused wife is often the most gorgeous “perfect” one….the one who is ‘required’ to be ‘as slim as possible, as tan as possible, as blonde as possible’….

    Not matter what she does, she won’t be treated with kindness. She’ll keep trying, keeping a good public front, blaming herself, losing her own heart only to eventually be shunned and blamed by her ‘respectable’ husband and church.
    If she goes for counseling at church, she’ll be told to submit, pray more, read the Bible more.

  21. “Is Spousal Abuse Grounds For Divorce?”

    Abuse, in and of itself, is grounds for distance and separation in :: any :: relationship.
    Physical abuse, in my world, ENDS the relationship. To treat the love of one’s life in such a shabby manner completely destroys a bond which should be lifelong.

    Because the church remains stuck taking advice only from men, which men who are revered from the Bronze age, there needs to be some evolved thinking in working through this issue. Paul’s wife was M.I.A.. Jesus didn’t take an Earthly companion and the allegory of The Church being The Bride of Christ gives poetic inspiration, but the best and most interesting writing is The Song of Songs because it is about passion. Passion can overlook stupidity and harshness. I don’t think passion can forgive physical beatings.

    My parents were verbally, not physically abusive to each other, they verbally sparred with the most terse and harsh tones. It motivated me to restart my adult life 450 miles from them, to seek out a partner who is kind and patient. Yet my parents were married 52 years, faithful to each other the whole time, and that imprint is greater than any strife. Their passion kept them together, along with their commitment. My wife and I have learned what it takes to create and enjoy a 33 year marriage, because we work through the issues which arise.

    To each couple who struggle, may each find their unique solution to fall back in love each and every day.

  22. Nonnie says:

    This is such an important issue. Thank you for addressing it. I can’t believe that there are men who claim they follow Christ, yet would send a physically abused woman back to her husband. That is pure evil.

  23. Jim says:

    I haven’t read Trueman yet, but I hope that he goes beyond pastors and elders.

    Pastors should say very clearly from the pulpit, “if he raises his hand, call the police”.

    In counseling couples where the husband is scaring the wife with his “anger issues”, I’ve said, in front of the husband, “Mary, if he yells at you or the kids, call me. If he raises his hand, call 911, then call me.”

    I’d then meet with the guy alone, and explain the difference between sin patterns that we process out of, and others that we amputate. There is an appropriate time to say, “John, you can never do this again. If you have any doubt that you’ll be able to put off your anger around your family, then move out now.”

    There is a time for compassionate, patient counsel, and a time to shove James in a man’s face and say, “this says that you’re a selfish baby who lashes out when he doesn’t get his way. Ready to grow up now?”.

    All of this is all nip it in the bud stuff. If he’s already hit her, call the cops and get a restraining order.

    I also like Rob’s approach 🙂 , but the church I worked for wouldn’t allow me to do that.

  24. Paigemom says:

    Happy to read of brave pastors here. Thank you..

  25. PP Vet says:

    Every marriage is different, and there is no one-size-fits-all solution.

    The scriptural justification, which nobody here seems to care about, is that physical abuse can be interpreted as “constructive abandonment”.

    This invokes the well-known text on how to deal with abandonment: “But if a spouse who doesn’t believe chooses to leave, then let them leave. … the Christian husband or wife is not required to stay with them”.

    This was once explained very clearly by Pat Robertson.

    That is perhaps a cue for some loser who could not carry Pat’s jockstrap with both hands to troll up some alleged miscue by this great man.

    Nevertheless Pat explained it well one day.

  26. PP Vet says:

    I assume that is all explained by Carl Trueman in the podcast.

  27. Nonnie says:

    Thankfully, my husband is kind, gentle, loving and has never touched me other than in love.

