The Weekend Word: Revelation 1:7-11

You may also like...

21 Responses

  1. Is it possible to see judgement day as the day of making things right rather than payback? When the knee bows (after seeing Him face to face) will God not be satisfied? Hebrews: 9. 27. Inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this, judgment, – Bible Offline
    Does your doctrine allow that God will permit those who fall short to experience eternal torment after death, but not repentance? Justice could be making things right in the sense of bringing full understanding of failure and repentance in my opinion.

  2. Michael says:

    Richard,

    I like the way you think…

  3. Michael says:

    Is God not present only in the bread and wine,but in the church itself?

    “Where two or more are gathered”…

    This is a fine study, MLD…

  4. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Richard, but what of those who continually deny, rebel and lead others astray?
    Lazarus and the rich man sees to oppose you total reconciliation position.

  5. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Thank you Michael.
    I couldn’t say all the ways Jesus might be present, but my point was he hides himself – in this case in the bread and wine.

  6. Michael says:

    MLD,

    Understood.

    I would expect that from a Lutheran and as an Anglican I can say the amen and add the church… 🙂

  7. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I went back and looked at the incident with Lazarus, the rich man and Abraham and it seems at this point that the rich man fully understands who all the players are, what the gospel message is and what his plight is.
    He wants the gospel preached to his sons so they will not experience his torment and doom. The rich man understands that the law has been enacted on him.
    If we turn to universalism, then the law has not ever been acted on. I think the rich man will bend his knee and and accept the punishment from a just God.

  8. John 20:29 says:

    Richard and Michael, rest easy and trust in God’s perfection – He isn’t on the Throne of heaven simply because He’s tougher than all the rest 😊
    Who will be assigned to perdition is God’s to decide… Our job is to make sure that everyone knows that for the human race, it is appointed once to die (physical death)and after that? Judgement. No do overs, no someone stole my Bible or any other land excuse we might try…
    Our blessed, very blessed, assurance is that God is perfect and that includes His justice – there will not be one single human being judged unfairly – not my precious children, not my grouchy neighbor, not even the Herods or Pilate…
    I came late to appreciate how rich and reassuring the attributes of God are… I don’t think the devil wants them taught to us, but for the life of me I don’t understand why they are not taught with great emphasis and focus to us pew sitters – we’re saturated in teachings on grace, we gratefully grovel as forgiven sinners, but oh how it would help to understand more clearly how perfect is the holiness of God … Or so it seems to me… It was that for me

  9. John 20:29 says:

    Not “land” excuses… lame ones, you stupid tablet! I corrected you once. 😐

  10. Jean says:

    I think it’s possible to reject the grace of God in Christ. But, I think Jesus is more merciful than many Christians imagine. In other words, I think rejecting Christ takes a lot more effort than many people think.

  11. Jeffrey W Pautz says:

    Nice post MLD!

    Here are a few of my thoughts:

    10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day.
    John receives the vision during the Sunday Service.

    #1 Richard. Does the teaching you indicate offer a second chance to someone who died in unbelief? If so, when would sin be no more? I have the same question as MLD in #4. I hold that repentance and faith in Jesus are available up to the death of the body. Then I am sealed. The judgment of Hebrews 9:27 is on the basis of my faith in Jesus received before my death. Those with faith in Jesus will remain with Jesus. Those without faith in Jesus have what is recorded in Revelation 21:8 etc. I think this is MLD’s Lazarus position mention in #4 and #7.

  12. MLD I think ultimately the Creator will sort out who inherits eternal life. Based on my understanding of His nature the justice we see will be placing blame where it should be and compensating for abuses suffered. When I understand the impact of my sin on others fully, as I believe we all will, I will understand the depth of my sin and the magnitude of the Grace. God will sort out what was from bad parenting or bad discipleship. Some might be so hard that they still refuse to acknowledge that grace. I see a judgement that takes all influences into account. Abraham will have offspring as numerous as the sand of the seashore, as the stars of the cosmos.
    The point of the Lazarus parable was about how people come to faith not eternal destination.

  13. You die and then you are judged. It seems to me that you have to be “alive” to face the judge. This Judge is not willing that any should die and takes no pleasure in the suffering of the wicked.

