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  1. JTK says:

    Having a campus wide worship night at my crazy public university……HOW will it go?
    (someone else is hosting it)…..

    Predictions? Comments?

    Prayer for us….?

    Have a good Friday, y’all.

  2. Michael says:

    Prayer we can do…go for it, my friend!

  3. Nonnie says:

    JTK, will be praying for you. To God be the glory!

  4. filbertz says:

    I spent a long, profitable evening with a mentor/friend of mine earlier this week. He has worked inside and outside the church for many years as a pastor. He now doesn’t identify himself as a pastor because of the baggage the term carries. He calls himself a chaplain. Part of our conversation had to do with fruitfulness–where and how God is obviously working. His take was that Christians outside the traditional confines of churches are seeing more (quantity) genuine (quality) ministry than within. By the way, he travels nationwide with his contacts and encounters, so he wasn’t speaking of a local phenomenon. I particularly like his approach to defining the Church–it has no walls, but it does have a Foundation.

  5. Andrew says:


    Curious, so did this guy just give up the “name” pastor in favor of chaplain or did he actually leave his position of pastor in the church he was part of for many years?

    As a “chaplain” was he ordained by anyone, mentored or taught by anyone or under authority of any group, etc…or is he really independent?

  6. Panthers got a hogmolly to stop up the middle.

  7. filbertz says:

    he gave up the title for the sake of not having to deal with hurt people and non-christians automatically putting up barriers when they met him. He has worked in numerous churches and is ‘on-staff’ with one currently, but mostly as a resource. He is highly educated (done doctoral work, but never completed) and maintains his ordination through a denomination and the non-profit he works “under.” He is both accountable and independent–a nice place to be. He is accountable to two different boards. And his wife. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  8. This is what I believe and know to be true. Just thought I would make a postive faith statement.

    I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

    And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

    Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

    And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

    And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

  9. JTK says:

    There is something sooo purifying about reaching out to the lost, whether that’s religious and lost or lost-as-an-Easter-Egg lost.

    Thanks for sharing.

    I still use the term “minister” which most “out there” lost people don’t even get.

  10. Michael says:


    Well done!

  11. Did MLD just quote a Rich Mullins song ? ๐Ÿ™‚

  12. Furthermore, The Ragamuffin Gospel has deepened my understanding of grace.

  13. Becky says:

    No TGIF? Well at least we got Thank Grimm its Friday. Any Grimmsters here? cause I love that show.

  14. Andrew says:


    I don’t want to be the guy that puts a damper on what on the surface sounds like a good thing. But here is my first impression of what you describe with this chaplain mentor:

    1. A pastor chooses not to use the name “pastor” any more because it has such a poor reputation. However, he has retained his ordination and is still on staff at a church. My concern with this is that this could be deceitful especially if the pastor is purposely hiding his ordination, affiliation and commitment to a particular church. Honesty goes a long way in reaching out to unbelievers and I think its wrong if someone is trying to hide who they are really committed to. It kind of reminds of of the story with Abraham when he pretended that Sarah was his sister and not his wife.

    2. Being accountable to two different boards can also be deceiving especially if the 2 boards have different doctrinal standards. I clearly remember a pastor I knew being a professor at a local seminary. To teach in the seminary, you had to subscribe to a certain statement of faith. To be a pastor in the church you had to also subscribe to a certain statement of faith. So it had me scratching my head to what doctrinal statement this pastor actually believed since the two doctrinal statements were different enough that I didn’t see how you could subscribe to both.

    Anyway, I didn’t want to be the bad guy to point out the pitfalls of what you brought up however, I have seen a dangerous trend in the churches where pastors in a loosely knit group of churches sit on each others boards yet at same time claim complete autonomy when legal problems arise. The world can see right through this and again this is not being completely honest with anyone.