    However, I dated a young man in college that was so charismatic, charming, talented and very giving….but, he physically abused me. The first time it happened we were having a silly argument over nothing, but it was as if he became a different person, his eyes raged, he was strangling me and then as fast as it began, he stopped, profusely apologised, cried, but said I made him do it. Of course I believed him….until it happened again and again. After 3 or 4 times, I realised, “No! This was NOT my fault, this was his problem!” I broke up with him, He threatened to kill himself and I felt horribly guilty, but I was not going back to him. No one was going to treat me that way. He left town and married someone within a few months. I have often wondered what that poor woman went through.
    As years went by I read stories about abused women and there seems to be a pattern with these abusers. They believe it’s not their fault, the woman made them do it, the woman is crazy, etc. etc. Eventually it will turn into an OJ Simpson scene.This is why I feel so passionately about spousal abuse.
    Thank you pastors ! Thank you for supporting the abused.

  28. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    I say physical, verbal or emotional abuse is at the very least grounds for separation and in a Lot of cases Divorce. This doesn’t mean that one should go get married again just remain single. Verbal abuse and emotional abuse can take serious tolls leading one to severe depression. I say run and don’t look back life is too short. Believe me abuse goes both ways, dint get stuckon the archaic Idea that men primarily do it.

  29. Ricky Bobby says:

    Rob, that’s awesome! Good job.

    “I would rather err on the side of grace by being too aggressive than violate grace by my inaction.”–Murph

    That’s gold.

  30. ” dint get stuckon the archaic Idea that men primarily do it.”

    Primarily, it IS men. Wive’s can be abusive too, but it is far more prevalent among men.

  31. covered says:

    While meeting with several pastors in Iraq, they described how there are women in their church who were married to Muslim men and who have converted to Christianity. They now get abused regularly at the hands of their husbands. These pastor’s (many who have converted themselves), wanted to know how to deal with this. Unfortunately in Muslim countries such as Iraq, Iran and even Middle Eastern countries who claim to be Christian, if there’s a divorce due to conversion (which is illegal), then the Muslim parent automatically gets the children and the money. Because the laws favor the Muslims, abused spouses usually stay in the abusive relationship.

    I only bring this up because here in our country we have laws to protect from abuse but in other countries, the problem can never be resolved without further abuse even by the Government.

  32. Ricky Bobby says:

    From a very literal and simple read of the bible, the bible doesn’t say spousal abuse or child abuse is specifically wrong, which leaves the door open for the bastards to create an apologetic that squirms out of their abusiveness as sin.

    They’ll redefine it as “not abuse” and point to scripture quoting “stripes” and the barbaric treatment of women and children in the old testament and even new testament and hammer away on the Pauline “submit” verses etc.

    The bible is like that, it is what it is. you can pretty much make it say whatever you want due to the contradictory narratives and examples it presents.

    My conscience tells me that physical spousal abuse and child abuse is wrong and always has been, no matter what the old testament bible says and no matter what Paul the Apostle says.

    If you hurt women and children physically, emotionally, sexually, you are a total bastard and getting knocked out of your chair is kind compared to what I would like to do to you.

  33. Scott says:

    #26 “That is perhaps a cue for some loser who could not carry Pat’s jockstrap with both hands to troll up some alleged miscue by this great man.”

    Robertson still wears a jockstrap? Isn’t he a little old for that now?

  34. Ricky Bobby says:

    covered, the ex-muslim women are in a tough place. The muslims keep it real and literal and take an Old Testament approach to man’s superiority to women and children. The muslims are just acting out the literal examples and teachings of the Old Testament bible…and even parts of the New Testament.

    The fact is, the Hebrew culture was at one time very brutal to women and children and it was endorsed by commands from God in the bible. That’s the truth.

  35. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    Physically primarily men, emotional and verbal, men and women are pre eqaul in being abusive. Lets not turn this into a man bashing oprah show

  36. Ricky Bobby says:

    “The social and legal position of an Israelite wife was inferior to the position a wife occupied in the great countries round about… all the texts show that Israelites wanted mainly sons to perpetuate the family line and fortune, and to preserve the ancestral inheritance… A husband could divorce his wife; women on the other hand could not ask for divorce… the wife called her husband Ba’al or master; she also called him adon or lord; she addressed him, in fact, as a slave addressed his master or subject, his king. The Decalogue includes a man’s wife among his possessions… all her life she remains a minor. The wife does not inherit from her husband, nor daughters from their father, except when there is no male heir. A vow made by a girl or married woman needs, to be valid, the consent of the father or husband and if this consent is withheld, the vow is null and void. A man had a right to sell his daughter. Women were excluded from the succession.”

