Nov 172017
 

I have made the decision to post the Wayne Taylor letter about the Calvary Chapel Association in full.

You can access it here.

I made this decision for a number of reasons.

 

First, it is imperative that every CC pastor and church member read it so that they can know the truth as Taylor documents in his letter.

Taylor has a great memory and the documents to back up those recollections…every thing he writes in this letter I have had verified by other sources and much has been the basis of my reporting in the past.

He writes the truth…not just from his perspective, but from what factually has taken place.

Second, as Taylor says, this split didn’t have to happen.

It was created by avarice and dishonesty.

Third, it vindicates Brian Brodersen, who won’t vindicate himself.

Read his own words and see what he’s been through…and then compare that with the untruths that have been propagated against him.

Finally, in a strange way, I do so to protect Wayne Taylor.

If the rank and file pastors and secondary leaders of the Calvary Chapel Association do not stand up and demand changes in leadership immediately here’s what will happen to Wayne Taylor for his efforts.

He will become a pariah.

He broke the rules and told the truth for all to hear and must be punished.

People won’t remember in a year why they shun him, but will do so anyway.

This movement hates conflict and these mighty men of God become eunuchs for Christ when dealing with it.

If they do so in this situation, they become complicit in the slander of good men and the splitting of the movement which will lead to the irrelevance of the movement.

If they stand up and do what is right and righteous, one may assume that God the blessing of God will follow.

If they don’t…we’ll have plenty of material for future articles.

Time to choose…

 

  144 Responses to “Wayne Taylor and the CCA Letter”

  1. Maybe Jesus wants Calvary to truly be united in a fellowship of churches at every level ( not just Senior Pastor affiliations with everybody else given general admission coupons ) . So maybe Jesus is holding back because the true koinonia that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have opened up to others is not being developed the way He wants ?

    So let the symptoms continue . . .

  2. So much for grace. I must say that I am pleasantly surprised by Wayne’s letter. it’s not something I would have expected from him but he was very transparent which will serve this whole mess very well as CCA tries to gain control.

  3. Covered – “as CCA tries to gain control” – that’s what started this whole mess to begin with 😉

  4. vic,
    That is a good question, and one that I think bears consideration and prayer. I was surprised to find out that Calvary only affiliated senior pastors and not assistants or the individual churches. That was a structure by which the church and all the assistant pastors who served their attained their identity in part, by the senior pastor’s affiliation. It is so pastor-centric that among other things, is a contributor to the cult of personality that surrounds the senior pastor and helps support a hierarchy that has doubtful biblical underpinnings.

  5. I love Wayne. I love the letter. When I was 19 and relative stranger he gave me a platform to help raise funds to go on a Summer Project.

    One question I haven’t seen anyone pose yet, that just occurred to me, that I might have to write up myself is this; what should Calvary Chapel (as a movement) be?

    Over 50 years it has looked like multiple things, usually contradictory things at the same time. It is what it is to the level it serves an individual person. A network, a resources, a fellowship, a name for brand recognition, the list goes on. Everyone has an opinion of what it should be I suppose. However, only a few get to define it. Thus, we have the split.

    I don’t want to derail this post with that question. Just me thinking out loud. Wayne’s letter is crucially important, especially when mapped out on a timeline with the “Updates” on the CCA website, and the conflicting stories on whether or not Chuck really believed in the CCA (he didn’t). People are going to believe what they want to believe. People will choose to believe the letter or not.

    The way I see it, this puts the ball in the court of those mentioned in the letter. Don, Joe, and Malcom will have to respond at some level at some point if for nothing else than the sake of integrity. These are some serious personal statements and judgments about Wayne and Brian. They either said them or they didn’t. If they said them, they are going to have to back them up and there is no way of doing that without throwing more mud. Or they repent. Not bloody likely.

    Brian tried to keep the peace until he couldn’t so he left as peaceably as he could without vindicating himself which speaks to his humility and respect. Wayne tried, above and beyond, to keep the peace because I imagine that some of his church plants and “grandchildren” church plants are primarily CCA and he didn’t want to break up the very good fellowship that has existed in NW Washington (I was a part of it once and really appreciated it). Point is they both tried to maintain unity until they were in one way or another forced out, they Brian for sure, and soon Wayne will be labeled as divisive. It’s just sad.

    To me, guys like Brian and Wayne are model leaders, at least when it comes to these kinds of things. I admire and respect them. Seriously makes me want to plant a church and join CGN just to have that connection. According to the map on calvarychapel.com there are only 5 in the Vancouver/Portland area (they all also are on the CCA list), while there are about 12+ on CCAs list (which may or may not be a record keeping issue). Just an interesting note.

  6. pstrmike – I think that changed because of legal liability issues. If you affiliate the church you are affiliating a legal entity and there is an explicit or implicit relationship. If you affiliate a person, it’s really no different that that person being a member of the Rotary or some other network. There is no legal connection between organizational entities.

    While it can be “a contributor to the cult of personality that surrounds the senior pastor” it doesn’t have to be. That rests more on the individual involved. Besides, the same thing can and does happen whether it’s the church that’s affiliated or the individual. It’s not an organizational problem, it’s a sin problem.

  7. I’m going to be a bit harsh, here.

    Sorry, but while Wayne should get a modicum of credit for airing all this, he was still a knowingly willing participant with it until he got the boot and then he decided to talk.

    guess truth and righteousness only matter after one loses their position.

    (Call me naive, but for my part, I’ve had opportunities for ministry thru cc that I confronted and stepped out of once I discovered “screwiness.”…for lack of specific terms.

    And yes, I’ve paid for it.

    Is it too much to actually expect similar or the same from supposed under shepherds?)

  8. How can Wayne Taylor be the victim/martyr/persecuted one here? I think Brian Brodersen’s “side” of Calvary Chapel has more pastors. The CCA side is outnumbered. Personally I think both sides are wrong anyway. And neither side will compete with the modern church of flashy entertainments and Justin Bieber attending your night club, I mean, fellowship. So both sides of CC will slowly but surely disappear. So why argue over table scraps? Wayne Taylor’s letter sounds like sour grapes.

  9. Corby
    I want to affirm your participation as a problem solver and solution provider in matters of the discipleship and leadership in the church.

    On that basis , have you tested the answers provided to you within your experience within the Calvary narrative that influenced the assumptions that allow to very quickly answer the questions addressed here?

    Have you looked outside the realm of the Calvary neighborhood to find out if other church groups have found ways to define and develop oversight of
    Individual leaders , groups of leaders and churches
    simultaneously addressing both relational health and legal/ business accountability ?

    You have great intent and a good spirit . I encourage to broaden your scope of knowledge and the sources that you utilize.
    Blessings

  10. corby,
    CGN recognizes churches, not pastors. As to the cultic behavior of churches, when the group that is your covering encourages such, it is easier to sustain, and gives the pastor all the idealogical structure he needs to think his system is correct. I can’t count the many times I heard over the years “that’s how Chuck does it”, or “let’s go ask Chuck, or Romaine or Oden?” (sorry Oden) Those were the pat answers that were often given when methodologies and systems were challenged.

    stephen,
    It could be that when one loses their position, that the impact of that illuminates a person’s recognition of the truth. Before I was afflicted I went astray. That is giving Wayne the benefit of the doubt, which as you have raised, does have some validity to it.

  11. The reason the pastor is affiliated and not the church organization is purely an issue of control. If a church tries t remove Moses SP, Moses SP takes up his tent and moves elsewhere, leaving the church in quite a lurch since most churches either have long term eases or loans. in turn, the church loses it name “Calvary Chapel whatever” which causes untold damage, loss of congregants, et . This causes a breach of most lender’s loan loan documents in most cases and, at the least, financially destroys the church due to the loss of attendance, tithe and giving income.

    So the Moses SP ultimately has the last say in his removal even if his hand selected Board goes sideways and effects a mutiny.