  15. filbertz says:

    I understand. He gave up a title, not his beliefs or commitments. He felt that with outsiders or those abused by a church in the past, it posed an unnecessary complication, whereas “chaplain” actually opened the doors of communication. Chaplain still has a tone or tenor of Christian and minister. Also, his affiliation with different churches generally benefits the church much more than himself. For example, his salary is paid by the non-profit entirely. Churches use him for resource & his connections and expertise. There is wide seas of ministry to be sailed outside the walls of churches…

    When we encounter a non-believer, we don’t start with all our doctrinal distinctives and hobby horses in the interest of complete disclosure…conversions would be incredibly rare if we did. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  16. filbertz says:

    besides, when has the world been an accurate judge of the Church? Misconceptions abound, and rare is the non-Christian who will be diligent enough to seek out accurate information. The world is much more critical of our core message than our goofy disputes and territorial skirmishes.

  17. Lutheran says:

    #11 JTB,

    Good one!

    Other way around. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Actually, Mullins was on his way to becoming a Roman Catholic when he died. Quite a switch from being a Quaker!

  18. ( |o )====::: says:

    My wife is the family Grimmster, and I sketch while she enjoys it.

    I think the show jumped the shark with the narrated intro, evidenced by the producers losing it quickly. I find the makeup fx a tad cheesy but Monroe is a great comic foil.

    …and I guess i pay more attention than I let on

  19. mrtundraman says:

    MLD wrote – “I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.”

    Me, too. One true Church and apostolic succession. Kewl. Finally MLD and I agree.

  20. Reuben says:

    Does Furtick snort cocaine?

    I caught nothing from that whole snip but the money thing. Always a money thing.

  21. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    Vikings hit a home run in the draft last night and they got cool new uniforms, no more of that Barney soft feminine purple.

  22. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    Please keep me in prayer as I am having dinner with a woman tonight who is an unbeliever. She has a lot of questions about the faith and she is challenging many things which is good as at least she is curious and seeking. So I pray that the holy spirit can touch her heart.

  23. Michael says:

    The greatest pure country singer that ever lived died today…and I’m sad as hell about it.
    George Jones is finally at peace…

  24. Ixtlan says:

    RIP George Jones……

  25. Ixtlan says:

    I make money to do coke, to be more productive, to get more money, to do more coke, to be more productive, to make more money…………….

    Make your own application.

  26. Michael,
    I have my lifelong favorites and when one of them passes its heartbreaking.

    Would you feel ok telling us what you liked about George Jones, favorite songs, stories or does that need to wait awhile?

    So sorry for the loss you’re feeling.

  27. Passing by says:

    This classic by George Jones always made me think he was doing more than just singing words, but rather was expressing his own life experience.


  28. Talking about music. I was listening to The Whiskey Gentry’s new album coming home. Good country right there! Got a real Appalachian feel to it.

  29. Is it hypocritical to like playing cpuntry music but not like lstening to it? Same with blues; fun to play but often times difficult to listen to on a record

  30. SteveH,
    of course not! It all changes when you’re the one hitting the notes, working the scales and hearing the tones, all the while getting lost in the moment…

  31. erunner says:

    Music is up for the week. Feel free to drop by and be refreshed by some nice praise & worship.

  32. Michael says:


    Jones was the last and greatest of the authentic carriers of a great American art form.
    He lived his music and he felt that life every time he sang about it.
    He almost destroyed his career and himself…the demons had him down for the count…but in true country music fashion the love of the Lord and a good woman saved him.
    He was universally recognized among his peers as the best…and now, like the queen he married, he’s gone.

  33. Michael says:

    That song that Ixtlan posted…the phrasing…that is the greatest country song of all time.
    I’m a mess tonight…the voices of my life keep falling silent.

  34. Steve Wright says:

    Same with blues; fun to play but often times difficult to listen to on a record
    The traditional blues and then blues-influenced rock was a huge part of my life. I still love listening to Christ-centered blues music, but also those songs that speak of drugs or love-lost – as they stand in stark contrast to the blessings in life today, and a reminder of what might have been but for the grace of God.

    The blues songs that are just about chasing women though, I pass on today.

    I was never into country much, yet the irony of the Stones being the band I used to listen to more than any other is noted – as they were heavily influenced by not just the blues but also the country legends such as the ones Michael mourns….

  35. Reuben says:


    I am 100% the same way about country. I refuse to listen to it, but it sure is fun to play!

