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18 Responses

  1. Josh the Baptist says:

    For Scott MCknight and others who get bent out of shape over “no creed but the Bible”, here is what we mean by that:

    “In some groups, statements of belief have the same authority as Scripture. We call this creedalism. Baptists also make statements of belief, but all of them are revisable in light of Scripture. The Bible is the final word.

    Because of this distinction, we are generally more comfortable with the word “confession.” Still, we are “creedal” in the sense that we believe certain things, express those beliefs and order our institutions accordingly. There have always been Baptist limits. And within these limits, there have always been Baptist preferences.”

  2. Duane Arnold says:

    I truly wonder if Franklin Graham and Tony Perkins should be sent a copy of The Barmen Declaration… but then again, if they read it, would they understand it?

  3. Michael says:

    I just added a link to a Harvard research paper…very much worth reading to understand where we really are in terms of faith in America.

  4. Babylon's Dread says:

    @1 – I still ascribe to the Baptist form of confessional faith. The idea was that a binding creed is a form of coercion and the essence of being Baptist was freedom and the rejection of coercion as the means of securing faith.

    I think underneath it all is the idea that Christianity is not primarily what you say about God but the work that God has done on our behalf and within us. The regenerating work of the Holy Spirit is not conditioned upon our Credo but upon the reality of calling upon the LORD. Yes implicit within that cry is a certain amount of content but even genuine converts can mis-state or express poorly the content.

  5. Michael says:

    There has to be a baseline standard for orthodoxy.
    The creeds have provided that baseline for 1700 years…the rejection of the standard is lunacy to me.

  6. Josh the Baptist says:

    While we would say that “standard” is Scripture.

  7. Michael says:

    “While we would say that “standard” is Scripture.”

    Just like all the rest of the thousands of orthodox denoms and many cults.

  8. Josh the Baptist says:

    Yes, and you and I believe very different, but still affirm the creeds.

  9. Babylon's Dread says:

    I affirm the ecumenical creeds … just not the coercive applications

    I wonder if Creeds would ever have risen to such prominence had the actual text been available to the masses.

  10. Josh the Baptist says:

    @9 Same here.

  11. Babylon's Dread says:

    I am part of the crisis of trust.

    I do not believe any media outlets to actually tell the truth. I think they are all truth-shapers. For the most part I think most Christian voices are the same.

    I do not trust our institutions they are all ideologically bent. I do not trust the courts and now I do not trust the unelected officials to do their jobs without partisanship.

    Increasingly I trust no one except the closest of inner circles.

    Strangely I trust this venue more than the institutions that ‘serve’ us.

    I think this is a real problem and I think we are headed for crises that will shake our foundations.

    I noted to my kids that I have become the old curmudgeon — they resoundingly affirmed that.

  12. Michael says:

    “I think this is a real problem and I think we are headed for crises that will shake our foundations.”

    I completely agree…

  13. Josh the Baptist says:

    Here is a similar article that a friend commented on this week:

    His comments, which I thought were insightful:

    “The article is about trust in government is collapsing. That’s a good thing. The article laments that the Chinese REALLY trust their government but Americans don’t trust theirs. Of course, that’s because the Chinese government controls all the media in China. The article finds a correlation between high trust of media and high trust of government. In America, technology has created the ability to diversify political, public discourse. This had eroded a monolithic media presentation of any government propaganda. Again, this is a good thing.”

  14. bob1 says:


    Unfortunately, no.

    They’re court evangelicals. Bought and paid for.

    They’re beyond redemption.


  15. bob1 says:

    I’m not super familiar with the Baptist world…but I must say I think this article by Ed Stetzer is very perceptive, wise, and, IMHO, right on the money. I think he’s Baptist, right? I thought it was worth sharing…

  16. Josh the Baptist says:

    Yes, Ed is SBC. He’s been saying lots of good things lately.

  17. Dan from Georgia says:

    Why does Franklin Graham keep opening up his mouth about Trump and saying Bill Clinton’s situation was different…just saw that he was on CNN with Don Lemon, and Franklin was saying there is a difference between Trump and Clinton’s actions…

    What he’s really saying is that the only difference that matters is whether there is a D or R after the President’s name.

    At least Tony Perkins of the FRC had the guts to come right out and say EXACTLY why he’s for Trump. All the others perform twist morality to differentiate the two.

  18. Michael says:


    I concur…

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