    I have long contended that the mere use of the legal term “affiliate” creates a presumption, or at the least a perception that somehow CCCM has collateral liability for other CC’s, to the extent that I spoke to this issue at the 1996 or 1997 Senior Pastor’s Conference, which was record for evidentiary purposes. Despite that, another person who clai sto give legal advice and was once associated with CCOF reversed that determination so as to perpetuate CCOF influence over other CC’s.

    However, Corby, the first apart raps goes to the issue first raised and was the motivation for affiliating a pastor as opposed to a church.

  12. Sorry.

    SB – Howver Corby, the first paragraph above goes to the issue…”

  13. One further point. If the Moses SP leaves, the church is left holding the bag with the landlord or lender, as the case may be, and the church corporation is liable, not the SP. So in that event the church will lose most if not all its assets as they typically are security for the loan or lease.

    The mere possibility of this occurrence places Moses SP in the driver’s seat.

  14. […] UPDATE 11/17/2017 – It’s worth reading a recently released letter from Wayne Taylor to Calvary Chapel pastors on his removal from the CCA, if like me, you are still wondering about its future. You can access that letter here: http://michaelnewnham.com/wayne-taylor-cca/. […]

  15. @9 – Victorious,

    ” have you tested the answers provided to you within your experience within the Calvary narrative that influenced the assumptions that allow to very quickly answer the questions addressed here” – Yes, insofar as I have been able to implement them over 8 years as a senior pastor and a few more as an associate outside CC. Otherwise I’m a very careful observer of longtime friends who are pastors outside my tribe, with whom I have relationship and can ask questions in this area and get feedback on success and failure.

    “Have you looked outside the realm of the Calvary neighborhood to find out if other church groups have found ways to define and develop oversight of
    Individual leaders , groups of leaders and churches
    simultaneously addressing both relational health and legal/ business accountability ?” – Yes. See above.

  16. The 2 entities need to split just as Paul and Barnabas did. End the fighting and move on in a more productive direction. All denominations have made splits and survived the consequences of missions, publishing and seminaries.
    One group can rename to The Evangelical Calvary Chapel.

  17. “The 2 entities need to split just as Paul and Barnabas did. End the fighting and move on in a more productive direction. All denominations have made splits and survived the consequences of missions, publishing and seminaries.
    One group can rename to The Evangelical Calvary Chapel.”

    MLD, most excellent observation and suggestion!

  18. I prefer a banana split myself.

  19. @16
    Yep.

    The Evangelical Calvary Chapel. LoL!!!

  20. Very interesting.

    I wonder what the role of Sandy Adams is all of this. Is he more in the mold of Wayne Taylor or part of the Don McClure / Joe Focht mafia?

  21. What tragically bitter fruit when the addiction to power causes people to place personality over principle and call it righteousness. Yuck.

  22. From what I’ve seen of him at the various senior pastor conference planning meetings, he seems more “in the mold of Wayne Taylor.” More like a “let’s get along”, “go along guy.” I wouldn’t be surprised if he may have some second thoughts about CCA. Remember, he wasn’t from the first generation of pastors like Focht, McClure, etc. even many of those from that generation are not overtly aligned with CCA, including Heitzig, Laurie, Bill Richie, Louis Neeley and notably Bill Gallatin among others.

  23. I worked for Pastor Chuck for many years at the word For Today, and starting our second radio station. What a great decade to spend time with he and Kay personally. We went to Israel together and cruised the Med. In all that time there was integrity. Down to every last cent. It’s the place where I came out of Mormonism to a blessed gospel meaage.
    Things began to go down hill when Broderson showed up. I had to work with him at times as he treated me like a nobody. I wasn’t a “somebody.” About that time he pushed out our blessed Romaine, Greg Laurie, Chuck Missler, and the list goes on and continues.
    Chuck held all employees responsible not to have situations that had the appearance of evil. Men and women employees were not to drive together, doors in offices were to remain unlocked, and widow blinds were to open..
    I use to take care of Chuck’s teaching masters. Clive was a teacher that shared that library space as his office. After three times of unlocking the door to bring or take masters Clive would have a young boy inside. I never suspected him of being gay. I told him that it looked bad and could bring problems. In hindsight I should have said something to Romaine. Now we find out that Clive lived with Broderson for six months.
    “The night has a thousand eyes!” The iceburg is rising!!! LP

  24. I hate coming home to this kind of crap.

    Pastor Lew Phelps…how do you justify the inference you just made about Brodersen using people no one has ever heard of in a situation none of us know a thing about?

    It’s disgusting.
    Repent.

  25. Amazing comments Lou. Lots of inferences and the like. Knowing your opinion of things, You probably wished Jeff Smith still called the shots. Hate to think what you thought of me during my eleven years there.

    P.s Romaine needed to retire and Chuck was intimately involved in reducing his responsibilities.

  26. Missler wasn’t pushed out, he was taken by the Nephilim…

  27. Jeff,

    I was hoping you were still there…

  28. “…Clive lived with Broderson for six months.”

    And this proves what, exactly?

  29. lol!!!

  30. “Clive played electric bass
    Played it with finesse and grace…”

    Waylon Jennings

  31. This has been a very long week…

  32. “We went to Israel together and cruised the Med. In all that time there was integrity”.

    So you saved enough money from your associate pastor’s salary to pay your way on a trip to Israel and to cruise the Mediterranean? If not, then how can you boast about integrity? Spending money on wonderful trips instead of helping those in need doesn’t sound like integrity to me… Also, are you not aware of Chuck’s past inappropriate relationships? Of all the things you guys have accused Brian of, implying that he is gay is asinine.

  33. Hey Lew

    According to a Missler article, you left CCCM in 1991 to go to Safe Harbor in Idaho. You weren’t even there when Brian returned from London. Or when Romaine finished his time and went home.

    Shame on you.

  34. Jeff does good work…

  35. Covered. Save yourself the time. He, like many of the CCCM hangeron’ers glomed all over Chuck to be “bus pastors,” while others actually did the work of that church and wouldn’t thrust ourselves on Chuck to force him to bring us.

    Go back to where you came from.

  36. I feel like Lew just walked into my living room, farted, then left… idiot!

  37. Covered. That last comment was for “Pastor” Lew.

  38. I knew that Jeff. We’re good 🙂

  39. “For it is not an enemy who taunts me— then I could bear it; it is not an adversary who deals insolently with me— then I could hide from him. But it is you, a man, my equal, my companion, my familiar friend. We used to take sweet counsel together; within God’s house we walked in the throng.”
    ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭55:12-14‬ ‭ESV‬‬
    http://bible.com/59/psa.55.12-14.esv

  40. Kevin

    Great scripture. On one level it makes me sad and I know very few people here would understand, but that was the Scripture Chuck used in the first of many emails we shared after he called me to ask why I was blogging against him on Phoenix Preacher some ten years ago and after I left his ministry.

    Not as a defense to all the things he has done, for many criticisms about him were true and worthy, but he did ask forgiveness from me about letting Jeff slander me and take my good name without stopping Jeff knowing allthewhile Jeff was lying, never commending me, and underpaying. He did thank me for what he called my eleven years of service to CCCM and him, and many other kind words full of grace…all unlike him in the years I was there. He actively sought to relieve my bitterness, even as he began that task with the scripture you mentioned.

    I will always cherish those emails between us….because it was so unlike him even as it was so unlike me.

  41. Hey Jeff,
    After moving to Idaho I was still an employee of CCCM until the station was sold much later. I came to business meetings for (KRSS 98.5FM) and board meetings when Pastor Chuck and I were on Chuck Missler’s board together. I’m simply stating what I know is true and I’m tired of seeing Chuck getting thrown under the buss along with Kay. She’s alive at 90 and we still talk and pray. Imagine how sad to see a work of God that flooded the world, and then see it sink into religion. The road to Rome is not for me. Wayne knows better. If Chuck had lived a few more months none of this would be happening!!!
    Lew Phelps also known as “Paul the Apostle” 😉

  42. Wow, Jeff, I had no idea. That Psalm just happened to be part of my evening reading in the Psalms tonight, and when I heard it, it struck me as somehow relevant to the topic of this thread. Blessings to you!

  43. “Lew Phelps also known as “Paul the Apostle””

    Lord, have mercy.