    -Roland de Vaux, archaeologist and priest

  37. Ricky Bobby says:

    You guys can avoid the truth, which is intellectually dishonest and not Godly. The fact is, the Old Testament and much of the New Testament practice and culture promotes the kind of abusive attitude of men toward women and children that is taught, practiced and endorsed in the bible.

    Only Jesus turned it on its ear with a “new law” the Law of Love.

    We must rely on our Conscience and what is truly good and recognize the facts about making the bible “god”.

  38. @ 36 – Sol, I would just like to see men taking responsibility without pointing a finger towards someone else.

    RIcky – any chance we could not have this thread be part of you crusade on the Bible?

  39. Ricky Bobby says:

    It is only when we strongly reject the bible as “god” and call out the terrible examples and teachings it promotes in some of its pages, that we will be able to remove the apologetic of Abuse that is prevalent in the Christian* community.

    I grew up in it, I understand the dynamic better than most. There is a sense of “it’s not abuse!” because of the Old Testament and even parts of the New Testament practice, teaching and example.

  40. Ricky Bobby says:

    It’s a crusade against abuse Josh. Unfortunately, the bible is used to apologize for much abuse that occurs in the Christian* church.

  41. Ricky Bobby says:

    The bible is often used to support child abuse here:

    Pr 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. Pr 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. Pr 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Pr 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Pr 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

    The word rod is “shebet” in Hebrew. This word is defined as following in Strong’s Hebrew Lexicon #7626: rod, staff, branch, offshoot, club, sceptre, tribe a. rod, staff b. shaft (of spear, dart) c. club (of shepherd’s implement) d. truncheon, sceptre (mark of authority) e. clan, tribe

    Strong’s definition: From an unused root probably meaning to branch off; a scion, for example literally a stick (for punishing, writing, fighting, walking, ruling, etc.) or figuratively a clan.

    King James Word Usage tribe 140, rod 34, sceptre 10, staff 2, miscellaneous 4

    Matteh is another Hebrew word for rod. This word can mean branch as a vine and is not used here. Maqqel, which has no meaning that can be applied here and is not used in this Scripture anyway. Choter, another Hebrew word, is branch, twig, rod and is not used here.

    Therefore, the focus is on shebet.

    There are 31 other Scriptures using this word, translated “rod” in the KJV. These verses will be grouped into categories according to how the word “rod” (translated from “shebet”) is used.”

  42. Ricky Bobby says:

    Basically, many use the bible to justify “beating your children with rods”…it happens all the time and our Government defines it as child abuse.

    The apologetic goes, “well, we HAVE to obey the bible over the Government!”

    This is the truth whether you acknowledge it or not.

    Mistreating your wife is also apologized for and I can support that from the bible as well.

  43. So you are saying the majority of the bible is not only fallible, but actually evil?

  44. Ricky Bobby says:

    The bible is used all the time to support the male dominance over women, even today:

    “For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.” (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

    “For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.” (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

    “Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (I Timothy 2:11-14)

    “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

    The fact is the bible presents a lot of stuff that is used to support spousal abuse, child abuse and male dominance over women.

    I know, I grew up with it. It is taught and makes the family feel the stuff is normative and justified by the bible.

    The fact is, the bible can be interpreted any number of ways and presents a lot of contradictory narratives that help support much of the abuse.

  45. dswoager says:

    Josh, it’s almost as if evil people will use just about anything to carry out evil.

  46. Nonnie says:

    RB, just read in the Bible how Jesus treated women and then do likewise. That is all I need to know. That is also what the pastors here are doing.

  47. Ricky Bobby says:

    Josh asked, “So you are saying the majority of the bible is not only fallible, but actually evil?”

    You tell me, is this good or evil?

    Leviticus 25:44-46
    New International Version (NIV)
    44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

  48. I know Michael isn’t going to be here much, so I’ll avoid the back and forth out of respect for everyone else here. However, i cannot allow such vicious attacks on the Word of God to go unchallenged to all who may be reading this page.