  36. I used to detest country music. Now I find it a whole lot more satisfying than most “christian” music, both in its honesty and in its quality. Plus, much like the ocean, it reminds me of my dad, who passed almost 40 years ago, and loved country music. Can’t help but think that if he were living, we’d be sitting on a porch together somewhere listening to George and Tammy, along with Johnny and June, Ray Price, Charlie Pride and B.J. Thomas.

    I feel your pain, Michael.

  37. Michael says:

    It’s my blog, I guess I can ramble if I want to…
    I grew up on Jones and Cash and Jerry Lee and greatness…to this day when I put on headphones on and I listen to Tammy Wynette hit that note at the end of “Stand By Your Man” the hair on the back of my neck stands up.
    It was visceral, it was from gut to gut and heart to heart.
    It was real.
    They were drunkards and womanizers and carriers of tragedy…and I understood them without knowing them.
    Ironically, it was because I loved that music that I so loathe most Christian music…vapid, soulless, swill that speaks of the God of womanizers, drunkards, and carriers of tragedy as if He were some effeminate eunuch they were fond of.
    You can’t sing well about heaven until you’ve walked through hell…well, maybe you can, but you can’t sing to me.

  38. Michael says:


    Thank you…I’d like a place on that porch.

  39. Steve Wright says:

    You canโ€™t sing well about heaven until youโ€™ve walked through hell
    Blind Willie Johnson embodied that for me….I listen to him regularly for a song or two on my short drive to preach on Sunday mornings….

    The man has been dead since 1945 and the Lord still uses his music in my life today…

    (lots unknown about him, but I’ve read this confirmed multiple places)

    Johnson was not born blind, but mother dies and his later stepmother blinded him as a small boy by throwing lye in his eyes…… His house burned to the ground and he slept in the damp ruins for months, got malaria and was refused admittance in the hospital because he was black.

    Guy like that can sing to me about Jesus all day. ๐Ÿ™‚

  40. I am with those who don’t like Xtian music. Maybe its the marketing aspect of the genre but I find it very unauthentic and image oriented. Record companies manipulating us, telling us what is good and what is not. I find it all annoying. Give me Roby Duke, Bob Bennett, Kelly Willard, Billy Crockett, and Pierce Pettis any time they knew how to craft a song…wow, I am sounding like my parents!

  41. Reuben says:

    “I so loathe most Christian musicโ€ฆvapid, soulless, swill that speaks of the God of womanizers, drunkards, and carriers of tragedy as if He were some effeminate eunuch they were fond of.”


  42. Steve,
    Bob played here in Tempe recently and I didn’t find out about it until it was too late. Talk about bummed.

  43. Michael, you bring the Kahlua, and Daddy and I will save a nice shady spot for you.

  44. Please Note says:

    Sad, as well, to hear of Jones’ passing….many spoke of how well Sinatra was at phrasing, and he was really good, but Jones had it down to such a natural art form. You could hear Sinatra’s pregnant pause to set up the timing of the phrasing. With George Jones, you just sat in retrospect, wondering how he did that.

    His voice was an awesome instrument, but his phrasing was on another level, and heightened the impact of his great sound.

    You didn’t just hear the life in what he sang, you felt it.

    He will be missed; thankfully, his music lives on.

  45. Glen says:

    #40, 41 – agreed. Liked CCM 20 – 40 years ago. Now it’s hymns, old country, oldies from the 50’s and 60’s and bluegrass – regular and gospel. Some of that bluegrass will bring me to tears………

  46. Please Note, you got that right! Good to see you again too!

  47. Here’s my favorite country artist singing a George Jones tune.

  48. A drop of water in the ocean says:

    Happy Sabbath

  49. Sarah says:

    Grand Ole Opry has dedicated all their shows this weekend to George, focusing on him and his music. Some artists, like Brad Paisely, showed up just to honor him. I love Nashville in moments like this…the town as a whole treasures these people, whether folks are “country” fans or not.

  50. Julie Anne says:

    Steve Hopkins – I know very few people who have heard of Roby Duke. That was one talented man. I saw him in concert maybe a couple of times. He was authentic personally and musically. I was sad to hear that he had died. My 23-yr old really loves his stuff, too.

