Apr 282016

B-8-sew-loose-ends-451x300During the recent controversy over C.J. Mahaney, I noticed a new meme taking hold that we used to contend with here.

That meme says that the only time abuse of any sort has happened in a church is when there is a legal, criminal, complaint against the abuser.



Then, and only then, will the associates or governance bodies take an accusation seriously.

Mahaney has avoided criminal prosecution, therefore he is “innocent”.

The pastoral standards of 1 Timothy 3 have now been changed to a simple matter of a clean court record.

Biblical ethical and moral standards mean nothing in corporate evangelicalism anymore…it’s all about who you know and what you’ve got…

I was amazed again this week st the number of Christians on Facebook who are hinting at actually taking up arms against the government.

These are usually Trump supporters who see their guy as some sort of last chance for the Republic.

I can’t believe that we’re moving toward civil war, but I would have never believed that someone like Trump could be in a position to lead this country.

I still don’t get what we are all so very angry about…but I do know it’s grossly irresponsible for clergy to be fanning these flames…

Only about a third of Protestant pastors now believe in a pre-trib Rapture according to Lifeway research.

About half still hold to premillennialism.

It’s an interesting survey…

10 Things you should know about J.I. Packer…

This is one of the treasures of the internet…give yourself a biblical and theological education for free…

  41 Responses to “Loose Ends”

  1. In nit sure if we are headed towards civil war or a revolution such as they’ve had in Egypt and Ukraine in the last few years. Both Trump and Sanders have supporters who are fed up with the political establishment. It’s just that the Sanders supporters are a lot less prone to armed revolution than the Trump ones.

  2. Facebook revolutionaries – LOL – what a bunch of sissies. When I was in college and we were upset – we actually blew things up and didn’t just talk about it on FB.

    Trump supporters are just as phony as their candidate.

  3. London,

    Good distinction.
    I’m just not that angry…woke up this morning and the electricity was on, drove paved roads to pick up T, waved at the sheriff and saw a fire truck responding to an emergency.

    Things are working ok…

  4. I’m not that angry either. I just see some similarities between what I saw happening through my Ukrainian friends posts prior to Maidian and what I’m seeing now in some videos during this election.

  5. London, I sincerely hope that doesn’t happen here. other than the internet, I don’t seem to run into that kind of unrest in my normal life.

  6. It doesn’t happen in my normal life either. But I think that’s cause my “normal” life is middle class American suburbia.

  7. Riots happening in some of our big cities are certainly not unheard of. It’s hard to picture riots spreading all over the country–particularly when people are mad at the Federal government not necessarily their local government. The people who rioted in LA after the Rodney King verdict were rioting in response to local police corruption, the people who rioted in Ferguson and in Baltimore were also rioting over local issues with their local police and government. Where are people who are upset over the Federal Government supposed to riot? Presumably when it’s a local issue everybody is already in one location and the number of people dissatisfied with an issue in that location reaches a critical mass and things boil over into violence. But, I don’t see most cities (a) having enough people all angry enough about the Federal government to reach the critical mass that you need for riots to break out or (b) having a local object to direct their rage toward. It’s not like these angry people have enough energy, motivation, and direction to all fly to DC and riot there.

  8. okay …
    as of 4/28/16 (my grandson’s birthday) i am ready to vote for Donald Trump… i have listened to Dr. Ben Carson say that the man is more measured and smarter than his blowhard campaign rhetoric and that he will recognize and listen to competent advisors, if this is true, he’ll get my vote… i’ve also now heard Carly Fiorina declare that he is a megalomaniac and, if crossed, will try destroy you – aren’t they all? dunno – don’t think i’m “phony,” tho – dunno, tho, do i?
    my daughter is all for Bernie, but i know that, if he tries to play Santa with the economy, what we’ll get is the day after Christmas – wrapping paper, trinkets and bills that we just may not be able to pay…
    ” I do know it’s grossly irresponsible for clergy to be fanning these flames…” amen, and amen again, but
    i seriously doubt that we are any closer to a revolution than we’ve been for the last 20 or so years… however, i do think that we could disintegrate into all kinds of civil mayhems, no matter who wins … we’ve got a whole lot of rabble rousers with mindless followers, who will loot and burn to protest – thing is, they don’t realize that they’re protesting what they are, not what the country is IMHO
    as a footnote to my political “wisdom,” i also think that, if elected, Trump stands a good chance of dying in office – prematurely and early – so i’d hope he’d chose a wise running mate

    i want that 1,000 year reign of our Lord bodily on this earth, so badly… as it is laid out by those who teach an accelerated tribulation period with the then 1,000 years’ example of His kingship over mankind before the final judgement (no excuses left then)… it makes all the sense in the world to me – but then i am “flesh” and flawed 🙂

    Safari is telling me that ii can’t open the 10 things, so i’ll go try another browser

  9. Clearly people are just rioting figuratively by voting for Donald Trump, but very few people would ever take up arms against their fellow Americans.