    Ricky Bobby is absolutely wrong in his estimation of Scripture and what it says. He is either unable to properly read it, or is willfully bending it to make it appear to be something it is not. Either way, you don’t have to accept his conclusions, even though he speaks with an heir of authority. He has none. He is ignorant to the things of God’s Word.

    I’ll be done here for the day, because an argument with him would derail everything else, and would be fruitless because he can’t be taught. However, if any of his arguments against Scripture bother you, and you would like a good solid defense, please feel free to email me at josh@joshhamrick.net .

  49. Ricky Bobby says:

    Josh, is it “good’ or “evil” to execute your son with stones?

    If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. — Deuteronomy 21:18-21

  50. Ricky Bobby says:

    Interesting that the sins of the son getting murdered with stones by his parents and elders of the city is for “gluttony”…yet Christians* rail on homosexuals as if that’s the worst sin of all.

  51. Ricky Bobby says:

    Josh said, “Ricky Bobby is absolutely wrong in his estimation of Scripture and what it says.”

    You’re dodging the questions. Is the stuff “good” or “evil”? You are intellectually dishonest, which is a form of lying, which is being “in sin” and the bible says the devil is the father of lies.

  52. Ricky Bobby says:

    Josh said, ” He is either unable to properly read it, or is willfully bending it to make it appear to be something it is not.”

    I just read it. It says what it says. No spin, no twisting. Is the stuff it commands in those verses “good” or “evil” Josh?

    You can’t answer honestly.

  53. Scott says:

    Wow, the floodgates are open…again.

  54. Ricky Bobby says:

    The truth is, most of you are willing to lie to protect your mythical view of the bible as perfect and all “good”

  55. Nonnie says:

    RB, you are an abuser and don’t even know it.

  56. Ricky Bobby says:

    I am not an “abuser” measured by any Standard and authority in the known universe. I am articulating an opinion based on the bible and what it states explicitly in some passages.

    I know it is upsetting to the Dogmatists who have an unholy view of the bible as “god” but it is what it is. I am not being abusive by expressing what I believe and why I believe it.

  57. Ricky Bobby says:

    Nonnie, your comment and false accusation is abusive as it takes away from the real meaning of the word “abuse” as I experienced it growing up.

    It is akin to crying “racist!” pointed at a George Zimmerman, when there are real racists out there who hurt people.

    You devalue the meaning of the term when you paint someone who is merely expressing their opinion on a blog forum where opinion is invited. I am offended at the accusation and I ask you to repent of it.

  58. Nonnie says:

    You are abusing your use of this community. You have been asked to not do this, you have been moderated, let back in and then just continue to rant and rant on things that we are not interested in. You have driven people away as much as a slap in the face would. You are abusing the privilege of commenting here when you have been asked repeatedly to not hijack the threads. Please, have some common courtesy.

  59. Ricky Bobby says:

    Nonnie, the topic of the thread is spousal abuse and child abuse and I am sharing my opinion of how the bible is used to promote and support spousal abuse and child abuse. You are wrong.

  60. Steve Wright says:

    One thing for sure. A thread is open that could give women readers who suffer abuse from their husbands the encouragement that there are many pastors, as well as Christian leaders, who do not support staying in such abuse – and if THEIR pastor does, they would know there is an alternative and they should find another church.

    But rather than get that message out – there is a narcissist here who could care less. He does not care about abuse. He does not care about women who might come across this thread, if not today, then someday in the future through google.

    He cares about himself only.

    With Michael taking him off moderated status during the vacation, that grace is going to be taken advantage of to the fullest. This is the only place he can get the attention he craves – certainly not his own blog. .

    In the attacks on God’s word in saying the Bible supports such abuse, he is nothing less than a tool of the enemy.

    In seeking to destroy what is a good here, he is a tool of the enemy.

    And I don’t say that lightly. In fact, I doubt I have ever said it here about anyone.

    I would add my agreement to the others who support divorce of abusers, and I can give some Scripture that supports it for anyone reading who might wonder – but there is too much swine around here for such pearls….and it is quite a shame.

    This is my lone comment. I’ll be back when Michael returns.

  61. Ricky Bobby says:

    Nonnie, they aren’t tactics, I’m not really fighting a battle against anything anymore, I’m just sharing my opinion after the experiences. I lost that battle long ago (with BG and CC etc).