  44. Jeff,
    Here’s a much needed letter for CC Pastors to take to heart:
    Dear Brian,
    I was granted permission to send you this letter on behalf of myself and the other apostles. The Old Testament saints won’t have a say in this because they’ve ripped their heavenly apparel and are baffled and confused. It sounds much like the prayers that are coming here from many of the pastors under your guidance. They are also filled with confusion, you see. Perhaps I can help.
    I’ve heard that you’re encouraging the others to not spend so much time in the Old Testament because the New Testament is now, “The whole counsel of God.” Well, I tried to look at any bright side of that. I figured that when you order Bibles for the book store that the shipping costs will be reduced by 2/3s. And the really neat thing is that you’d all be spending more time in my publications! Wow! But then again you’d actually have to black out a good portion of my inspired writings because I was using the Old Testament scriptures to prove my point that indeed Jesus is the Messiah, and all, you see. I was convinced I was under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but perhaps He was having a bad day and all.
    You know, even Jesus may not have made a good follower of your New & Improved Calvary Chapel program because He too used the Old Testament as His authority. He even kept telling that old deceiver the Devil, “It is Written!” Remember when that snake told Eve, “Did God really say?” But then again at the time Jesus didn’t have the New Testament to rely on! He relied on that old Moses and the Prophets thing from a really, really, really long time ago!
    And poor Steven. He actually got a whole chapter to himself in Acts chapter 7. I guess we’re supposed to rip that one out too. After all he rehearses much of Old Testament history all throughout the entire chapter. Goodness, if he had just shared some New Testament things he had heard he may not have been stoned.
    And you know Brian, I always wondered why Dr. Luke never told us which stories Jesus told the guys on the road to Emmaus. All they said was that Jesus took them through the scriptures to prove who He was. And how wonderful that afterwards their hearts burned inside of them! But it appears you have found the Old Testament flame has gone out. How tragic, due to the fact that much of it has yet to be fulfilled! OR, Could it be that He wanted to encourage us to search the scriptures too?! OR … It could be that Jesus performed one of His greatest miracles as he propelled them through time and space showing them an NIV. You know, the Nearly Inspired Version. Kind of like your half hour radio program. “Back to Basics!” Honestly? How about, “Half Baked Tactics?” Actually, you ought to just call it the “Brian Broderson Hour.” It’s amazing how long 26 minutes can feel when the wall paper is even coming off the walls as you speak. Gorilla glue couldn’t hold it on for goodness sakes. You see? “Oh my!” I’m now moving my right hand outstretched with my fingers gently pointed down and twisting from my wrist to my finger tips, and saying, “Glory!” … and all, you see.
    Now, we know that Jesus already fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies concerning His first coming, and all. So maybe you’re onto something that the rest of the gang have all missed?! It’s just kind of odd to me as a Hebrew scholar, apostle, and servant of Christ … that that ancient Old Testament actually says more about His second coming and Kingdom on earth than the New Testament does. But then again, you know all and see all. Perhaps the Old Testament should be left up to the spiritual Elite, the wise and prudent, you see.
    Just remember that even Jesus, (the 2nd part of the Holy Trinity), relied upon His Father, the Anointing of the Holy Spirit, and the authority of the scripture. Isn’t it ironic that He didn’t come into power by riding His Father’s coat tails? It is Your Lord that told us,
    “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD of God.”
    It’s revealing to me that when Jesus said such an important truth that not one letter of New Testament had been penned. Yet!
    Brian, if you leave out the Old, then please leave out my letters too. I don’t want any part of this new program you’ve come up with. You are NOT going to also degrade my hard fought ministry and writings that include Old Testament references pulsating with life and try to take away any of my heavenly rewards. Use Ophrah’s stuff, or Dr. Phil. He even looks like one of Chuck’s cousins. Of course that may remind you of Phillip, and he had four daughters. And we’ve noted that you don’t especially like being around kids. Jesus sure did! And they loved Him too.
    You might consider watching that movie down there called, “The Firm” with Tom Cruise. Interesting analogies. Now, Tom’s not much of an Old Testament guy either but he thinks he’s going in the right direction. Even though he rarely sees his kids nor has earned their respect with all his fame. He knows your pain Brian. But you still have precious time left, unlike those in your target site. Don’t be a Saul … be a David, a man after Gods own’ heart who was guilty of sooo much. But we all love him because he truly loved God and allowed him to conform him into the “Man of God” that he was preparing. Could be the same with you and all!
    But, looks like your rewards are coming now! Wow! Does the congregation know? I’m telling you that Barnabus (we call him Barney up here), would have baptized me again and held me under for a while if I made that kind of cash. That’s the kind of plunder Matthew made when he was a tax collector for goodness sakes! But he got things right with God. “May His mercy endure forever.” Sorry, I used another Old Testament passage again, Brian. Oh! It’s a habit with me! Yet there again the Word tells us that “The Word of God Endureth Forever! But, … there I go again, quoting another ancient Hebrew book like it was inspired or something. It’s all Greek to me! Maybe you should be writing me a letter, but Fed Ex isn’t allowed to deliver here because God is Fed UP!
    Oh! Chuck just said, “Glorious!” What a smile that guy has! Wow, it’s almost as impressive as his hair doo!!! We’ve nick named him, “Curley Que!” Funny, up here we call Absolom, (the wicked son of David), who tried to have him killed,so that he could reign and have the power, and all. Well, we call him “Baldy!” Haha! Boy did he have a bad hair day! Sadly no one has been able to spot him in this awesome company. Sad indeed. What an incredible place God set him in (KING DAVID’S SON) WOWZER! Then he “ROYALY” blew it. By God’s grace may He help you all, still on earth during these last moments to remain loyal to your King, whose name is, “The Word of God!” He shall reign. You see! Oh! Isaiah already said that. Dumb ol’ me.
    What would Romaine think of that Wall Street salary? Of course, it’s not like the two of you were very close, huh? It must be tough when people have the ability to see right through you. Romaine was tough on the boys, but they loved and respected him. He kept them real and made them servants instead of becoming tyrants who didn’t like others outshining them! Like those weird mystical types that find Jesus on every page of the Bible! That was my dearest discovery in my life having known the scriptures! The light came on when I realized that He indeed is Lord and Savior! But why look way back to those dusty scrolls now? After all, I remember getting older, and a heavy Bible might just give you tennis elbow! You see? Maybe you have come up with something NEW! But I like what I heard Greg Laurie say, “if it’s true it’s not new, and if it’s new it’s not true.” Oh man, I wish I had come up with that one. But then again Greg’s fruit is a bit different from the accounting we see up here of yours. And we all know how close knit you and Greg are. He preaches some heresy too. Like saying that Jesus is coming in the clouds with Greg Laurie!” That’s not right. But then again we had to fire Greg for “outshining.”
    Hey, there’s this cool guy up here that hangs out with Chuck and all, (and like that faithful pastor he’s always been), I hear him filling Spurgeon in on the details currently on the big screen up here. Spurgeon told Chuck that,
    “The Bible isn’t ancient, nor is it modern, … IT IS ETERNAL!”
    By the way. PLEASE don’t destroy Pastor Chuck’s recordings of the Old Testament. They mean much to the people that he faithful taught through the entire Word of God during his decades of ministry.
    Lastly, the O. T. is 2/3’s of the Bible. Jesus is called, “The Word made flesh.” I wonder when He comes back if He’ll only be a third of a man? We call it “The Scriptures.” Half old, half new, all inspired according to Peter. Well, if we only need the last half, then maybe we only need to be half-filled with the Holy Spirit. Maybe that’s your problem. So we’ve prayed that if that be the case … that you are filled from the waist up. That way the Spirit of Truth will hopefully touch your heart and brain. Then again, perhaps you should be filled from the waist down … that’s where you seem to talk from!
    I must admit to you, that like Pastor Chuck, I also was ridiculed for teaching on the Rapture of the church that I received by revelation. I know that you’ve encouraged the Calvary pastors to cool it down, saying, “we might scare people away.” Well, I told my readers to encourage each other with these words concerning the rapture before your brilliant idea came down from the doctrine of the month club. You know I was called a doomer, gloomer, and a “scare tactic user.” But I always brought “God’s People” back to basics. For ours isn’t a message of despair, gloom and destruction. It is one of the most glorious times coming to planet earth. Pastor Chuck didn’t scare the sheep that God sent his way. He comforted them as he kept Jesus the main thing. And they weren’t scared about the rapture. In fact, they brought their friends who became Christians and filled the building you’re in … to overflowing. Wow, I was watching things happen back in Peter, Paul, and Mary’s day, you see. OVERFLOW! It must be difficult to watch for you as you watch this new and improved program not thrusting you into the “Big Time.” Oh!. Sadly many of the sheep are gone and many the under-shepherds under your watch are ready to open up another field where the sheep can be fed, and prepared as Jesus told Peter do for his precious lambs!
    It’s odd that you won’t speak on this blessed appearing of our Great God and Savior when it could happen so very soon! Perhaps not for 20 years, we still don’t even know up here, except that Jesus is at the door! You are a pastor, and in my day I warned my pastor friends,
    “For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness”