  10. well i went over to another browser and was able to read the 10 things about Packer… i so thank God for His good and faithful (true) servants… a good ponder, those 10 things

    “3. Packer was converted two weeks after arriving at Oxford University as a student.
    Packer was raised in a nominally rather than genuinely Christian family and church. When he entered Oxford University, he thought of himself as a Christian because he had defended Christianity in intellectual debate at school. While attending an evangelistic service sponsored by the campus InterVarsity group, he realized that he was not a true Christian. By God’s grace, he left the service as a believing and saved Christian.”

    this is the perfect example of what concerns me about the efficacy of infant baptism and of folk who, having spent all their lives attending church and liking their lifestyle… not ever realizing that they are being as assumptive as the spoiled rich kid who takes for granted his right to be rich… i don’t know about their standing with God, but i do wonder… i wonder if they’ve ever really met Him One on one… loved Inter Varsity – met my husband there, also

  11. On the other hand, Packer valued the faith he did have enough to defend it in intellectual debate. That makes me think of Apollos in Acts 18 who was knowledgeable of scripture and had been instructed in the way of the Lord but had only been baptised in the baptism of John. Priscilla and Aquila took him aside and explained to him the way of God more fully.

  12. yet Packer is still a believer in infant baptism.

  13. “Christians on Facebook who are hinting at actually taking up arms against the government” are not followers of Jesus, as we read of Him in the 4Gospels.

    Our outreach needs to take into account all the angry among us and disciple them to rediscover Jesus, forsake the greed, the entitlement, the nationalism, and fall back in love with Him.

  14. Pretty sure if I started encouraging Christians on my facebook page to give up their nationalism, I would end up on the side of the road waiting for a Samaritan. 😉

  15. thinking, j2 and MLD … thinking, thinking, thinking…. 🙂

    love Gman’s 1,000 words… but i think a thug can be a protester and a protester can be a thug… wouldn’t it depend on how you protest? dunno – thinking…

  16. Dallas,

    That was rich…thank you. 🙂

  17. biblicaltraining is a great resource.

    Does anyone know if they use text books, or is all just lectures?

    Obviously, the lectures are valuable. I was just wondering exactly how it works there.

  18. http://www.christianpost.com/news/saeed-abedini-god-leave-children-jesus-persecution-iran-prison-162578/

    Hope the headline doesn’t make you throw up:

    “Saeed Abedini: God Called Me to Leave My Children, Serve Jesus and Face Persecution in Iran”

  19. Luke 14:26-27 goes over pretty well for the “Saeed is a persecuted hero of the faith” crowd, but I wonder if the “I hate my wife and children” thing will go over as well in an eventual custody hearing.

  20. He doesn’t care about getting custody, apparently.

  21. he is a twit – this is what you get when people are just allowed to call themselves “pastor” and no one say “no you are not.”

  22. Not directly related, but this brought me to mind of it, I was reading through Deuteronomy a couple months ago and was struck by the numerous concessions made for men who were to go out to war (Deuteronomy 20, 24). Just something I hadn’t noticed before. Newly betrothed, new wife, new house, new crop… go take care of your business, you can catch the next one (admittedly super loose commentary).

  23. Josh the Baptist (#20)



    I wonder it that is the tipping point and the Christian Post will stop their kiss-up, fluff pieces about Saeed.

    Probably not.

  24. I wonder if that kind of garbage from that publication is the reason they no longer allow comments on their website.

  25. Saeed… the beat goes on – as we used to say…
    nothing, nothing about this man – even his relationship with the Lord – is of more than incidental interest to me… i’m not in a position to know the truth, so i can’t waste the energy

    and yet … if it is true that his daughter is on a mind altering drug for anxiety, as i read on another thread, everyone with any connection to this drama should fear the wrath of God – what kind of witness for the Lord do any of the players have?

  26. “he is a twit – this is what you get when people are just allowed to call themselves “pastor” and no one say “no you are not.”

    I’m saying it and have been saying it.

    I intend to keep saying it.

  27. Michael – I know you are. I’m talking about in the beginning – the first day when he showed up in his new pastor shirt and his new pastor briefcase and said to someone – “Hi, I am a pastor – that someone in the know didn’t say “hey you little twit – no you’re not.” – then point, laugh and walk away. 😉

  28. From what it seems MLD, a bunch of people have said that over the years, and he just ignores and keeps going. Shameful guy.