    Now, I’m just honest about what I’ve learned from the experience and what I read in the bible “simply”

  62. Ricky Bobby says:

    The truth is the bible is used by many in Calvary, in every denomination and flavor of Christian* to support the abuse of women and children, and that is wrong in my opinion.

    From a very literal and non-extra-biblical take, Trueman’s argument is not in the bible. He is adding to the scripture and being very Liberal about his interpretation of the passages and his apologetic for spousal abuse and divorce.

    Now, I agree with Trueman, but it is a very non-literal non-conservative take, it is a very liberal take and requires Conscience and today’s view of things to overcome what is taught explicitly in the bible.

  63. Nonnie says:

    RB, I have lots of questions, struggles with the Bible (about how women are treated, women teaching, women in leadership, God’s sovereignty vs man’s free will, and other questions) ….but I have no doubts about Jesus and He is Lord. He died, rose again and is coming again. In Him I am forgiven, redeemed, loved and have eternal life. I can rest in that….the questions can be answered in ” Love God and love others.” I can live with that.

  64. Ricky Bobby says:

    Nonnie, this is very abusive of you and it isn’t true: ” if you treat your mother like you treat this community, (ranting, haranguing, attacking over and over and over)”

    Shame on you.

  65. Ricky Bobby says:

    Nonnie, I agree with regards to the Jesus of the Gospels and Law of Love, I do not agree with the OT Jesus and the Revelation “kill with the sword” Jesus. There are two Jesus’s presented in the bible and I am in love with the one who is Savior, Redeemer, Loving Messiah.

  66. Nonnie says:

    Well, I am very glad that it isn’t true of you with your mother. Good for you. I apologise. Now please do the same for us.

  67. Ricky Bobby says:

    Steve Wrong said, “But rather than get that message out – there is a narcissist here who could care less. He does not care about abuse. He does not care about women who might come across this thread, if not today, then someday in the future through google.”

    Very abusive of you pastor Steve. You’re a man I have come to have zero respect for the more you express yourself. You are intellectually dishonest and a real jerk a lot of the time. You may have been generous to John Duncan for a time, but in reviewing my private convos with you and reviewing your history on the PhxP, you are not someone I’d ever sit under as pastor.

  68. Ricky Bobby says:

    Steve Wrong, you did nothing significant to take a clear stand against domestic abuse in your own denomination of Calvary Chapel. Don’t preach at me about your opinion I’ve done something to derail a blog thread that hardly anyone reads and that it will be some sort of obstacle to women being abused.

    You’re a total idiot and you should be ashamed of yourself for being such a “not my problem” politician when you had the chance to do something significant in your own Group.

    You should be ashamed to even speak to the issue publicly b/c you have sat silently by when you had the opportunity to take a public stand and do something.

    You are no Rob Murphy, you are a coward and a selfish “not my problem” politician who cares only about his own church as “independent” and is afraid to lose people and money as reasons not to take on Calvary Chapel, then rebukes me for expressing my opinion on a blog thread as somehow an obstacle to women being abused.

    What a snake you are.

  69. Nonnie says:

    Yes, that’s what I thought…….I’m out

  70. Ricky Bobby says:

    “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” –Jesus Christ

  71. Ricky Bobby says:

    I’ll summarize my opinion of the thread topic as this and then bow out and take the “abusive” comments directed at me by some of you:

    1. The bible supports child abuse and spousal abuse and the bible is used by many in the Christian* church to support their view they are NOT abusing.

    2. The bible does not explicitly grant divorce for spousal abuse nor does the bible define spousal abuse specifically.

    3. While I agree with Trueman’s take, it is a very Liberal approach to what the bible says “simply” and requires extra-biblical thinking through Conscience and the way we approach things in our culture today, which is not very Fundamentalist and Conservative and “plain meaning” and Sola Scriptura. It does, however, make sense and is in line with my Conscience, even though the bible seems to teach otherwise on this issue.

  72. Ricky Bobby says:

    …and if you disagree with me, you are going to hell!!!! (read in best fundamentalist conservative preacher voice) 😆 🙂

  73. Michael says:

    I just had to turn around and drive all the way back home to deal with this mess.
    My son and I thank you profusely.
    Unbelievable.
    This was my birthday present from his family…thank you for ruining it.