    Shouldn’t we be teaching our kids about this glorious “one time” radical event, and all? And then they’ll take that truth of the rapture to their next generation? Or is “watching and waiting” on hold? Brian … wake up … It’s still on the books. The open one. Not the hidden ones. I admit that God gave me new revelation called “mysteries not yet revealed.” They’re all hidden and all in the Old Testament as you’ll see that I’ve documented them in my writings. Even Daniel, (you know, the Old Testament prophet told us that some of his prophecies would be sealed until the end. It’s a shame that those pastors during the end that you shepherd are now encouraged not to proclaim Daniel’s words of Holy Writ. After all they are old and dusty, and some of your friends say that there were two Isaiah’s. Jesus didn’t think so, He quoted Isaiah from beginning to end. But back then Jesus didn’t have all the info and computers that we have. Perhaps you’re right and ol’ Daniel is out dated and no longer necessary! He should have made things easier for everyone and stayed in the Lion’s den. But even the lions had the understanding that they were in the presence of a true God fearing man! I’m sticking with Daniel instead of your new revelations where the only mystery is, “What in God’s Kingdom happened to you?” Demus may have been led astray by the world and his ego, but a good part of CC Pastors will not be. Galations 1 is one of my favorites. You might give it a re-read. After all it is in the New Testament. Please don’t be offended as I used Old Testament scriptures again to prove my points. But then again, I didn’t have your level of higher British learning. Is it true that their blood line is of heavenly royalty? Did Jesus and Mary Magdaline really get married and have children? You’re certainly not going to try that one on after Joel Olsteen preaches at the next Murrieta conference are you? Inquiring minds may want to know! I’m from the “Lost Tribe of Benjamin, yet It’s an amazing wonder that even when I was lost … somehow the Lord always knew where I was, and brought me home. Just like Israel back in the land today. I guess God always knew where they were. But Brian, there’s a lot of Brethren that truly don’t know where you are. And they care. It’s this weird thing Jesus bestowed us called “AGAPE LOVE.” We hope you have it. But it’s not coming out of your pores yet, or your mouth, or your teaching, or your life, or your family circumstances, but especially your heart. When I was on earth I had to judge my own heart all the time! Oh! How the Psalms got me through! SORRY!!! I did it again. I’d refer to Peter’s publications, but we didn’t get along to well at first. He treated me much like you treated Chuck Missler. He may have gotten Y2K wrong, but his heart sure was right!. WOW, you ought to see the pile of rewards and the jewels in that man’s crown! Your crown at this time looks like a “Burger King Crown,” should you be a wise virgin. You still have little time to upgrade it. Jesus wants you to succeed! He loves you greatly and paid for all of our sins and mistakes. We all love and care for you too brother! “Love covers a multitude of sins.” Now, there I go again offending you using that old text. I’m sorry, but being a Jew, it’s so hard to get away from, and all. We had our favorite Old Testament scriptures tied to our forehead, our wrists, and ingrained in our hearts. I can’t let it go, and neither do the men that are looking up to you. I even said of my Hebrew brethren,
    “of the Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God and the promises” Romans 9:4
    I can’t believe I just wrote another sermon while retired and eating angel food cake. And if I’d only known back then while writing to my Roman friends that the Old Testament wouldn’t be that important down the road. Certainly, I wouldn’t have used all those ancient references! OR … shazzaaam!!! Maybe I really was under a guiding hand as He used centuries of old promises to prove that He’s outside of time, you see, and that the old and new are just as fresh and new as in your day! Brian, the Holy Spirit freshly touches the hearts with the same words in the here and now… as if the ink hasn’t dried!!! It gives me dove bumps. Please don’t turn the dove into a raven … PLEASE!!! Those nasty birds were satisfied living off of dead carcasses. But the dove brought Noah and the gang Blessed News … just like Calvary Chapel used to!
    “give a listen to His story, hear the message that we bring, let His faith build up inside you, and lift your voice with us and sing. Accept Him with your whole heart! And use your own two hands. With one reach out to Jesus. And with the other … Bring a friend” – LOVE SONG!
    That’s what we’re doing with you. It’s blunt, but honest. We reach out to you Brian.
    Perhaps the reason that you never finished High school is that the administrators didn’t want you misleading the other students. Most of your fellow pastors won’t be misled either! Balaam’s donkey had that much wisdom! Imagine such a dumb animal rebuking a prophet of God with such a high and lofty position, and all, you see! That stupid donkey didn’t know who he was dealing with. But when the Spirit of God came upon that little donkey he was moved! The Holy Spirit must have filled him up from his front half as he spoke with his mouth, unlike speaking from his behind as you have mastered. In fact, you remind us of Jim Carey at times … without the humor! We can’t prove it from the scriptures, but we have a sneaking suspicion that the donkey’s name may have been, “Darby.” Who’d have known???!!!
    Most Calvary PK kids are excited about seeing the Lord they love. Maybe your kids are afraid of a father figure? Thank God they had a Grandfather and Grandmother that loved and prayed for them. By the way Kay is still alive. You and your wife might drop by and see her sometime. Maybe she’ll remember you. Oh! Thank you for finally, finally, finally making sure that Kay got a pension after all these years. I sure hope it didn’t cut into your salary.
    Brian, the Word is vital, Prophecy is the “Spirit of Jesus,” according to John the Revelator!!! Yet Jesus told us that men would know that we were His followers by our love for each other. That’s what made Papa Chuck different. Love use to burst forth from CCCM. But it’s everyone else’s fault that it’s now a revolving door. And now three years later we all hear you blame in on Chuck. Perhaps the Holy Spirit doesn’t want to be there either and the sheep know the voice of a shepherd rather they have all the worldly facts. And fled for living water and green pastures. Ask the other churches around. Chuck must have passed out invited to all those other churches while in bed when you weren’t recording his private conversations. You should have let his nurse call the hospice people when he was choking. But you wouldn’t let her for four hours. Wow! My Roman guards treated me better. Oh! Well, the authorities will deal with that. Thank God for sleep meds! Whew! Do you find it difficult finding sleep at night like I did a few weeks before I took that road to Damascus?
    Open your eyes! Like mine had to be … even though I had my spiritual merit badges and awards and live radio shows … and all. I was at the top man! And then for some reason, in God’s love my ministry came to an abrupt end. I’m glad it did because there was another end I was headed for where the climate isn’t so nice and all. Let the entire Word be your guide and the Spirit of God overflow you. We haven’t seen or heard it Brian, not in your life for a long long time. You have a way of even making the glorious parts of my book to the Ephesians read like Leviticus. (No offense Moses). There’s just no living water and the sheep are thirsty
    Please take some pointers from Chuck! Treat all your brothers the same. You only seem to show attention and compassion to the big boys with big numbers … and the little guys … you treat like peasants. ASK AROUND!!! Get out the Calvary list and call 30 guys that you really don’t know well, humble yourself, and ask them to tell you their honest feelings without the threat of loosing their standing with you and the important few. Whew!!!
    I warned God’s people, even 2000 years ago, under inspiration, of the end times apostasy. They weren’t easy words to pen … as this letter isn’t. Sadly your proving to be part of that dreadful Laodicean time. Thank God that many loyal to Jesus will not be led into that ditch with you. Chuck may not have been perfect, but he loved those he served, and DIDN’T swerve from the Bible. What did he say?
    “The Bible, The WHOLE Bible, and nothing but the Bible so help us God.”
    You’re not going to get everyone to be a blind fool. Those guys under you love you, but a good portion of them don’t trust you.
    It seems that you’ve also ripped out Matthew 18 and Galations 6:1-2. Joseph Smith penned their important book that now has over 3000 changes which are causing many of their followers to leave. It seems as if you are trying to convince the guys to delete 2/3s of their Bibles. That’s why Chuck never named any of his children Joe. Nice job Einstein on keeping the family pure and trying to desecrate 2/3’s of the book that we hold dear. The same one that David hid in his heart that he might not sin before God. Once again I’m sorry Brian, I’ve used the Old Testament. It kinda stays with you! Ya know? … Well!
    I must ask the question, are you joining up with Rick Warren next? Perhaps your next assistant pastor will by an Islamic transgender person whom we don’t know the original gender of. But it sure is popular down there! Are you adding a third bathroom in the Church? I hope not. Chuck’s been so happy since he’s been up here and we’re afraid it would break his heart. Kind of like his last hours on earth … you know.
    However, we all hope that you are not going to be amongst the five foolish virgins. They weren’t “watching and being ready” even though you know all and you see all! No oil. John shows us in Revelation 13 that the Antichrist will even ridicule those weird fundamentalists that taught the rapture and have an excuse for the event afterwards. You know the passage,
    “Then he opened in mouth in BLASPHEMY against God, (1) to blaspheme His name, (2) His tabernacle, (3) and those who dwell in heaven!” Revelation 13:6
    WOW! I wonder who they are? Could it be the five wise virgins and the rest of the saints? We sure hope you’re part of that company. The rapture is really exciting to pray on and study about. John said it’s purifying. I sure could have used that peace after I took part in Steven’s death. But I knew that when I repented that the Lord forgave me.
    Brian, very many of us are not observing any oil in your lamp. Calvary Chapel IS NOT dead. The Lord has reserved the faithful. He always does! But once again the Old Testament shows it over and over again with those that God uses! Get some oil, lay down your burdens, and come home. You’ll be accepted. Sitting behind “The Big Desk” may impress some, but that desk is about as important to the Lord as my spiritual trophies. ALL DUNG!!! And that office and desk won’t provide loving, devoted, and God fearing men that will stand with you, when just before the sight keep just the focus on the King of King and Lord of Lords!
    Oops, there I go again … But John did it too!!! Sometimes love has to be tough. Don’t deprive God’s sheep from what we’ve called over the centuries, “The Blessed HOPE!”
    By the way, we’ve always observed from here that Pastor Chuck changed with the times, with music, clothing, and technology. But the message never changed. He must have really taken my publication to the Galations to heart. That crazy visionary!!! After all, I reminded the Hebrews, “Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever.” Your other brothers are not looking to crown another crown prince. They have Jesus as their King. And for now, Pastor Chuck is still their leader! That must irritate you … that’s too bad. What wonderful guidelines he left for us in these last of times. You’ll have a difficult time convincing the other faithful through persuasive words that put the sheep to sleep, more than people that count sheep to find sleep. Oh! How wonderful a good night’s sleep is! Some of mine were in prison. The Lord Jesus was right there besides me. “I will trust in the Name of the LORD, blessed be His name!” Sorry there I go again.
    I’ll share with you what I shared with young Timothy in the second letter,
    “There is laid up for me the crown of righteousness which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. Be diligent to come to me quickly; for Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world” II Tim4:8-10
    Paul The Apostle