  14. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Richard – I hope we don’t go too far afield here as this is only a small portion of this passage today but…
    1.) I agree that God will sort it all out and he has told us how – even so with the Rich Man’s sons, they must come in the prescribed manner or face the doom of their pops.
    2.) God may take no pleasure in the suffering of the wicked, just as I took no pleasure in the suffering of my kids when I disciplined them — but I still did it.
    3.) Who gets judged? I say that the saved have already been judged at their baptism – John 5 says “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”

    But the passage – and remember this is the same John who wrote Revelation. is followed by “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.”
    Somewhere else it speaks – and I think it is John – about Jesus’ sheep hear his voice – which I assume projects out to there are some who do not hear his voice who are not his.

  15. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jeffrey – thanks
    I think you are right about John and the Sunday Service.

  16. John 20:29 says:

    One really doesn’t look very nice telling another human that eternity is a reality, a two destination reality: heaven and hell. “Just who do you think you are telling me that? You’re a grouch, impatient and I’ve caught you in a lie or two! You’re no better than me!”
    The thing is, it is true.

    If one is exposed to the Word, the Truth and doesn’t take it seriously, I don’t think that God makes allowances for disrespect – some of the nicest, kindest, most likeable people in my memory have taken the stand, “if God wants me, he knows where he can find me…”. I pray and I sorrow for them. ..

    Some real stinkers , on the other hand, do worship the One true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit… kind of makes me hope there’s a purgatory (don’t think there is)

    Those people who have come and gone with no revelation of God… is there such a condition? Only God knows…. God’s justice is righteous and is, therefore perfectly fair – repeating myself… We can trust Him

    Pontificating all done. 😀. God keep

  17. JD says:

    He’ll be comin’ in the clouds when He comes…….
    He’ll be ridin’ on a white horse when He comes…….
    And we’ll be caught up to meet Him when He comes…….
    He’ll kill the ‘ol red devil when He comes…….
    And we’ll all have brand new bodies when He comes…….
    Yes He’s comin’ in the clouds when He comes…….

    Verses from the kids ministry version that I wrote some time ago, sung to the tune of “She’ll be Coming ‘Round the Mountain”; which is reportedly derived from an obscure Christian song “When the Chariot Comes”.
    Not meant to be a serious doctrinal statement (before someone jumps all over me), but a fun (really fun) Sunday School hoot. 🙂

  18. John 20:29 says:

    And everyone shall see Him when comes
    And he’ll be bringing grandpa with Him
    When He comes
    Yes and He’ll be bringing grandma also
    When He comes
    And theyll all be riding horses with Him
    When He comes….
    And we’ll alll bow down to meet Him
    When He comes
    And Michael’s got Miss Kitty
    When He comes
    With Chester running after
    When they come

    Sorry, JD – but it is a fun song

    Merry. Christmas to all while we’re waiting
    for Him to come. 🎅

  19. MLD We can disagree. One of us might be right or we could both be wrong. Just consider the John 5 verse through my lens.

  20. JD says:

    A cyber hootenanny and a Merry Christmas to all! Found it here:
    http://ingeb.org/spiritua/owhowill.html

    O, who will drive the chariot
    When she comes?
    O, who will drive the chariot
    When she comes?
    O, who will drive the chariot,
    O, who will drive the chariot,
    O, who will drive the chariot
    When she comes?

    King Jesus, he’ll be driver when she comes,
    When she comes . . . .

    She’ll be loaded with bright Angels
    When she comes . . . .

    She will neither rock nor totter,
    When she comes . . . .

    She will run so level and steady,
    When she comes . . . .

    She will take us to the portals,
    When she comes . . . .

  21. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Richard – to your comment @ #1 – “Is it possible to see judgement day as the day of making things right rather than payback?”

    Payback is a loaded word, but is it possible that what you call ‘payback’ is in actuality ‘making all things right?’
    When Jesus speaks, are the soils hypothetical? Are the tares or the goats just hypothetical? Is there an actual difference between Wheat / Tares or Sheep / Goats?

    I see Jesus making pretty definite claims about who he is and the consequence of not believing his testimony
    John Three 31-36 — John Eight 13-18 — John Fourteen 6

    This takes on great importance as we listen to Jesus speak to his post Pentecost church (not the general public, not the uninformed – but his church) in the next two chapters in Revelation – and the impact of false teaching coming into the church.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.