  29. The Christian Post is a virus and the hardest web site to navigate freely on the net. Pop up hell for me.

    Armed revolution will definitely come to America, you don’t have to be a prophet just a mildly informed historian to know it.

    Every myth about this nation is going to be in ashes. The worst is that we are some kind of kingdom representative nation.

    Trump will foment violence but it does not take much searching to discover that riots are not fomented by Republicans. Ducking and covering…

    The demise of the pre-trib rapture is sheer delight… no doubt it will be seen as a sure sign of the truth of the position.

  30. “Armed revolution will definitely come to America,” hmmm – hope not

    armed revolution will come to America? Haven’t some of the Americas experienced on going armed revolutions for decades now?
    then, too, wasn’t our Civil War an armed revolution? … makes me wonder which side of that revolution today’s protesters (or thugs, whichever) would protest against…

    from Wikipedia regarding the Bonus Army (veterans trying to collect what they’d been promised)
    “On July 28 [1932], U.S. Attorney General William D. Mitchell ordered the veterans removed from all government property. Washington police met with resistance, shots were fired and two veterans were wounded and later died. President Herbert Hoover then ordered the army to clear the veterans’ campsite. Army Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur commanded the infantry and cavalry supported by six tanks. The Bonus Army marchers with their wives and children were driven out, and their shelters and belongings burned.”
    so far in our nation, hasn’t the Federal Government always won? dunno

    i don’t know too many of the right wingers (about as many as i know of the left wing), but up this valley every home has a gun (no local police close) and i don’t know anyone who would take to the streets in revolt
    BUT some of the folk out marching in the streets these days seem to be people who could be exploited to do damage, if their leaders (yes, i’m sure there are “leaders”) chose to goad them … and arm them … hmmm – dunno what to do bout that

  31. “Trump will foment violence but it does not take much searching to discover that riots are not fomented by Republicans. Ducking and covering…”

    Which party introduced crack cocaine to L.A to finance their illegal wars?

    That has led to chaos in Central America and here…but God bless their hearts, they are surely righteous.

    What’s coming is a race war…entirely fomented by the right.

  32. Five years old…further proof a prophet was among us.


  33. Thanks for sharing Charles again Michael.

    Reminds me of the old guy on 60 minutes in a sense.

    He used to speak is mind.


  34. a race war fomented entirely by the right? not sure that can be proved to be true…
    but i assume that viewpoint is from the Central and South American angle as the right wingers make so much noise about illegal immigration…
    on that score, i’m not up to speed on today’s status, but i do know that we used to welcome the Mexican labor to come north and tend the crops in Calif. They boarded buses at the border, did the work and went home at the end of the season. No, they didn’t make “good” wages by U.S. standards, i guess, but the dollars they took home went much further (still do)… and i don’t buy into the argument that they’re doing the work that we won’t do… they have, however, made it so that we don’t have to do it – temporarily undercutting wages for a season (my kids all earned money in the summer, bussed out to the fields surrounding Seattle to pick strawberries and cucumbers, as did many others).. we have a good industrious Latinos here in Central Washington and to a man, their goal is to give their kids the “good life.” They have no intention of making a career out there picking apples and pruning trees. They are actually being hired by the big corporate growers to manage their farms now.
    Another generation and we’ll be looking for a new source of field labor. It’ll probably be everybody, including us – just as it was during the Great Depression.
    i just don’t see how it is the right wingers causing the foment – as i’ve listened to Hillary and Bernie, i think BOTH sides AND the middle are all exploiting and rabble rousing – just my humble opinion, tho – dunno and i “have no dog in the hunt,” – i just don’t see it as one sided – i don’t
    sorry about pontificating … again

  35. 10 years of hysterical lies about the border from the right on their media is called “fomenting”.

    A lot of crops will rot this year…

    I need to shut up before I lose it again…

  36. Thanks surfer51…if one person hears then it is worth repeating.

  37. Michael, i love you dearly and do not want to be disagreeable or sound dismissive of your viewpoint – i know you have a heart for this issue and its people as they suffer today – perhaps, shutting up the right would solve the problem… i wish i could see it, but politically, i think all sides are exploiting it for their own gain … now if you want to turn your searchlight on big corporate America, we might be in agreement

    God keep

  38. I have never advocated shutting down left, right, or center.
    I advocate telling the truth.
    It is the right that has lied about the border and immigration and scapegoated the migrant.
    There will likely be a war or two because of that.

    I will fight on the side of the migrant as able.

    The left lies about other things.

  39. “Pastors under 45 are least likely to believe in a pretribulation rapture (28%), compared to their older peers. They’re also most likely (23%) to believe in a posttribulation rapture.”

    I believe this to be the case, yet don’t know why this is the case demographically…

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