  45. Lew – All I can say is that it is game, set and match. For a second there I thought I was back on Prozac.

  46. Was that for real?

    I attend a CC and have kept my ears open for even a whisper of CCA or CCGN. Silence, which appears to be SOP. Glad to see the truth regarding timing revealed in the daylight.

  47. Someone needs to help Lew back to his room. Captain?

  48. Jeff,
    I’ve been to Israel 7 times and it didn’t cost the church a dime. WE LOVE ISRAEL! When I went with Pastor Chuck it was invitation with responsibilities as bus captain from Greg and Janette Manderson and Chuck. Would you turn down such a blessed trip? My highest service was being part of a great movement of God that’s now falling apart. But our fellowship stays within the confines of scripture. That’s where Chuck put the line before us, “It’s the Bible, the Whole Bible, and nothing but the Bible, so help us God!” He never let us put him on a pedistool, or told us to look to Jesus alone. He taught us to love and to trust in Jesus. I’ll stand up for him anyday! PLP

  49. Lew /Paul
    Your diatribe against and misrepresentation of Brian makes me wonder how you scored on the English portion of the SAT . You know where the test high schoolers to see whether they have the skills to read while connected paragraphs and understand the authors theme , content and purpose . After all has the friend in your head named Paul told you that He was a “minister of the New Covenant”?

    Brian was providing practical guidelines to remind pastors of the focus of our stewardship as ministers of the New Covenant . If you could not easily recognize that up; I would suggest picking up some remedial listening and comprehension skills from a tutor specializing in the developmental capacities of adolescents .

    Oh the understanding of Jesus conveyed by the Paul in your head was rejected by the Apostles and other church Fathers across several centuries when He told you Jesus was the 2nd part of the trinity.

    I do validate that you may have some valid relational issues and trauma of which Brian and others may be a part of or you are carrying the offenses of others that are feeling the same . The overall relational environment of the interpersonal relationships within the Calvary sphere is registering on the low joy and low trust side of things . The unhealed traumas of many shut down the emotional and spiritual capacities of many and vociferously quoting Scripture or retweeting the choice quotes of others won’t make it go away.

    In this over anxious frame of mind I understand that you like many are triggering big time and are experiencing emotions that you don’t understand and are projecting cause and blame onto others in an attempt to relieve the pain and provide a frame of reference in the confusion .

    Instead you can ask the One in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge to help you understand where He is in the situation and how to get your bearing and learn how to get your mojo on when it comes to reconnecting with others in the bonds of love and remaining in that state through the peace of the Spirit .

    He is Immanuel , God with us and believe it or not wants us to know that she is glad to be with us even in though we are in a state of being that is unpleasant to Him. Such is the unfashionable riches of His love . May you and others find healing love flowing from His open hands and outstretched arms that were once nailed to Calvary but are now extended in blessing even as He showed us that much when ascended into heaven prior to the outpouring of the Spirit.

    Oh if all knew how to practice returning to such and unifying together in such love!

  50. I laugh at the faster then I can type and see corrections of my embedded IPhone editor in my last post . 🤓

  51. Tonight would’ve been a good night for me to be a moderator. This captain would’ve made Lew walk the plank, but not until after he swabbed the piles of crap he left on our deck!!

  52. Lew

    Let me just leave it at this.

    You have dug yourself quite the deep whole if one considers your perspective, discernment and selective memories. So deep I believe that from here out we should only be speaking in Mandarin.

    I’m out.

  53. Yes Lew, I would imagine that Chuck never let you put him on a “pedistool.” The word you seem to have created could have two possible meanings. 1. A foot stool, or 2. Fecal matter that you have stepped in while barefoot.

  54. Pastor Lew Phelps @ 45: Dude, are you for reals? I don’t wanna say you’re coming off nuttier than a fruitcake, but well….. I don’t know you (or Brian personally for that matter) but I do know vicious and unfounded attacks when I see them. It’s bad enough to make them on your own, but you even think you are writing as the Apostle Paul would to Brian (or you think you ARE the Apostle Paul – I can’t quite tell…..) Off the charts!!!