  51. #51 is a live performance of George Jones singing “Amazing Grace.”

  52. victorious says:

    Filbertz. Would love to meet your friend, hear his story and rejoice with him in the fruit he is tasting in his labors.

    I find myself in similar waters and would like some wisdom as to how to navigate.

  53. Paigemom says:

    I have to take exception to the concept that George Jones, or any other musician/vocalist who passes is now ‘silenced”…… we have their recordings to enjoy, for now. But if we truly believe that there is a rich life, a better life, a more glorious life after passing from an earthly tent, then those favorite voices are more beautiful and more appreciated than ever. IMO, of course…… I do appreciate that there is an element of ‘christianity’ in country music, but my rebellious heart and ears can’t stand it that genre. Sorry Michael….. I’m a Black lady in disguise and just plain love Black Gospel…..(and a whole lot of bassin dance music)…even if I am an old white gramma. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Fil…… I have to wonder if you are speaking of yourself. :-)….. I suspect your friend has a lot of kinfolk who are not pros on staff in church anymore, but still in the battle. (Maybe the reason I’m not on a church staff anymore has to do with my prefs in music) ;-D

  54. Bob says:

    “It was real.”

    Just like their hair!


  55. filbertz says:

    without a doubt he’s been the biggest influence on my ministry approach. I think the two biggest aspects that move me are his humility and the profound way God has used him. It is a very rare combination. He has a grand love for the lost and a tangible compassion for those spun off by the church or their experience within it.

  56. Kathy says:

    This was from Alex from another thread:
    “If SOMEONE WANTS the CC Abuse blog, they can have it. I should publish the pile of allegations Iโ€™ve got from CCCM insiders (shuffling a pedophile to South America among much other stuff) but no one would really care and the CC apologists would call it gossip and lies etc and me and my family would suffer.”

    Alex: how serious are you about this?

    I would hope someone would step into your shoes for the sheep’s sake.

    I know a lot of people come here because they’ve been abused by their church. What a ministry opportunity to team up with Alex and actually HELP people! It could be a site where people report CC abuse and there would be someone there to counsel them in the aftermath.

    Alex, I understand if you want to pass off some of the responsibility. Really hurt people come to you as a last resort and you may not be qualified (or have the time) to counsel them all. Right now, it seems like a place to write about grievances, but there’s little else in the ways of actual reconciliation and healing. I know Alex did great stuff with Bob Caldwell, but wouldn’t it be great if there was someone (or a team) that could do that for everyone?

    I hope someone prayerfully considers this and will help Alex fill in some of the gaps. I don’t want to point fingers and put people on the spot, but I’d think there’s several on PxP that could do it.

    Just a thought…. I’d do it but I don’t have the writing/reporting skills nor the experience with counseling nor the connections within the CC Movement. But I’d be eager to help in whatever I can!

  57. Kathy says:

    jlo: that’s my old church.

    Just sayin’

    Yes, it’s that bad. ๐Ÿ™

  58. Alex for now says:

    Kathy, I’m very serious about it. I am not qualified to help people. The Bob Caldwell thing was more a function of Bob Caldwell doing the right thing than me doing anything other than being assertive and calling attention to the matter and then calling Bob Caldwell and asking for a meeting. Bob did the rest (and good for him for being a rare good example, IMO).

    I would LOVE a team of folks to take it over. I think CC Abuse is very much needed. I think Steve Wright made some good points in a previous thread about how it could be used (while disagreeing with him on the rest of that post).

    There are some great folks, including Julianne, who can really help people. Uriah is another, Kathy you’d do a great job, Covered is a good pastor who could really help people and many others.

    I’ve left a lot on the field and I’m thrashed (and disillusioned on a personal level). It’s not about me (that accusation is a lie, never has been, I just got tired of no one doing anything so I stepped up, very imperfectly, but at least I tried and at least I did something and it has cost me in a lot of areas).

    It would be great if a CC pastor or pastors with a real heart for the cast-offs of CC would step up as well (doubtful, but that seems to be Jesus-like).