    I thought this was an important statement that had been made and deserved wide circulation and conversation.
    Evidently, your agenda is more important and your blog simply can’t contain all you have to say over and over again.

    Comments about family are off limits, period.
    I have removed the comments about RB’s family and I will now try to quiet my son and resume what’s left of what was supposed to be a very special time for us.

  74. Nonnie says:

    Michael, I am very sorry. I would not have hurt you or Trey for anything. Please forgive me.

  75. Ricky Bobby says:

    Cry me a river. You are such a manipulator sometimes.

  76. Michael says:

    I’m going to be out of cell range and trying to get some rest, so I have no choice but to close this thread.
    Please don’t comment about RB on other threads because then I’ll have to deal with that mess .
    Just pray that someday he decides to spends as much time on this blog as I do on his.

  77. crownedone1 says:

    Kevin @ 14

    “I know of a couple that recently went through a divorce. I am distanced from most of the details, but I do know a large contributing factor was the man was emotionally abusive and would at times get violent in his anger, but never actually physically abused his wife.”

    -So he got upset at her at times? Perhaps tried to correct her at times, on bad days, perhaps belittled her at times? Looking for a definition of ’emotional abuse’ here.

    “Yet the wife feared it could someday result in physical abuse to her.”

    -Based on what? Had he physically hurt others before? Hurt animals? Where did this fear originate from? What was the logic behind the fear, a gut “feeling”?

    “Additionally, the violence and anger was in large part a result of a mental disorder the husband had.”

    -Was he ‘violent’ or ‘angry’? One is a physical act, another is an emotion. Did the woman have a mental disorder? Divorcing someone because they ‘might’ do something (a sort of “minority report” marriage where you are guilty until proven innocent) sounds like a mental disorder in and of itself.

    “A mental disorder that he was not very forthcoming about before they got married.”

    -If he truly has a mental disorder, was he ‘aware’ he had it prior to marriage? I’m not convinced yet that the wife wasn’t the ’cause’ of his mental disorder.

    “So was she on biblical grounds to pursue the divorce?”

    -Based on your recounting, no. Perhaps there were additional details that would necessitate a yes…but based on what you shared, no.

    -I will say this though, if this woman divorced him on something he “might do someday”, I am sure he is in a much better place (and happier) to not have to live with that daily mental accusation looking at him when he wakes up in the morning.

  78. Kevin H says:

    Surprised to see this thread open again. Being that it is, hopefully we can stay away from the sidetracking this time that closed it in the first place.

    Crowned,

    As you can read in my original comment @14, I said I don’t know all the details of the situation. Plus, what I do know comes more from the wife’s side than the husband’s.

    As for the emotional abuse, again I don’t know the depth of details, but I do know she felt like she was regularly undergoing significant emotional abuse. As for her fear of physical abuse, this primarily resulted from him getting violent during arguments in the form of him breaking and throwing things. I do not know if he ever threatened her with physical abuse, but I’m sure it was possible.

    As for the mental disorder, this was something he was diagnosed with years before their marriage. According to his wife, he downplayed it before they got married and said he was able to keep it pretty much under control with medication. She came to find out afterwards that the medication wasn’t that effective, and worse yet during periods when he would choose to stop taking his medication.

    Again, I don’t know all the details. But knowing what I do know, at the very least I’m not going to pass judgment on her by saying that she was definitively wrong to get divorced.

  79. crownedone1 says:

    Kevin @ 79 “Again, I don’t know all the details. But knowing what I do know, at the very least I’m not going to pass judgment on her by saying that she was definitively wrong to get divorced.”

    I would never presume to past judgment anyways. The best thing to do is simply to relay the scriptural allowances for divorce (adultery & abandonment).

    If she wants to create personal loopholes and say that “I felt emotionally compromised around him” that is between her and God. Regardless, I would still convey scripture, and it is up to her whether or not she believes it.

    At which point do we start looking for ‘loopholes to escape our marriage’ instead of looking for ‘bonds with Christ to preserve it’?

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