    On a related general note, whenever I see people under the banner of Christianity that are literally just attacking and dividing and making mountains out of molehills and making issues where there really aren’t any, all I know is that’s about as far from the Jesus I know as can be. That’s my beef with the ODM’s – These self-proclaimed “defenders of the true faith” may manifest a lot of fruit, but it ain’t the good kind. The irony is they think they are truly defending Jesus and “true Christianity” from fakes and charlatans, all the while while they themselves are operating anti-Jesus in many respects and attacking everyone who doesn’t fit in their extremely narrow box. I really tire of sheep beating up on other sheep. And worse, under-shepherds beating up on other under-shepherds.

    Maybe rather than spending your time being so angry and bitter at other pastors and fighting wars that don’t need to be fought, you should instead, oh I don’t know, maybe go out with a smile on your face and share the love of Jesus with unbelievers? Or bake a cake for your neighbor? Just a thought…

    Seriously, I’m not trying to be mean (like I said I don’t know you at all) – but as we used to say in the 80’s, when it comes to some of this stuff, some people could seriously stand to “take a chill pill”.

  55. Chris,
    Obviously you need to see someone to assist you in your spiritual heath. You were not there at the time … I was. Tell that to the abused children! I won’t mention other names at this time that I know are involved. We didn’t have enough guards to watch every classroom. Chuck did the best he could to protect the many children both girls and boys. How shameful that many of you protect this Calvary Global thing as anything but apostate. Shall we name in alphabetical order the names of pastors and leaders that knew? it makes you “Ralph!!!”

  56. Hi Christ,
    I’m persuaded that you’re not a first or second generation Calvary. Too Bad … it was a precious time in church history. Why are you commenting on Brian or myself when you don’t know us. All I can say it that I beat him on the basketball court and ever since he’s been denying it. I have witnesses. Also since that time he’s seemed to get weird on his beliefs. You’d think that he and Rick Warren got together and met with Joel Olsteen. Are you sure you’re not an attorney like Jeff?
    And I’m Weird … really? LP

  57. I had the privilege of attending CC San Diego when it met in an old movie theater and visited CCCM several times. Loved the heart of the people and the verse-by-verse teaching. Fortunately I was outside the circles of leadership and those who knew them. I saw Jesus in the teaching and how the masses cared for each other. A lot of innocence there. Seeing familiar names in these pages, and hearing their thoughts expressed, makes me glad I was on the outer edges of their camp those days.

    It is truly amazing how God uses broken people–His mercy and grace, good beyond measure. I deliberately stay on the edges now–in those years since the 70’s I have had too many interactions with authoritarian leadership to want to be on the inside. I will continue to embrace what looks and sounds like Jesus–and turn away from that which does not. Blessings on all who care though I have little confidence that these men will ultimately do the right thing. And yet…

  58. How in the world did a kook like “Pastor” Lew get in CCCM, anyway?

    Sheesh..

    I was at CCCM for 2 years and relocated right before the idiotic statement “Brian doesn’t agree with teaching th full counsel of God” slander.

    He did teach thru the OT and NT…both.

    I wish the parrots would actually do research for themselves instead of be a willing part of the slander of a brother.

    Sheesh.

  59. Lew you claim to be doing the work of God, yet you do it in the spirit of the Devil…so sad..

  60. As how Lew gets to be a CC Pastor (especially in the Jesus People days), it’s not like they picked people who go to seminary or are mature believers, et. Find someone who has compelling testimony (drugs, alcohol, bikers, etc.) and send the out to plant a church.

    For every one that turned out alright under that system, seems like at least one or more does not….

  61. I see that Malcolm is still a sweetheart.

  62. Lew,

    What about Chuck Smith’s close ties and chummy interactions with Rick Warren, or his relationship and interactions with Kathryn Kuleman. The irony is these ODMs want to go after Brodersen, but seem like they give old Papa Chuck a pass…..

    As Michael has indicated, it’s about power. The Capo passed away and gave the crown jewel (CCCM) to his son-in-law. Some of the other underbosses and lieutenants felt that they did more or were more loyal to the family. This caused divisions which ultimate splits the syndicate, resulting in 2 or new more syndicate.

  63. wow!!! just when you think you have seen and heard it all…..so sad.

  64. Lew speaks the truth, but you lemmings are too blind to see!

    Que Sera, Sera

  65. Lew, it is appalling that you claim to be Paul of the Bible!!! It is insane. unstable and troubling , I am sad for you

  66. Dusty, if he said he was Lucifer you would believe him? C.S. Lewis said he was the Devil in Screwtape Letters

  67. I simply thought of what Paul would think looking at the issues surrounding CCCM. Put Moses, David, and even what Jesus would say to such a change going on at CCCM. The agape is gone! “And it’s very pain to see … it’s not the way it use to be!” – LOVE SONG – how prophetic
    I’ll stand up for Chuck and Kay anyday!
    Lew Phelps

  68. Chives, C.S. Lewis was a master wordsmith. Lew, on the other hand…

  69. Lew, Calvinists have never experienced true Agape…

  70. Good morning Captain Kevin, hope you have a lovely day. Still praying for you.

  71. Chives, seriously?!! Who said anything about Calvinists? Although I am not a Calvinist, I have had wonderful agape fellowship with several, so I don’t know where you get off making an idiotic statement like that.

  72. Thank you, dear Dusty! You as well.

  73. After having a mandarin orange and also having mastered my SAT, I’ve come to realize that I’m crazy. CCCM is what it’s suppose to be at this time! We’re not to be too clear on the rapture. And let’s not talk about Ezekiel 38 (even though it’s incredible beginning to form it’s beginnings around Israel. Apostate leadership in the church is almost protected like the Clinton’s. Certainly Brian won’t let us down like he did his wife, kids, father-in-law, and those who follow. I guess I’m just crazy. “Lets forget about ourselves and magnify the Lord and worship Him!” I can still hear Pastor Chuck singing that by himself up at the Twin Peaks Conference Center. We knew it was about Jesus. What’s it about now?
    Got Jesus?
    PLP

  74. Un. Be. Lie. V. Able.

  75. This reminds me of my favorite quote from Calvin;
    “I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels.”
    I wish the former caused the latter…

  76. Pastor Lew, please forgive me for calling you an idiot. I didn’t realize until after your first post that you were so mentally unstable.

  77. Feels like 2005 around here…

    Just be aware that Phelps has a lot of company and is a representative of old guard CC.

  78. Good morning Dan and Michael, hope you both have a wonderful day. Praying for you both.

  79. Good morning covered. Have a lovely day

  80. @62
    LoL!!!

    When I look at you, I see…

    Priceless!

  81. Why does it seem so often when Michael posts an article like this revealing some of the ugliness behind the Calvary Chapel curtain that those who come out of the woodwork to defend those factions of CC that look the worst are seemingly incapable to present rational, straightforward, and coherent arguments that aren’t rife with innuendo, overexaggerated guilt by association, and overall nonsense?

    Surely there are those who can present a better case? Those who show up here only seem to do more harm to their cause than help.

  82. Good morning, Dusty!

  83. Lew in 57: “Why are you commenting on Brian or myself when you don’t know us. All I can say it that I beat him on the basketball court and ever since he’s been denying it. I have witnesses”

    Well there you have it folks, all this vitriol gets traced back to a basketball game. I don’t want to be laughing right now, but I kinda am.

    Lew, I don’t personally know you. I do know Brian in the sense that I am fairly familiar with CCCM and also listen to his program sometimes etc, but do not know him personally. I can’t vouch or defend some of the specific personal experience things you’ve had with him. But I know for a fact that several of the charges you have leveled are baloney (not teaching through OT etc). And I really tire of Rick Warren association attackers – it was stupid when the ODM’s were doing it against Chuck and it’s stupid now against Brian.

    The reason I commented is because even without knowing you, I know the spirit of antichrist/the devil when I see it. Seriously, you had the gall to post an ultra long diatribe full of loads of bitterness and anger in the name of the Apostle Paul – that takes serious delusion friend.