    I’m happy to hand over the keys. Maude is driving the car now. I know Michael has told be to go rant over there, but I don’t think that would do very much good, as my rants now are full of doubt and even more disgust and that wouldn’t help those hurt by CC very much. I rant on here and express the doubts here b/c I thought it was more of a community and hospital to do such. I am not the doctor, I am a patient. While I am agressive and assertive and take bold stands, I am still bleeding and I don’t know what the right answers are anymore.

    I don’t want to fold it up b/c I think CC Abuse is needed. I do think it needs to change.

    Actually, I think Chuck Smith Jr. would be a great guy to help, but that would freak out some of the anti-emergent folks.

    I dunno. I just know that I did it all for what I thought was a righteous cause and I have unfortunately been greatly disappointed in what appears to be the absence of miracles and absence of God doing something positive out of it all. Chuck Smith’s responses have been especially disappointing. I’m also amazed (in a bad way) at how easy it is for the status quo to endure and how easy it is for CC to act like nothing’s wrong. It’s quite remarkable and telling of just how flawed the church is, which unfortunately begs questions in my mind of just how real the bible and “church” really are. My guess is that most in leadership don’t really believe the stuff or they’d act much differently.

  59. PP Vet says:

    In the spirit of Open Blogging (Rush Limbaugh has Open Line Friday): #3 son had apparent Electronic Throttle Module trouble, I said, Come on over and we will steam clean your engine.

    A normal son would have said, Dad, that has nothing to do with it. But he said, OK, Dad.

    So he came over, and while steam cleaning we noticed a loose hose, and that was the whole problem.

    Point is: Listen to your Dad, even when he says something stupid because he is just looking for an excuse to use the pressure washer he bought.

  60. Glen says:

    PP Vet, I was hoping your punch line was going to be about you going Todd Bently, kicking the car, and then it got better. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  61. erunner says:

    Alex, Speaking for myself I want you to know I don’t dislike you at all but have been against your methods. I believe I speak for others here as well. From what I sense there are fine people on your blog who can help you through the dark times you have been through.

    ” I am not the doctor, I am a patient. While I am agressive and assertive and take bold stands, I am still bleeding and I donโ€™t know what the right answers are anymore.”

    Stepping back and allowing others to support you might be just what you need the most right now. It seems God has brought some amazing people into your life and just maybe it was for this time?

    Your wife and children can also be the balm necessary to apply to your wounds.

    It’s easy for people to jump on you while you’re down but you are our brother in Christ and in spite of everything you deserve our prayers.

    I don’t know what the answer is for your blog but I personally like what I am reading there and Maude is an evenhanded moderator who seems interested in the truth while providing a safe place for people to share their pains and disappointments.

    Kathy spoke well and I was happy to see she picked up on your comments and responded in such a loving way.

    God bless you Alex.

  62. Kevin H says:

    Speaking of abusive church situations, this one is just awful. Another terrible story out of Philly. These parents have now let a second of their children die because they refused to seek medical care for them at the direction of their church’s teaching. And to top it off, the pastor is laying the blame of the death on the parents because they’re not spiritually strong enough. Sickening.–Couples-Spiritual-Lack-Lead-to-Sons-Deaths-205134441.html

  63. erunner says:

    Kevin…. Reading the pastor’s remarks he should be an accessory to murder. This is what some non believers latch onto to broad brush all of us. How can a parent watch one of their children die when help is so readily available? No need to answer…..

  64. Kevin H says:

    E – I agree about the pastor being an accessory to murder. I don’t know if there is any legal precedent for such in cases like this, but I would hope so. I also just found out that one of my friends from church grew up in this church. Thankfully she got out of it. Apparently the church has been around for generations. I don’t know if they have always been this extreme, but I’m sure they have done a lot of damage in a lot of people’s lives.

  65. erunner says:

    Kevin, Besides being a cult the JW’s refuse blood transfusions and many have died as a result. This kind of thinking in a Christian” church is cultish as well when someone is willing to let their child die in the misplaced belief God will heal them outside of the miraculous. It also leads me to wonder what else is wrong in churches like this. I’m happy your friend got out in one piece.

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