    Look, I wish you well and I have nothing personal against you. Being totally serious and speaking out of love and concern for you: My encouragement to you would be to spend some time really embracing that fellowship with Jesus that you speak about as having been so clearly on display in early Calvary. Spend that good fellowship time with Jesus and let Him wash away all that bitterness that’s accumulated over the years towards other pastors. Because honestly, if Jesus was right that “out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks” you have revealed much about your heart here…and it ain’t showcasing the love of Jesus. Love & peace to you -Chris

  84. KevinH,

    So far my email from CC people is opposed to this story and the Bob Coy coverage by about 75/25.

    So far, no apologies from those who called me a liar and said there would never be a CC split.

    Welcome to my world…

  85. Michael,

    Opposition is one thing, but the lunacy? I hope at least some of those 75% in opposition are at least a little more stable.

  86. The great Jerry Jeff Walker wrote about my career reporting on CC…

    “Pissin’ in the wind, bettin’ on a losing friend
    Makin’ the same mistakes, we swore we’d never make again
    And we’re pissin’ in the wind, but it’s blowing on all our friends
    We’re gonna sit and grin and tell our grandchildren”

  87. Good morning Dusty! I hope that you are having a wonderful day!

  88. Pastor Lew,

    The wonderful thing about this blog is that lots of CC people read it.
    Some have remembered you.
    Everyone has a history, don’t they?

    I’m more than amused at the moment…

  89. Thanks for the prayers dusty!

  90. It’s funny that Paul spared the time to write a brand new epistle as long as the Psalms about Brian Brodersen of all things.

    Maybe he can be bothered to Tweet as to whether or not he wrote Hebrews, and if he’ll send down a complete commentary on Chuck’s teachings.

  91. BrianD, your #91 made my day! I truly believe in the gift of sarcasm and you my friend, are gifted. Thank you 🙂

  92. I think MLD made a great suggestion up there. Just go ahead and accept the formal split. One group can claim the “Evangelical Calvary Chapel” brand. The other group can claim they are the “Evangelical Calvary Chapel Reformed” group.

  93. just go ahead and split? amen…

  94. #93 Scooter

    A problem… when the next split happens with either group, the names are going to get terribly long…

  95. Lets not forget that Paul Smith (Pastor Chuck’s brother) and Don McClure served on
    CCOF. If (and a big IF) what they and others state is true about Brian Brodersen than by the standards Phoenix Preacher advocates Brian is disqualified to pastor. However if
    (little if) what Paul, Don and others state is not true than whatever positions they hold they should resign.

  96. I just read Taylor’s 10 page letter – well written. I have 2 questions / points
    1.) Taylor speaks of the split as past tense. So what’s the big deal if the split has already been made? The divorce has been judged – are they just waiting for the property settlement?
    2.) Is Calvary Chapel so shallow that the whole enchilada is conferences and web sites?

  97. It’s unfortunate we have a split with Calvary chapel churches after the passing of Pastor Chuck Smith.
    I have read the reason for the split. Pastor Brian Broaderson wanted to move away of the type of biblical teaching by Pastor Chuck brought to Calvary chapel that drew thousands to the Word of God. Brian wanted to cater to this young generation by not teaching the whole counsel of God, concentrating on the New Testament and going easy on bible prophecy – a moving away from Pastor Chuck biblical teaching.
    What is Pastor Chuck teaching? Teaching the whole counsel if God. What is the whole counsel of God? It’s teaching from the book of Genesis through the last book of the Holy Bible – book by book, chapter by chapter and verse by verse. The Apostle Paul said in Acts 20:27 I have not shunned the whole counsel of God. What does God says about the whole counsel of His Word? Jesus Christ said in Matthew chapter 4 verse 4, “men shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that progress from the mouth of God.”
    My family and I are blessed to have Pastor Derald Skinner as our pastor and blessed that Calvary Chapel Pearl Harbor is a part of Calvary chapel association (CCA) that continues the path of biblical teachings by the late Pastor Chuck Smith.

  98. Melvin, you have read only one side’s version of the reason for the split. Also, how is it you know that the whole counsel of God equates to teaching verse by verse from Genesis through Revelation?

  99. Cc doesn’t teach word by word, verse by verse chapter by chapter book by book….they like to say they do but they scip whole sections….bending the Word to prop up the pastor. They should do more than split they should shut down. Ugh!

  100. I find it curious that virtually all posters on this thread that expressed their opinions on Brodersen and CGN have failed in every instance to address the content of Wayne Taylor’s letter.

    For instance Marvin, one of your seminal issues is whether the “whole counsel of God” is being taught. That being the case, wouldn’t you think that the CCA leadership council should conform their dealings to the image of Christ and His teachings, as opposed to using “misrepresentations” (as Wayne states), failing to be gracious, being dishonest, having complete integrity, etc. One would think placing such an emphasis on this distinctive would have as at least one purpose that it would impart Godly character.

    If we agree here, how do you reconcile you and your senior pastor being aligned with CCA, yet having such failings that seem integral to the workings of its leadership?

  101. Melvin – can you point to a biblical example of Jesus or any of the apostles teaching verse by verse? I don’t think it was done.

  102. Jeff, Right!?!?

  103. Jeff @ 101 – I addressed the letter and asked questions.

    The actual ins and outs of what Brodersen did / does is not so important to us outsiders.

  104. Jeff – my #97

  105. When Paul made his statement to the Ephesian elders the bulk of the New Testament hadn’t been written yet.

    Thanks for playing, please try again…

  106. Jeff,

    Thank you.
    I have heard every possible reason, all day long, of why they don’t have to deal with the actual content of the letter.

    Those who want to believe anything else but the truth simply refuse to engage.

    Me…I’m taking a nap.

  107. Covered, it’s good to see you.

    It’s not a spiritual gift, but if I were a little more irreverent, I could say that I was being Snarky for Christ 😉

  108. Hi briand…good to see you!

  109. Dusty

    Actually my rabbi did teach verse by verse through the first five books of the Torah. But I think the theological reason was that his eyesight was poor and he couldn’t skip all over the place and therefore used a Dodger scorecard to make his place from week to week.

    MLD

    Answers to your questions

    1. There was/is a settlement to the divorce as you put it. CCA gets to keep their name until CCCM slaps them with a cease and desist preventing them from using “Calvary Chapel” in it. CC Philadelphia is responsible for alimony payments to Don McClure for support.
    All assets, property, etc. belong to CCCM and its congregants as CCA owns virtually nothing except their website and the ball point pens they hand out to their SP’s at their conferences

    2. All I can say to no. 2 is that I think you need to take a class or two in cultural sensitivity. Your use of “the whole enchilada” is racist at its worst and at a minimum is offensive to the 0.015% of my DNA which is Hispanic, not to mention how Mexican restaurants would feel about it, including South of the Border and El Toritos. (Sorry as a SDSU supporter the “Azrec Warrior” insanity has gotten to me.

  110. Jeff – as we both hail Jewish families, allow me to restate it to the whole Matzo Ball. 🙂

  111. Much better my man. Did your bubba make them big and light?

  112. MLD

    Wish I waiting for a table now at Factor’s or Katella Deli.

  113. Big and heavy. Sherman’s Deli in Palm Springs has them recipe down pretty good.

  114. Yer killing me. We could have some soup, and a nice pastrami, corned beef triple decker on rye. Then when we are through, it’s across the street for a schvitz at the Palm Springs Spa…but it’s now gone I understand.

  115. I don’t know that the schvitz is gone, but the casino is still there.

  116. Wow! I thought “Paul the Apostle” was sarcastic, but you guys take the cake (angel food cake and all!)
    Sounds as if some of you are blowing hot air in the wind, kinda like Broderson’s sermons!

    Footprints – here’s one for you that hopefully will inspire you to get off your spiritual behind:
    BUTT PRINTS IN THE SAND

    One night I had a wondrous dream
    One set of footprints there was seen
    The footprints of my precious Lord
    But mine were not along the shore

    But then some ‘stranger prints’ appeared
    And I asked the Lord, “What have we here?”
    “Those prints are large and round and neat,
    But Lord, they are too big for feet.”

    “My Child,” He said in somber tones,
    “For miles I carried you alone.
    I challenged you to walk in faith,
    But you refused and made me wait.”

    “You disobeyed, you would not grow,
    The walk of faith, you would not know,
    So I got tired, I got fed up,
    And there I dropped you on your butt.”

    “Because in life, there comes a time,
    When one must fight, and one must climb,
    When one must rise and take a stand,
    Or leave their butt prints in the sand”

    AMEN! Praise the Lord, and as Chuck would say, “Oh my, MARANATHA … and all!”

  117. *cues Twilight Zone*

    Wow.

  118. “Pastor” Lew,

    You like to sling mud.

    Turns out that you have a past yourself.

    Shall we discuss that?

  119. Butt prints in the sand…. sounds like a Jimmy Buffett song.

  120. BrianD and Dusty on the same day…long time readers should be feeling very nostalgic…good to have them both here.

  121. For newer folks, BrianD created and curated the Linkathon! and was a very able moderator for many years.

    Dusty ran the prayer thread and was also an able moderator for many years.

    God has always blessed us with good teams…

  122. Jimmy Buffett? That’s Blake Shelton’s new release! Or perhaps an old Merle Haggard tune!

    “My sheep hear my voice and will not follow a stranger” – Jesus of Nazareth

  123. “You disobeyed, you would not grow,
    The walk of faith, you would not know,
    So I got tired, I got fed up,
    And there I dropped you on your butt.” – Not Jesus

    “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it?” – Jesus

    “Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin that I had lost. Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” – Jesus

    “And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring quickly the best robe, and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. And bring the fattened calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate. For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.’” – Jesus

  124. Event though the complete New Testament was not completed when Paul made that statement in Acts 20:27, He would have meant Genesis through Revelation, book by book, chapter by chapter and verse by verse. In Luke 24:27 we are told that Jesus Christ beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in ALL THE SCRIPTURES the things concerning himself.” So if the counsel of God is the Scriptures and the whole of the Scriptures ultimately point us to the life and work of Jesus Christ, the whole counsel of God is also referring to the whole plan of God for humanity.
    In Matthew 4:4 Jesus said, “It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by ever word that proceeds from the mouth of God.” That’s the whole counsel of God.
    Calvary Chapel Pearl Harbor and the other Calvary church that belong to the Calvary Chapel Association (CCA), teach the whole counsel of God, “that we should no longer be children tossed to and from and carried by about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting” (Ephesians 4:14). The temptation for teachers, parents and Christians workers is to share only certain topical messages.
    That is why it is important for churches to go through the Bible from Genesis to Revelation – not skipping any part, but dealing with every book chapter and verses. This is also abiding in God’s word in Matthew 4:4.
    One response telling me, you only one side of the story. What the other side have to offer if they do not want to go through the whole counsel of God???
    I’m not a Pastor nor an elder in my church. I am a servant of Jesus Christ. A born again Christian saint that accepts and believe the simplicity of the Bible.
    Look, when we all get all heaven, all our questions will be irrevlent. There will be no religion, no spliting, but peace at home with our Lord Jesus Christ. Praise the LORD!

  125. Melvin,

    Brian Brodersen has never said he did not believe in teaching the whole council of God.
    That is a lie propagated by his enemies.
    He has said that it is more fruitful to teach the New Testament than slog through levitical law.
    I agree.
    Chuck taught a topical message every Sunday morning, by the way.

    You could actually teach the “whole council of God” using only the book of Isaiah or one of the Gospels…

    You seem like a sincere believer…but you are schooled in one tradition and that tradition is very young in the history of the church.

    Brian is your brother and sincere as well…go in peace.

  126. dusty and briand!!!

  127. I don’t see how teaching the whole counsel of God can be interpreted as an instruction to start at Genesis 1:1 and proceeding to teach one verse at a time thru Rev. 22:21 … Particularly since every book in our canon was without verse designations when written… there are many, perhaps, who for lack of scholarship or for sake of a simple way to organize, choose to do this… I have no problem with that, but their teaching could not be in depth… at least it wouldn’t for the first couple times thru the cycle
    That said, IMV it might serve better than a Sunday “how to” succeeded … or a lecture on denominational dogmas …

  128. Yes, I will second the grateful recognition of the sighting of Dusty and BrianD!

  129. Canon was not divided by chapter either. And the books the themselves were organized in a specific way (not chronological). Besides, as one goes through the OT prophets and the histories (1 and 2 Kings, 1 and 2 Chronicles) you will have to be doing a lot of cross-referencing between the 2 book types to anyway. So one could argue that one is preaching the whole counsel of God when you cover the relevant history books and OT prophet books concurrently.

  130. One more thing.

    This verse-by-verse approach that CC seems to claim or at least brag they invented has been done by the church for centuries.

    It is called a Lectionary.

  131. Lew Phelps … your comments are filled with strife, invective and un-truths/partial-truths, and look nothing like Christ, whom you claim to represent as a “pastor”. In all sincerity you need to repent and change your ways, because your current path will not lead to life/flourishing, or anything that resembles God’s kingdom.

    And in all honestly, your comments also come off as sounding as if you’re not entirely well or stable, mentally. (I mean in all seriousness…you spent/wasted 4500 words on a silly/unproductive letter, filled with gibberish … who does this???)

  132. I was going to comment . Better that I just pray and keep focused upon Jesus , myself and the people I am called to build His community with in the midst of His Kingdom.

    “Let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity. 13 Till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. 14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership. 15 Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all. 16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. “

  133. Wow! This thread reminds me of the “good ole days”!

  134. I’m no fan of CC on either side but I support Broderson suing CCA with Focht and McClure to cease and desist using the CC name. That’s what Chuck would have done. Focht should be ashamed of himself.

  135. Joe is the most balanced pastor I’ve known and a fantastic preacher and Bible teacher. Of all the board members of CCA I trust him the most! He’s rock solid “old guard” as I was called recently on this loving site. I’m glad to be part of the old guard. The new isn’t very impressive at all. If I lived in Philly that’s the church that I’d be in.
    PLP

  136. IMO, the split was necessary and good. I was on the roster as a CC for 20 years but didn’t attend a conference for years. While I am no longer a CC pastor, CGN has allowed me to be included in their ranks. Being a CCA affiliate neither helped or hurt me or my church. And being a CGN affiliate with neither hurt nor help me.

    I think Lew needs to get back on his meds.

  137. Birds of a feather flock together. I used to love Joe and went to his church for years but lunacy can only get us so far in the Christian life. Also humility is a trait that is hard to come by in the midst of legalism and arrogance. More concern if you go to a sports bar for a casual drink than protecting from the Bob Coy types in their midst. The way Joe and Don handled Wayne Taylor is beyond disgusting. Joe has not accountability on the local level in choosing his own board yet at the same time has the gumption to start taking over other regions in CC. This is beyond the pale. Dangerous stuff.

  138. Seriously,
    Lew Phelps, you really need to have your mental health examined…you honestly come accross as not stable (or believable/credible/honest/trustworthy).

  139. Good to see you again Dusty!

  140. Lew, would you ask the FauxApostle Paul if he’d deign to provide some extra-biblical commentary on Jesus and His allegedly using our circumstances and our behinds to teach us Some Very Important Life Lessons?

  141. God bless you all my new friends. How beautiful that we live in a country were we can disagree agreeably. May God bless America and a President that does what he says. He went from Anglican to Methodist. He’s making some progress for sure!
    Happy Thanksgiving!

    “It’s a HUGE holiday and in our family it’s TERRIFIC”

    PLP 🙂

  142. A very Happy Thanksgiving to you all. . .

    Although there is a “split” with Calvary Chapel; a lot of questions being ask and a lot of good responses…just remember, as we all looked upwards and wait and hear “The Trump of God” for the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ to take all of us (born again Christian saints) home to heaven… when we all are there, remember this:

    “ALL OUR QUESTIONS WILL BE IRREVELENT”

  143. […] UPDATE NOTE (11/17/2017) – It’s worth reading a recently released letter from Wayne Taylor to Calvary Chapel pastors on his removal from the CCA, if you’re interested in the inside-baseball politics that ignore Jesus’ prayer in John 17. You can access that letter here: http://michaelnewnham.com/wayne-taylor-cca/. […]

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